The Silver Spitfire G-IRTY

[StevenBills]

1 hour ago, rob Lyttle said:

Great stuff Steven. 

And good luck with the paint process. 

I thought your Late model wings might include the wheel well modification on top, along with the thin gun blisters. 

No luck with that. 

If you want to scratch them I can do clear pictures of the feature, but I think you're settled on that? 

 

You've chosen the right way forward..... Choose a picture or two of a particular stage in the airframe's development, and stick with it! 

Did you get grief while fitting the wing centre section onto the fuselage bottom? 

Thanks. I'm not going to be doing the blisters from the wheels on the topside, just simply down to the fact that I'm lazy 😑 And I'll let you know about the wings because I'm gluing those on tonight.

 

SB

[rob Lyttle]

I know the old ICM Spit is a bit of a side issue but I'm finding some satisfaction in trying to get it into shape. 

It's been waiting for it's destiny for some years! 

The cannon covers were a very good fit and I had just pushed them in place. 

So out they popped. 

I used it as a template for the replacement panel. 

Slight adjustments could be made upwards with a 1mm drill bit up through the shell ejector slot. 

The rudder project shaped up OK too. 

That's a modelling clay called Fimo applied between the ribs and I'm trying to get the slight fabric dips on the surface. 

It's a Bake-in-the-Oven type clay, recommended at 110°C.

I did a couple of tests with scrap poly and I can confirm that oven thermostats are NOT precision instruments!! 

I let it cool down to where the stat was kicking in around 80°and tested again. 

Seemed safe for the plastic so I gave it 5 minutes without letting the heater come back on. 

And the rudder survived.! 

So I'll see how it paints up 

[rob Lyttle]

And a shot at making the wheel well modification on the wing top. 

I whittled away at a piece of poly sheet, using the Eduard wing moulding as reference. 

Cut a hole in the wing foil to suit... 

White spirit on a cotton bud cleans off the old glue, and a nice simple plastic joint... 

I think that's going to foil up OK. 

😎

[janneman36]

Hello Rob,

 

nice progress you made , here is a linky with some fine pics of g-irty that clears the no or yes bulges question..

http://warbirdsnews.com/warbird-restorations/silver-spitfire-takes-flight.html

 

cheers, Jan

[rob Lyttle]

30 minutes ago, janneman36 said:

with some fine pics of g-irty

This is the one I'm going for. @janneman36

There's a fair bit of promotion material issued during the restoration project, some of it photoshop and clever graphics, which show different rudders and all sorts. 

This looks very much like the plane that is doing the tour. 

[janneman36]

12 minutes ago, rob Lyttle said:

This is the one I'm going for. @janneman36

There's a fair bit of promotion material issued during the restoration project, some of it photoshop and clever graphics, which show different rudders and all sorts. 

This looks very much like the plane that is doing the tour. 

If i am correct these were taken the day prior to the flying legends at Duxford as it had flown that particular friday..

I have seen it on the sunday and took a few pics of it but i wasn’t able to take different angle shots...and it appeared that it didn’t had the Cannon blisters on it when i enlarged my picture..

So i think you interpreted it well👌

 

cheers, Jan

 

[rob Lyttle]

I was comparing the fuselages out of interest, and I must admit that when I noticed this, 

 

 

.... it kinda reminds me of something. 

 

 

You'll recall the North American double Mustang project...... 

 

And the mind starts wandering! 

Bet somebody on here has done a what-if!! 

Twin Spitfire..... Come ON! 

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

6 hours ago, rob Lyttle said:

And the mind starts wandering! 

Bet somebody on here has done a what-if!! 

Twin Spitfire..... Come ON! 

Hmmmm ... I think i know your next Spitfire project Rob. 

[dave665]

22 hours ago, rob Lyttle said:

This is the one I'm going for. @janneman36

There's a fair bit of promotion material issued during the restoration project, some of it photoshop and clever graphics, which show different rudders and all sorts. 

This looks very much like the plane that is doing the tour. 

 

@rob Lyttle they used a second spitfire to promote the project. They painted G-BRSF (RR232) silver for an event at Goodwood as G-IRTY (MJ271) was still being restored. Article here.

 

So pictures of the silver spitfire with cannons/cannon blisters could be RR232 in silver paint. G-IRTY, now highly polished, has had the cannons and blisters removed.

 

[rob Lyttle]

Thanks for the information @dave665

There's definitely a picture of G-BRSF pasted on here somewhere. 

Only the tip of the 2nd letter is showing but I could see it wasn't an "I", it could only be B, D, P or R. 

So now we have it. 

The wing tops are in the process of getting a bit of surgery to this very end

 

[dave665]

Rob are you going to try replicating the stressed skin on G-IRTY's polished wings? It shows up well in the first photo in this article on historicalracingnews.com.

 

 

Edited September 2, 2019 by dave665

[rob Lyttle]

That's a great picture Dave, but the short answer is No!! 

I wouldn't know the first thing about creating the effect. I tried once to do a sunken panels effect and the results were iffy. 

These on the Spitfire are bulging out between the lines of rivets, aren't they? 

I've got no chance.! 

I can get a bit of variation in the panels and see how it all buffs up. 

 

Check out the terrain reflections in this. 

 

[rob Lyttle]

Finally happy with the fit of wings to the fuselage. 

And it's time to glue! 

The instructions propose fitting the tops of the wings to the bottom and then assembling the lot up under the fuselage. (that's before the nose underpan goes on). 

With clearances so nonexistent all round, I could see problems looming with no way out..... so I went another way. 

With The nose underpan already fitted I found this useful for positive positioning and holding of the wing underside at the front while I fooled around with the fit at the back. 

So this was glued first. 

 

Gave that a minute or two (made a cuppa tea.... 😊☕) and after a dry fit or two went for the port wing panel. 

Tidy fit to the fuselage! 

Now you can't really complain about that...... 

So the other wing got the same.... 

 

You can probably tell I'm faintly relieved to finally get these glued up. 

There's a seam to sort across the bottom of the big intake and a little finessing around the fairings behind the t. e. but other than that she's good to go! 

I hope and expect the wing tips will be as good a fit as this. 😇

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

10 hours ago, rob Lyttle said:

That's a great picture Dave, but the short answer is No!! 

I wouldn't know the first thing about creating the effect

In theory Rob the best way to do this would be to take fine strips of tape and cover every panel line including rivet lines. Then spray a few thin layers of paint up. Remove the tape and you get a bulged panel. To get a sunken panel do the same but in the opposite direction. Tape over the panels leaving panel lines and rivet lines exposed to build them up. Remove the tape and you get sunken panels. Bit labor intensive but the effect is achievable. Ive seen it done on B-36's and B-52's to get the rippled skin effect. Especially since your taping and not painting the NMF. 

Edited September 1, 2019 by Corsairfoxfouruncle

[Biggles87]

I think your approach to the wing/fuselage join is the correct one for the Eduard Spitfires. I used the ‘ traditional ‘ method on my first one and it was a bit of a struggle due to the tight tolerances so I will try your way the next time.

 

John

[rob Lyttle]

4 holes needed filling in the l. e. before the foil is applied. 

I'm trying to keep the cuts of the foil away from edges as much as possible as this is where corners can start to peel. 

So one-piece across the wing with the emphasis on getting the long straight edge matched up. 

(the wing tips are a great fit, but I'll deal with them later) 

The idea now is to get the foil smoothed ove the l.e. and eased around to the underside. 

On a straight leading edge I'd go big enough to foil underneath right back to the spar line, but with the curve of Mr Mitchell's famously elliptical wing that's out of the question. 

But the foil is happy to follow the shape this far.... 

Then it's a strip along the under-wing trimmed to make that joint under the l.e 

.... and the cuts are away from the front edge. 

Note to self.... Remember to do the other radiator box!! 

[CedB]

Looking good Rob  

I've abandoned my builder's tape trial as I think mine's too thick - you're seems to be going into those inspection panels like paint!

[rob Lyttle]

14 minutes ago, CedB said:

going into those inspection panels like paint!

Well, they need to be found and picked out with a sharp pencil or cocktail stick, but they come up OK 

The very faint rivets are gone but that's a good thing in this case 

[dave665]

Very nice work foiling the wings Rob.

 

Did you note the photo I found shows the fuel tanks fitted in G-IRTY's gun bays? You can see the black filler caps on the replacement upper wing panels. Looks like there is something on the lower wing panels as well in your photo.

[rob Lyttle]

1 hour ago, dave665 said:

the fuel tanks fitted in G-IRTY's gun bays? You can see the black filler caps

Yes, I've been pondering these, and trying to get some idea of what they look like. 

I have the top ones marked for something....... 

Little discs of black paint? 

Drill them out and put a plug? 

I haven't noticed a decent picture of the feature either on top or the (presumably) drain plugs under. 

Anyone have anything on these?? 

The main fuel filler in front of the cockpit is currently a hole and will get it's plug later, but that one appears to be bare metal and is in the black antiglare finish. 

 

[rob Lyttle]

HOLD THE FRONT PAGE....! 

 

THIS just came up on the latest update. 

They're in Hollywood Ca. 

 

Anything else?? 

 

Bet that watch is worth a couple of bucks.... 😎👀😇

Edited September 2, 2019 by rob Lyttle
Addition

[rob Lyttle]

Black decal discs test.... 

 

Too big, I reckon. 

Next size down.... 

Still too big? 

Too black..? 

I think the size is close, but it's just so featureless and black..... 

I stopped thinking about it and did a walkway instead, as I had my piece of black decal paper out. 😊

[rob Lyttle]

Just look at the exhaust stubs over this guy's shoulder...... 

Aggravating, isn't it?!? 

The number of refs I combed through to decide I need to fit the flattened stubs, and then this shows up in sunny California!! 

I mean, I've GOT these pipes sitting in the box. 

And very nice they are, too. 

How on earth do they mould them like that? 

 

It's no good - I'm going back in...... 

All the support parts are a goner, stuck to the first set of pipes. 

But I've got a couple of rails attached inside the cowling and I reckon I can get these fitted. 

I've also got 2 sets main legs and 2 sets of doors, and the 4-spoke wheels. I think the difference in the legs is the set angle of the axle to the leg, but I have no idea what the right option is. 

I can't see any difference in the doors at all.... 

When the u/c was modified (to suit hard runways??) and the blisters added on the wing top to suit, what happened to the wheel alignment? 

Was it made more vertical, and angled away from the leg? 

That would require a bit of a bulge in the well roof. 

Is that what's going on? 

[rob Lyttle]

There are some glimpses of the wing top features here, through a wide angle lens. 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1206413582894794&id=219970775477351

[rob Lyttle]

Here are the ailerons, and the very fine rivet details can be seen on the uncovered one. 

This is a good example of "using the opposite side" to remind where the lines are. I can just pick up the rivet lines along the edges by ruling a line across them 

 

Exhaust stubs are replaced with the rounded pipes and no damage done. 

 

Wing filler caps :- I tried these with light grey paint dabbed on with the trimmed end of a cocktail stick.

Tested on the old ICM kit, and I liked the effect. Not as stark as the black version, but they show up dark in a band of reflected light. 

So the Eduard plane got some too. 

Referring to the refuelling picture above, and looking at the filler caps sitting on the wing, they're machined metal with some kind of handles hinged on the top. 

Solid black doesn't make sense, but a dull metal surrounded by bright reflection fits the bill, in my head anyway. 

Opinions are always welcome....!