Corsairfoxfouruncle Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 Can anyone tell me any major differences between these two variants ? Im looking for an early AV-8A but my only option is the ancient Hasegawa kit in 1/72. I can get a basic Airfix starter kit of an RAF GR.1 though ? Can i use the GR.1 with some minor work or is it to different from the early AV-8A's ? Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e8n2 Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 It seems to me that there might be some minor detail differences, but externally they were virtually identical. When the RAF went to the GR3 that is when they really started to diverge from the earlier standard with the AV-8A. Later, Dave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbit Leader Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 Might be just confined to the ejection seat and the AV-8A had that spikey antenna on the upper mid fuse. Cheers.. Dave 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tramatoa Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 There is an ex-USMC example in the IWM North in Salford, free to get in but suspended from the ceiling in the main hall so tricky to photograph. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Des Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 See Dave Fleming's post on the recent Italeri Harrier re-release , No.185 at 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 The GR.1 and AV-8A are essentially the same aircraft. The biggest external difference was the large dorsal aerial, and ejection seat is different as the USMC used the Stencel seat. Best to use good references when you are building it. the current release of the Italeri kit is boxed as a GR.1 but is based on their AV-8 kit and has that big aerial, and possibly the right seat, it's a nice little kit. The modern Airfix GR.1 would also be a very good basis and is also boxed as an AV-8A option. The Esci, Italeri and Fujimi kits are much older but are still very good representations of the Harrier, they all came in GR.1 and AV-8A boxings. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selwyn Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 The AV8A did not have the RAF INAS moving map display. Selwyn 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 The Stencil seat was adopted after the early deliveries, possibly not very soon after either. I'm not sure when the large aerial was adopted. I recall an early Titanium example arriving on my desk at Kingston some time after the early deliveries, but can't confirm this as being the same aerial. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 (edited) Dennis, I think you can get away with using a GR1 kit to do a Marine AV-8A. AV-8A's had a Stencil SII instead of a MB Mk 9 bang seat; there was also a long dorsal antenna, and the cockpit layout was different due to U.S. radio equipment and other items being substituted for the British units. Many Marine Harriers were also upgraded to AV-8C standard with an uprated engine and the deletion of the PFO camera in the nose, and I think also the installation of formation or 'tape' lights. If you can find an Esci or Italeri AV-8A or GR1, they are very nice and have much finer scribing and panel line detail than the new-tool Airfix Harrier. Mike Edited August 17, 2019 by 72modeler corrected spelling 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 15 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said: Can anyone tell me any major differences between these two variants ? Im looking for an early AV-8A but my only option is the ancient Hasegawa kit in 1/72. I can get a basic Airfix starter kit of an RAF GR.1 though ? Can i use the GR.1 with some minor work or is it to different from the early AV-8A's ? Dennis Dennis, a bit of extra AV.8A info, I hope it helps. John 2 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 Two more, John 1 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsairfoxfouruncle Posted August 17, 2019 Author Share Posted August 17, 2019 Many Thanks John, 👍🏻 those will definitely come in handy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 @canberra kid John, I thought you were the Canberra Kid, not the Harrier Honcho! I guess I got the seat type wrong, but it's amazing how supposedly trustworthy sites have incorrect information, as the two print references I had both listed the Stencil S II as the EJ seat. I have saved this thread as a reference for doing a correct AV-8A. I'm sure Dennis appreciates your taking the time and effort to gather and post this information, as do I. Mike 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 It's interesting to note that the very early AV-8As delivered had the same instrument panel and cockpit as the GR.1, they also lacked the dorsal aerial, and had the Mk9 seat fitted. I seem to remember reading that this was to get deliveries to the USMC as soon as possible. I'm guessing the 'baseline' in Johns superb manual extracts above refers to the change of cockpit equipment. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 18 hours ago, 72modeler said: @canberra kid John, I thought you were the Canberra Kid, not the Harrier Honcho! I guess I got the seat type wrong, but it's amazing how supposedly trustworthy sites have incorrect information, as the two print references I had both listed the Stencil S II as the EJ seat. I have saved this thread as a reference for doing a correct AV-8A. I'm sure Dennis appreciates your taking the time and effort to gather and post this information, as do I. Mike LOL! I like the sound of the that Mike 'Harrier Honcho' has a ring to it! but I'll stick to Canberra's, it just so happens occasionally I have some bit and bob's on other stuff too. The Stencil S II seat could have been in the AV.8B's? John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 15 hours ago, 71chally said: It's interesting to note that the very early AV-8As delivered had the same instrument panel and cockpit as the GR.1, they also lacked the dorsal aerial, and had the Mk9 seat fitted. I seem to remember reading that this was to get deliveries to the USMC as soon as possible. I'm guessing the 'baseline' in Johns superb manual extracts above refers to the change of cockpit equipment. James as you say it looks like the first few were strait out of the box GR.1's, the Manual's contain details and procedures for the UK cockpit and the Mk.9 seats, it would be interesting to know if this first batch were 'updated' to full AV.8A configuration, or scraped? John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sloegin57 Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 On 17/08/2019 at 13:47, Selwyn said: The AV8A did not have the RAF INAS moving map display. Selwyn Neither did the first batch of GR.1's up to at least XV762. These were slowly upgraded in the Retrofit facility at Wittering. The last 4 went through in the early/mid 70's. They were known as "Mod 9" aircraft. 7 hours ago, canberra kid said: James as you say it looks like the first few were strait out of the box GR.1's, the Manual's contain details and procedures for the UK cockpit and the Mk.9 seats, it would be interesting to know if this first batch were 'updated' to full AV.8A configuration, or scraped? John The first batch of AV-8A's (158384 - 158395) were to all intents and purposes Harrier GR.1A being equipped with Pegasus 102 engine. They initially equipped VMA-513 at MCAS Beaufort, South Carolina and all were in Gloss finish, subsequent batches were Matt and were fitted with the Pegasus 103 engine (Harrier GR.3 standard [pointy nose]) None carried the Tactical VHF aerial on the spine. After upgrade, I believe that they later served with VMA-231. EDIT :- The 11th and twelfth aircraft from the first batch were both fitted with the Pegasus 103 for trials in the UK and were transported to the USA as such. At least one Harrier GR.3 was equipped with the tactical VHF aerial and associated equipment for trials in RAFG in 1976. This was XV810 "XX" of 20 Sqdn. The trials failed and were stopped but the aerial remained. ALL Harrier/AV-8A/TAV-8A aircraft were built with fittings to be equipped with any assortment of aerial. MCAS Beaufort 1972 7th aircraft, 1st batch VMA-231 MCAS Beaufort Units re-equipment 1972 Harrier GR.3 (Post Phase 4 conversion) XV810 20Sqdn "XX", October 1976 HTH Dennis 5 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 Dennis, Great photos! Thanks for posting them. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 Amazing, I've been into Harriers for along time and studied god knows how many pictures, but haven't seen the GR.3 with the spine aerial before! Some great posts on here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 20 hours ago, canberra kid said: ...it would be interesting to know if this first batch were 'updated' to full AV.8A configuration, or scraped? My understanding is that the early Harriers got into a lot of scrapes! Displaying my lack of Harrier knowledge, the "ferry tips" are interesting- were they actually used much? And finally, love the shot of Harrier, Skyhawk, and Phantom! bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsairfoxfouruncle Posted August 19, 2019 Author Share Posted August 19, 2019 17 hours ago, sloegin57 said: MCAS Beaufort Units re-equipment 1972 I really love this photo, its the 1st time I've ever seen a sidewinder in that Dark grey. Ive seen them in lighter grey's, but this looks to be a match for the RAF Dark sea grey of the camouflage. I now know how i will do my loadout thanks for the photo. Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hook Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 5 hours ago, gingerbob said: Displaying my lack of Harrier knowledge, the "ferry tips" are interesting- were they actually used much? Not very widely. Their best known use was in the Transatlantic Air Race: https://www.jetartaviation.co.uk/2019/03/transatlantic-air-race-harrier-xv741-heading-to-brooklands-museum-for-public-display/ A few times they were fitted for deployment to: After retirement some airframes used for aircraft handling were fitted with them as well: Cheers, Andre 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sloegin57 Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 43 minutes ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said: I really love this photo, its the 1st time I've ever seen a sidewinder in that Dark grey. Ive seen them in lighter grey's, but this looks to be a match for the RAF Dark sea grey of the camouflage. I now know how i will do my loadout thanks for the photo. Dennis Port side missile was the same Dennis :- HTH DR 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiskey Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 Another good example of modelling based mainly on reference photos and not generic information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 On 8/17/2019 at 8:36 PM, 72modeler said: @canberra kid John, I guess I got the seat type wrong, but it's amazing how supposedly trustworthy sites have incorrect information, as the two print references I had both listed the Stencil S II as the EJ seat. Mike Stencel SIIS is the family designation, each type of seat has it's own designation (The AV-8B one is different) The story behind the mk 9/Stencel switch on the AV-8A is interesting, after the US decided to fit the Stencel, AV-8As were still delivered with the mk 9, which was then replaced in the US by the Stencel seat, as the RAF School of Aviation medicine refused to certify the US seat (UK test flights were under the UK authority). Later deliveries and the TAV-8As had Stencel seats so they must have resolved that issue. The new Italeri GR1 kit builds as an AV-8A out the box with the small fin, or if you can find an Airfix AV-8A (Kingkit has several) that can do too. https://www.kingkit.co.uk/product/airfix-aircraft-1-72-04057-hawker-siddeley-av-8a-harrier 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now