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My next build is the venerable Airfix F-80C:

 

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This was part of my mid-90's stash-building spree.  It may be my favorite straight-winged jet of all time (even over my Banshee!), so I'm super excited to build this.  Plus I will be trying AK interactive extreme  metal for the first time as well.  Not that there's anything wrong with Alclad -- I love it -- but I've found that I can't quite get the "Almost-shiny-but-partly-worn" look from Alclad.  Mirror finishes and really worn finishes, yes, but that elusive in-between... no. Here's an example of what I mean:

 

1024px-Lockheed_F-80C_47-545_%2811488799
Lockheed F-80C 47-545 (11488799454)
Bill Larkins [CC BY-SA 2.0 (https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.0)], via Wikimedia Commons

 

I've tried lots of pre-shading ideas, but they either didn't work or weren't consistently reproducible.  I suppose I could experiment with some post-painting effects, like maybe some dot filtering or something.  I don't know.  Back to the AK paint, however -- I saw several builds using the stuff and it looked closer to the picture above than I can get with Alclad, so I thought I'd give it a shot. I've also looked at lots and lots of photos and have a pretty good idea of how to shade the different panels to match the metal shades I see.  More on that later.

 

So, weeknights are busy and I typically only have about 10 -30 minutes to do anything at the bench.  So, I started Sunday night but only now have had time to post any progress.

 

Sunday night I painted all the Zinc Chromate parts, and painted the landing gears with decanted Tamiya Silver Leaf paint.

 

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The seat was terribly inaccurate, so I thought I could make it a little less so after looking at some reference photos.  Here's the original seat:

 

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I added some arm rests with sheet styrene:

 

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Monday night I did an oil wash on the zinc chromate parts, then sealed them with dull coat:

 

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... and a little detailing in the cockpit tub:

 

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and painted the seat.

 

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The seat in the photos I have looks like it was olive drab against the zinc chromate cockpit floor, which seemed odd, but that's what I went with.

 

Tuesday night I painted the details in the landing gear bays.  My reference photos showed that many of the lines were silver, but the lines don't match between the photos and the model, so I had to wing it.

 

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Last night I did some dry brushing and silver paint chipping on the seat...

 

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And fabricated some ejection seat handles to put on:

 

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Of course the opening for the cockpit is small, so all this detail maybe for nothing....

 

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I also epoxied some lead fishing weights in for nose weight.

 

I hope to get the fuselage buttoned up tonight. I've heard good things about this kit and it seems like the fit will be fairly good.  I also heard that the intakes can give some trouble.  The raised detail is incredibly fine, and I'm sure it will get wiped out when I do any sanding on the seam.  It is so fine I won't be able to replace it,so I may have to just sacrifice some of it.

 

@Stalker6Recon and @Corsairfoxfouruncle -- you asked to be tagged on this one... so here you go! :) 

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3 hours ago, opus999 said:

and painted the seat.

 

My step-father used to have a recliner that looked just like that. We were not allowed to sit in it, but what he didn't know, never hurt him😜!

 

3 hours ago, opus999 said:

the opening for the cockpit is small, so all this detail maybe for nothing....

Better to have it and not see it, than see it and not have it😁!

 

3 hours ago, opus999 said:

you asked to be tagged on this one

Thanks for the tag, looks like a fun one already.

 

Cheers,

 

Anthony

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I was working on a "small" home improvement project today, but was able to sneak away and get some work in on the F-80.  Some of the seams were really bad and I had a lot of sanding and shaping to do.  Which is weird, because most of the build logs I've read about this kit say that it fits together well and has few flaws.  Since I bought this in the 90's, maybe the molds were getting old?

 

Anyway, I found that one side of the fuselage was warped so that when the nose was glued together, the back of the fuselage angled downward quite a bit:

 

ob0pAFb.jpg

 

So I had to be pretty careful making sure everything was lined up and gluing it bit by bit until I had it bent back into shape.  The seam along the spine didn't have any gaps, but had a ridge with depressions on either side.  I don't know if this is an artifact of an old mold, or how they made it, or what, but I had to sand that flush, which eliminated some of the raised detail.  I tried to keep the damage to a minimum.  The detail is so fine that my experiments (on scrap plastic) to see if I could replace it (as on my B-57 build) were failures. Ah, well...

 

Once I had parts in place, I found there were several gaps and steps that had to be dealt with. This seam between the wing and the landing gear bay had a step and a gap, so I filled with Gel CA and sanded down to 4000 grit.

 

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The airbrakes were clearly not designed to be closed (even though the instructions show that as an option) because I had to do a fair amount of trimming to get them to fit properly in their openings.  Turned out OK, though:

 

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Other bad gaps:

 

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I wanted to keep sanding to a minimum, so I got out the Apoxie Sculpt epoxy putty since it can be shaped with water. 

 

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Most of that won't need to be sanded, but there are some parts that will.  Sorry for the blurry photos, I don't know why that happened. 

 

One other thing I notice that concerns me is that the plastic of the nose landing gear seems very soft and prone to getting bent if I have it sitting on the bench for any length of time.  So I will have to prop the plane up so it doesn't rest on the landing gear.

 

I'm not quite where I wanted to be today, but made pretty good progress. I still wish there was something I could do about the raised detail, but I won't be able to replicate that fine detail.  Looking at other folks' builds of the same kit, I've found that many (maybe most) people re-scribe the detail, but I'm not that good at it, and it comes out too heavy and unrealistic looking. One build here looks like he sanded all the detail off and used post shading to replicate the panel lines.

It looks pretty good, but I'm not sure I want to go that route either.

 

Well, I think my next step will be to primer with Mr. Surfacer 1500 to fill in any tiny scratches from sanding (there shouldn't be many since I'm sanding down to 4000 or 6000 grit).  After that I will spray it with Tamiya Gloss black.  I've read conflicting reviews about whether or not the AK extreme metal polished aluminum needs a black gloss under coat or not.  I figure it can't hurt and the lacquer dries quickly.

 

More tomorrow.

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Cool! My daughter (the Little Bear:bear:) was eyeing off mine in the stash this morning for "daddy's next build". I think I'll follow along on this to pick up some tips.:idea:

 

Mind you mine will have to wait until I finish my QANTAS Super Constellation.

 

DennisTheBear

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That sucks about the warped parts and soft landing gear, this kit is a bit of a mess. Probably the age, but the air brakes look ridiculously out of shape out of the box, another blunder of the mold, I hope their newer kits don't suffer with this much fit problems.

 

As for the lost detail, there are a lot of tools to help with scribing panel lines, and even though you are not comfortable with that skill, it might be worth looking into again. I too am not comfortable with scribing, but I know that it is a skill that must be developed. Thankfully, the tools are getting better and better. Personally, with my short experience, I have found that the best tool so far, is a set of Hasegawa "try tools" TP-4 panel line scribing saws. They are inexpensive, and their kerf (cutting width) is very small, making them suitable even on most 72nd scale kits. They are made of PE and are very VERY thin. They can be uses with your fingers (no worry about needing stitches) or mounted in a hobby knife, although I have not tried that method yet. Unlike your typical hobby knife scribe, these saws do not jump out of the line as easily, but it's still best to use a guide line, either a template or something else made from metal. The dyno tape isn't the best, since the saw will cut into the tape with ease. 41xIq0fCr4L._AC_SY400_.jpg

Anyway, we have faith that you will be able to get through the many issues with relative ease, I especially like the filler you use, being able to smooth with water is a huge advantage over sanding, and there is not threat of lost detail as well.

 

Cheers,

 

Anthony

 

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6 hours ago, Stalker6Recon said:

this kit is a bit of a mess.

It seems to be, which is surprising given how many good reviews I've read from people who have built it. I didn't expect it to be perfect, but it seems to be much worse than it should be.

 

6 hours ago, Stalker6Recon said:

I hope their newer kits don't suffer with this much fit problems.

There are others who may have a different viewpoint, but I've found their new ones to be terrific to work on. My F-86 fit wonderfully and only had one gap where the wing met the body, which was easily fixed (it became much worse when I dropped it), my Typhoon also fit together wonderfully, but had a step where the wing met the fuselage (which I could've easily fixed before putting the wing on, but made a poor decision based on time pressures), and most recently my BF-109G-6 was one of the best fitting kits I've put together, but suffered from some real detail issues (I've read their BF-109E model is in a completely different league). My Dad is working on their 1/72 P-51D and is really excited with how well that one fits together -- I looked at it and was fairly impressed. I've also read good things about their A6M2 Zero kit.

 

I've read some really glowing reviews about their P-40C (In my case, a Hawk 81-A-2: https://www.scalemates.com/kits/airfix-a01003-curtiss-hawk-81-a-2--131395) which is the one I plan to do after the Spitfire I plan to do after this, so we'll see!

 

I hope my other "new" Airfix kits are as good because I've manged to get about about 10 of them in my stash!

 

7 hours ago, Stalker6Recon said:

Hasegawa "try tools" TP-4 panel line scribing saws

Surprisingly, I haven't heard about these. If they have a smaller kerf than my current tools, then I will seriously give them a try.  My main complaint about rescribing is the size of the panel lines. My first rescribing adventure was a 1/48 scale Spitfire with a pin vise and it went very well. The next one was a 1/72 Hasegawa F-86, which went well, but the panel lines are so huge they drive me nuts! I bought a trumpeter scribing tool because it pulls the plastic out of the groove as it goes and doesn't leave ridges on either side like a pin vise.  When I get it to cut correctly it makes very nice lines, but still too wide. Trouble is, after months of experimenting with it, I can't get it to cut consistently and it often goes its own way or goes deep and I have a real mess on my hands. Plus, it wants to cut into the dymo tape (which the pin vise won't), resulting in crooked lines.  I've put that tool in a drawer.

 

So, yes, I am very interested in the Hasegawa tools -- Thanks for the tip!!

 

7 hours ago, Stalker6Recon said:

we have faith that you will be able to get through the many issues with relative ease

Thanks for the faith! ;) 

 

7 hours ago, Stalker6Recon said:

I especially like the filler you use

I don't know if they intended it to be used this way, but it seems to work well, and if I do have to sand it, it sands easily and can actually be polished down to 4000 - 6000 grit, unlike the puttys I've used. I originally got it to make a new tail for the 1/48 Spitfire I mentioned before -- it worked great and turned out hard as a rock.  I've never posted that build because it was the worst kit I've ever built (a genuine "Starfix" kit), but maybe I will some day for laughs.  Too bad, because it was one of the first times I tried the new techniques I'd used and I'm quite proud of the paint and weathering.  The kit was such a dog though. Ugh... 

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12 hours ago, opus999 said:

I wanted to keep sanding to a minimum, so I got out the Apoxie Sculpt epoxy putty since it can be shaped with water. 

I looked it up on Google and it is £44.95 a tub. It should be good for that price. Does it come in smaller more affordable amounts? You can shape Milliput with water as well

John

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6 minutes ago, John R said:

I looked it up on Google and it is £44.95 a tub. It should be good for that price. Does it come in smaller more affordable amounts? You can shape Milliput with water as well

John

Here in the US I got a pound of the stuff for 23 USD ( about 19 British Pounds ) from Amazon. A pound will probably last me forever.  I see on Amazon that you can buy a 1/4 pound for $14. 

 

I did not know Milliput could be shaped with water.  For some reason that didn't come up when I was researching epoxy putties a few years ago. Nuts.  I tried Milliput in the mid-90's and didn't like it for some reason, but I don't remember what that was so I guess I need to try it again.

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Over here Milliput retails at about roughly £20/pound depending on the grade and where you buy it. IT comes in 4oz/110g packs.

Off topic - I see you are in Richland. I used to fly gliders out of there occasionally when I was working for Boeing in Seattle. Is the airfield still there or is it covered by housing these days?

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8 minutes ago, John R said:

Over here Milliput retails at about roughly £20/pound depending on the grade and where you buy it. IT comes in 4oz/110g packs.

Off topic - I see you are in Richland. I used to fly gliders out of there occasionally when I was working for Boeing in Seattle. Is the airfield still there or is it covered by housing these days?

Wow!  I just came back from the RIchland Airport a half hour ago because they had a small EAA airshow there!  That area has turned pretty industrial -- most of the housing growth now is south Richland and west Pasco. 

 

When did you fly gliders from there?  My dad was a pilot at the Richland Flying Service until 1977 towing gliders among many other things. 

 

Wow, small world. :) 

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Back 1966/68. I remember being 'intercepted' by an F-102 when flying in a competition. Presumably someone saw a lot of strange traces on the radar and sent and a/c to investigate.

Names like Rudi Alleman, Ed McClanahan, Jim Kay, Ron Chitwoodand Paul Pallmer spring to mind. They might mean something to your Dad.

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Sort of off topic:  Spent the morning yesterday at the Richland airport at the small EAA airshow there. Mostly experimentals, but there were a couple of warbirds and a few biplanes (Stearmans, Wacos, etc.).  And old cars too. There were a couple Trojans and a Texan, a P-40N and a P-46, which I really didn't know much about, so I came home and did some reading about it.

 

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The Tri-Cities (Richland, Pasco, Kennewick) is kind of a weird place. Three cities that border each other (plus a couple smaller towns that our growth has reached, like West Richland and Finley), with 2 in one county and one in another county. Collectively, when you include all the people that live within 50 miles (lots of agriculture and small towns around), there's approximately 285,000 people. But since the 3 cities can't work together, we only have events that you would find in a town of 50,000 people. Same goes with services around here.  200,000 people in all the cities that bump up against each other, but stores and roads and amenities for a 50,000 person sized town. It can be frustrating. 

 

The reason I mention it is because the airshow yesterday was fairly piddly sized for the reasons I mention above. (off-off-topic): In the 80's we had a pretty impressive airshow every year for our Hydroplane Race weekend -- for static displays, there were a couple dozen current and national guard fighters (F-15/16/14, A-6/A-7, F-4, etc.). Plus KC-135/C-141/B-1. There were also some warbirds. On top of that they would have aerial demos with the Blue Angels a couple years, and usually an F-15 or F-16, and some piston powered aerobatics. In '93, the F-117 did a demonstration. So it made for a pretty satisfying airshow in our own hometown.  But, I think it was because a couple of the cities worked together to make it happen.  Those shows stopped in '94 because (I think) the cooperation broke down and now they just settle for jets flying over the river during the boat races.

 

Anyway... back to the topic at hand.  I spent my time yesterday trying to get those intakes looking nice, which was pretty difficult.  I thought I had it and sprayed decanted Mr. Surfacer 1500 on the a/c, which of course showed that those intakes weren't quite right yet.  I used squadron putty to try to get those seams filled in.  A couple of tries didn't quite get it right and I haven't sanded on my third try yet.

 

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The bottom is the worst, and I'm just not sure if I'll get it perfect, but since its on the bottom, I'll do the best I can and leave it at that.

 

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While waiting for the putty to dry, I experimented with the AK Interactive paint.  I'd read a review that said the polished aluminum worked best with a black gloss undercoat, and another review that said it didn't matter.  So I decided to test both! I sprayed a black gloss strip on some scrap and sprayed the Polished Aluminum  on that.  I planned to test the plain Aluminum, but the paint was tacky for a while, so I decided to wait until today.  The paint didn't look very good as I sprayed it on, but within a few minutes as it dried, it looked better and better.  I have to say, this is the first time I've actually been fooled by NMF paint; I had the scrap lying on the airbrush table and when I walked past this morning (doing something else), I did a double-take because from the corner of my eye I thought my wife had put a piece of metal on the table (which wouldn't be odd, since she uses the table for crafting). The regular Alclad Aluminum and the Tamiya AS-12 have never impressed me as looking like metal (but look better than just plain silver paint) and Tamiya's TS-30 "looks like" metal, but this actually fooled me. So, while it doesn't completly match the photos I posted above, I'm pretty excited by the realism.  Now I just have to see how it looks after different overcoats.  Here's a photo, but it doesn't quite do it justice:

 

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The top is the paint on bare plastic, the bottom is the paint on Black gloss.  It does seem to make a difference, but the difference is subtle.

 

For a mirror finish, though, Alclad polished aluminum is still the best:

 

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So, I'm going to sand the intakes (again) and touch up the Mr. Surfacer in the places I sanded.  After that I will put a black gloss on the a/c and hopefully get to the NMF paint today... but that's not a certainty. 

Edited by opus999
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Well, I worked and worked on those intakes and finally got them to be acceptable.  I'm not completely crazy about how they look, but I think they will withstand all but the closest scrutiny.  I looked at some other builds around the web and even the very best ones, I can just make out the same seam problems I've been having, so I feel a little better about that anyway.  The bottom is still terrible, but much, much better than it was. 

 

Once finished with all the putty and sanding, I touched up the sanded spots with Mr. Surfacer 1500 in an airbrush, and then gave it a coat of Gloss Black Tamiya. It's not a glassy finish like on my B-57, but I expected that from being sprayed onto the Mr Surfacer. I think the glassy smooth finish is only possible on bare plastic, or paint that has been polished. But, that's OK, because I'm not going for a mirror finish here.

 

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I also tested the AK Interactive Aluminum and found that it didn't differ that much from the Polished Aluminum.  Maybe a tad bit less shiny, but pretty subtle. It's a bit disappointing, but for this application it might work very well because it offers a subtle contrast in color and luster.  I tried spraying Mr. Color super metallic stainless steel on it, but it didn't turn out well. I normally get a beautiful finish from the super metallic, but I don't know if my technique was off, or if it reacted with the AK or what, but it looked terrible.  I'd planned to use it for the plate around the guns, but I think I will stick with my tried-and-true method of Alclad Stainless with a light dusting of Alclad Dark Aluminum, which will require masking the area off before using the AK so I don't have lacquer on enamel interactions when I start using the Alclad.

 

In this picture the top strip is AK polished Aluminum on plastic, the next one down is AK Polished Aluminum on Black Gloss Paint, the 3rd one down is AK Aluminum on Black Gloss Paint and the bottom one is AK Aluminum on Plastic.  The darker squares are the Mr. Color stainless.

 

vb4sVdv.jpg

 

 

Edited by opus999
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On 8/17/2019 at 7:08 PM, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Oooh a Super Connie... do you have a WIP for it ? I love Constellations they are my all time favorite classic airliner. 

 

Dennis

Sorry, no WIP. Basic OOB, complete with interuptions from flood, famine, etc.

 

DennisTheBear

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19 hours ago, John R said:

Back 1966/68. I remember being 'intercepted' by an F-102 when flying in a competition. Presumably someone saw a lot of strange traces on the radar and sent and a/c to investigate.

Names like Rudi Alleman, Ed McClanahan, Jim Kay, Ron Chitwoodand Paul Pallmer spring to mind. They might mean something to your Dad.

That was when he was just finishing college, so a bit before his time.  I'll ask him about the names you remember... it could be he knew them.

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8 hours ago, billn53 said:

I never thought of airbrushing Mr Surfacer 1500. I assume you thin it first... what do you use for thinning Mr Surfacer?

I use Mr. self-leveling thinner.  I really prefer the airbrush method for all the reasons you'd expect when comparing airbrushing to spray bombing. :) 

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Just a quick update from last night:

 

d4ijSRX.jpg

 

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Man, that AK interactive paint looks nice! As easy to use as Alclad too. It came out a little bit more polished looking that I thought it would, but that's OK.  When it first goes on it looks terrible and really makes  you think you've ruined it, but in just a few minutes of drying it ends up looking like this. 

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9 hours ago, mdauben said:

Shiny!  😎

 

Seriously, the AK Interactive paint looks really good.  

Thanks!  I'm really happy with it so far. I can't wait to paint the Aluminum panels to see how the contrast turns out.😜

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