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Can anyone tell me any major differences between these two variants ? Im looking for an early AV-8A but my only option is the ancient Hasegawa kit in 1/72. I can get a basic Airfix starter kit of an RAF GR.1 though ? Can i use the GR.1 with some minor work or is it to different from the early AV-8A's ? 

 

Dennis

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It seems to me that there might be some minor detail differences, but externally they were virtually identical.  When the RAF went to the GR3 that is when they really started to diverge from the earlier standard with the AV-8A.

Later,

Dave

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The GR.1 and AV-8A are essentially the same aircraft.  The biggest external difference was the large dorsal aerial, and ejection seat is different as the USMC used the Stencel seat.

Best to use good references when you are building it.

 

the current release of the Italeri kit is boxed as a GR.1 but is based on their AV-8 kit and has that big aerial, and possibly the right seat, it's a nice little kit. 

The modern Airfix GR.1 would also be a very good basis and is also boxed as an AV-8A option.

The Esci, Italeri and Fujimi kits are much older but are still very good representations of the Harrier, they all came in GR.1 and AV-8A boxings.

 

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The Stencil seat was adopted after the early deliveries, possibly not very soon after either.  I'm not sure when the large aerial was adopted.  I recall an early Titanium example arriving on my desk at Kingston some time after the early deliveries, but can't confirm this as being the same aerial.

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Dennis,

 

I think you can get away with using a GR1 kit to do a Marine AV-8A. AV-8A's had a Stencil SII instead of a MB Mk 9 bang seat; there was also a long dorsal antenna, and the cockpit layout was different due to U.S. radio equipment and other items being substituted for the British units. Many Marine Harriers were also upgraded to AV-8C standard with an uprated engine and the deletion of the PFO camera in the nose, and I think also the installation of formation or 'tape' lights. If you can find an Esci or Italeri AV-8A or GR1, they are very nice and have much finer scribing and panel line detail than the new-tool Airfix Harrier.

Mike

Edited by 72modeler
corrected spelling
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15 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Can anyone tell me any major differences between these two variants ? Im looking for an early AV-8A but my only option is the ancient Hasegawa kit in 1/72. I can get a basic Airfix starter kit of an RAF GR.1 though ? Can i use the GR.1 with some minor work or is it to different from the early AV-8A's ? 

 

Dennis

Dennis, a bit of extra AV.8A info, I hope it helps.

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John

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@canberra kid

 

John,

 

I thought you were the Canberra Kid, not the Harrier Honcho! I guess I got the seat type wrong, but it's amazing how supposedly trustworthy sites have incorrect information, as the two print references I had both listed the Stencil S II as the EJ seat. I have saved this thread as a reference for doing a correct AV-8A. I'm sure Dennis appreciates your taking the time and effort to gather and post this information, as do I.

Mike

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It's interesting to note that the very early AV-8As delivered had the same instrument panel and cockpit as the GR.1, they also lacked the dorsal aerial, and had the Mk9 seat fitted.

I seem to remember reading that this was to get deliveries to the USMC as soon as possible.

I'm guessing the 'baseline' in Johns superb manual extracts above refers to the change of cockpit equipment.

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18 hours ago, 72modeler said:

@canberra kid

 

John,

 

I thought you were the Canberra Kid, not the Harrier Honcho! I guess I got the seat type wrong, but it's amazing how supposedly trustworthy sites have incorrect information, as the two print references I had both listed the Stencil S II as the EJ seat. I have saved this thread as a reference for doing a correct AV-8A. I'm sure Dennis appreciates your taking the time and effort to gather and post this information, as do I.

Mike

LOL! I like the sound of the that Mike 'Harrier Honcho' has a ring to it! but I'll stick to Canberra's, it just so happens occasionally I have some bit and bob's on other stuff too. The Stencil S II seat could have been in the AV.8B's? 

 

John

 

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15 hours ago, 71chally said:

It's interesting to note that the very early AV-8As delivered had the same instrument panel and cockpit as the GR.1, they also lacked the dorsal aerial, and had the Mk9 seat fitted.

I seem to remember reading that this was to get deliveries to the USMC as soon as possible.

I'm guessing the 'baseline' in Johns superb manual extracts above refers to the change of cockpit equipment.

James as you say it looks like the first few were strait out of the box GR.1's, the Manual's contain details and procedures for the UK cockpit and the Mk.9 seats, it would be interesting to know if this first batch were 'updated' to full AV.8A configuration, or scraped?

 

John 

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On 17/08/2019 at 13:47, Selwyn said:

The AV8A did not have the RAF INAS moving map display.

 

Selwyn

Neither did the first batch of GR.1's up to at least XV762.  These were slowly upgraded in the Retrofit facility at Wittering.  The last 4 went through in the early/mid 70's.  They were known as "Mod 9" aircraft.

7 hours ago, canberra kid said:

James as you say it looks like the first few were strait out of the box GR.1's, the Manual's contain details and procedures for the UK cockpit and the Mk.9 seats, it would be interesting to know if this first batch were 'updated' to full AV.8A configuration, or scraped?

 

John 

The first batch of AV-8A's (158384 - 158395) were to all intents and purposes Harrier GR.1A being equipped with Pegasus 102 engine.  They initially equipped VMA-513 at MCAS Beaufort, South Carolina and all were in Gloss finish, subsequent batches were Matt and were fitted with the Pegasus 103 engine (Harrier GR.3 standard [pointy nose])  None carried the Tactical VHF aerial on the spine.  After upgrade, I believe that they later served with VMA-231.

 

EDIT :- The 11th and twelfth aircraft from the first batch were both fitted with the Pegasus 103 for trials in the UK and were transported to the USA as such.

 

At least one Harrier GR.3 was equipped with the tactical VHF aerial and associated equipment for trials in RAFG in 1976.  This was XV810 "XX" of 20 Sqdn.  The trials failed and were stopped but the aerial remained.

 

ALL Harrier/AV-8A/TAV-8A aircraft were built with fittings to be equipped with any assortment of aerial.

 

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MCAS Beaufort 1972

 

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7th aircraft, 1st batch VMA-231

 

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MCAS Beaufort Units re-equipment 1972

 

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Harrier GR.3 (Post Phase 4 conversion) XV810 20Sqdn "XX", October 1976

 

HTH

 

Dennis

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20 hours ago, canberra kid said:

...it would be interesting to know if this first batch were 'updated' to full AV.8A configuration, or scraped?

 

My understanding is that the early Harriers got into a lot of scrapes!

 

Displaying my lack of Harrier knowledge, the "ferry tips" are interesting- were they actually used much?

 

And finally, love the shot of Harrier, Skyhawk, and Phantom!

 

bob

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17 hours ago, sloegin57 said:

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MCAS Beaufort Units re-equipment 1972

I really love this photo, its the 1st time I've ever seen a sidewinder in that Dark grey. Ive seen them in lighter grey's, but this looks to be a match for the RAF Dark sea grey of the camouflage. I now know how i will do my loadout thanks for the photo. 

 

Dennis

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5 hours ago, gingerbob said:

Displaying my lack of Harrier knowledge, the "ferry tips" are interesting- were they actually used much?

Not very widely. Their best known use was in the Transatlantic Air Race:

 

https://www.jetartaviation.co.uk/2019/03/transatlantic-air-race-harrier-xv741-heading-to-brooklands-museum-for-public-display/

 

A few times they were fitted for deployment to:

 

After retirement some airframes used for aircraft handling were fitted with them as well:

 

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

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43 minutes ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

I really love this photo, its the 1st time I've ever seen a sidewinder in that Dark grey. Ive seen them in lighter grey's, but this looks to be a match for the RAF Dark sea grey of the camouflage. I now know how i will do my loadout thanks for the photo. 

 

Dennis

Port side missile was the same Dennis :-

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HTH

 

DR

 

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On 8/17/2019 at 8:36 PM, 72modeler said:

@canberra kid

 

John,

 I guess I got the seat type wrong, but it's amazing how supposedly trustworthy sites have incorrect information, as the two print references I had both listed the Stencil S II as the EJ seat.

Mike

 

Stencel SIIS is the family designation, each type of seat has it's own designation (The AV-8B one is different)

 

The story behind the mk 9/Stencel switch on the AV-8A is interesting, after the US decided to fit the Stencel,  AV-8As were still delivered with the mk 9, which was then replaced in the US by the Stencel seat, as the RAF School of Aviation medicine refused to certify the US seat  (UK test flights were under the UK authority). Later deliveries and the TAV-8As had Stencel seats so they must have resolved that issue.

 

The new Italeri GR1 kit builds as an AV-8A out the box with the small fin, or if you can find an Airfix AV-8A (Kingkit has several) that can do too.

 

https://www.kingkit.co.uk/product/airfix-aircraft-1-72-04057-hawker-siddeley-av-8a-harrier

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