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Silverplate B-29's


72modeler

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I was watching an old movie titled The Beginning or the End, about the dropping of the atomic bombs in 1945, and it had very nice actual footage and studio-made segments on the atomic bombs dropped by the 509th Composite Group. Very nice classic B-29 footage! It reminded me that all of the Silverplate B-29's were Martin-built at their Omaha, NE plant, and that Col. Paul Tibbets picked his mount personally when he visited to check on the progress of the modifications to the aircraft.  I have attached a link to specs, photos, and history of the Silverplate B-29's.The 74th anniversary of the missions just passed, August 6 and August 9, 1945.  Amazing that both of the B-29's that dropped atomic bombs were preserved and that they were both flown to their respective museums from storage. I hope the link will be of interest. (You could tell the studio-created footage, as the props on the B-29's they used to represent Enola Gay and The Great Artiste were Hamilton Standard  instead of  the correct Curtiss-Electric reversible props fitted to the Silverplate B-29's.)

Mike

 

https://www.thisdayinaviation.com/tag/silverplate/

 

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Thanks for the link, Mike. :worthy: Always interested in the Silverplate B-29s. Unfortunately, I can't seem to be able to read the link.

Be that as it may, your thread serves me to discuss the subject of the screws which were carried on the Silverplate bombers. Always thought that the Curtiss Electric (cuffed) screws belonged in the early bombers, and that the newer (or last ones), carried the Hamilton Standard non-cuffed screws.

Any Silverplate B-29s that were known to have carried the Hamilton Standard screws? 

Cheers,

 

Unc2 

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Hello Mike,

 

and thank you for the link. I have Hans Herlin's book about the preparation, dropping of atomic bombs and a short history about US atomic program just after WWII. Unfortunately I can't remember the original title as the book is not at hand. In Finnish it is called "Hiroshiman lentäjät" (Hiroshima aviators).

 

Mr. Herlin states that originally, during their time at Wendover and Salt Lake City the blades of Curtis propellers were painted with orange. At the same time the black arrow in a circle was painted on the fins. Do you have more information about this? Is it just a bad translation or were there really completely orange propellers?

 

Cheers,

Antti

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35 minutes ago, Antti_K said:

during their time at Wendover and Salt Lake City the blades of Curtis propellers were painted with orange.

Antti,

 

Never heard that one before! None of the references or photos I have read or seen regarding the 65 Silverplate B-29's built during or after the war mention orange prop blades. Not having the Herlin book, maybe he was referring to the four-inch yellow tips painted on the prop blades? They were insignia yellow, IIRC, which was a yellow-orange color, FS33538. I would think all prop blades were finished in matt black lacquer at the factory; I wouldn't think there would be any reason to paint them with an orange primer and then later on black, as this would upset the balance of the blades. Interesting! I have attached a link to the 509th website, which has excellent original color transparencies and prints of many of the B-29's involved in both bomb drops. I seem to recall that there were instances when one prop blade was painted in a contrasting color to the others on a multi-engined airplane so that the stroboscopic effect visible could be used to determine synchronization of the props- maybe this is what Herlin might have been  referring to regarding the Silverplate airplanes' props?

 

Hyvin outoa! (Pardon my crude Finnish- it's Google's fault!)

Mike

 

https://www.enolagay509th.com/collectplane.htm   

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1 hour ago, Uncle Uncool said:

Any Silverplate B-29s that were known to have carried the Hamilton Standard screws? 

Uncle U/C,

 

I think there were a few (less than ten) Silverplate B-29's that had the Hamilton Standard props, but all of the others had the reversible Curtiss Electric propellers.

Go to the link below and click on August 6 on the calendar at the RH side of the webpage- you will see all of the important events in aviation history that happened on that day of the month, beginning with the most recent year  and going back. You should be able to see the text and photos on the 509th Silverplate B-29's as well as the a-bomb history and missions. Hope this link works for you. It's a neat site for seeing what happened on a given date in aviation history. For grins, go to April 18th- one of my favorite dates!

 

Mike

 

https://www.thisdayinaviation.com/

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Thank you Mike for the link. And don't worry: your Finnish is spot on🙂

 

Years ago (or should I say: decades ago) I wasn't thinking anything else but that Mr. Herlin got it right of course. But later on I started to think that it must be an error in translation. - Once again I'm tempted to buy that huge Monogram 1/48 scale B-29...

 

Hyvin outoa and very interesting at the same time!

 

Cheers,

Antti

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1 hour ago, 72modeler said:

I think there were a few (less than ten) Silverplate B-29's that had the Hamilton Standard props, but all of the others had the reversible Curtiss Electric propellers.

Go to the link below and click on August 6 on the calendar at the RH side of the webpage- you will see all of the important events in aviation history that happened on that day of the month, beginning with the most recent year  and going back. You should be able to see the text and photos on the 509th Silverplate B-29's as well as the a-bomb history and missions. Hope this link works for you. It's a neat site for seeing what happened on a given date in aviation history. For grins, go to April 18th- one of my favorite dates!

Kiitos, Mike! :lol:

35 minutes ago, Antti_K said:

Once again I'm tempted to buy that huge Monogram 1/48 scale B-29...

You really should, Antii. There's the Flightline Engineering Super Update Set to correct the many flaws in this kit.

Also, the Metallic Details photoetch flaps are awesome as well; really lightweight compared to the Paragon resin ones.

Cheers you both,

 

Unc2

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I think the "orange prop blades" should be "orange tips of prop blades..." - so no yellow but orange. This is just speculation, but here norma black props are seen:
 

i284852689447108334.jpg

Note C 54 u/c in background

 

However on E-bay 

https://auction.catawiki.com/kavels/20152323-robert-krauss-b29-up-an-atom-393rd-bomb-squadron-509th-group-1945

 I've bumped on interesting photo of one of the nuc team B29 

601f051d-a7b1-42eb-aa29-97b78e205457.jpg

 

later censored

http://fishersisland.net/documentary-movie-atomic-cafe-by-two-fishers-islanders-honored-by-library-of-congress/

Cheers

J-W

 

Edited by JWM
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Hello all,

 

according to Mr. Herlin's book, propeller blades were orange coloured when the unit was at Wendower ("very" early that is). Those electrically operated Curtis propellers were brand new and were on test status at that time (at least on unit level). If I remember correctly future "Enola Gay" was still under construction at the time. Plane #82 was christened "Enola Gay" at the night of August the 5th (the night before the Hiroshima mission).

 

I've tried a couple of searches but only found photos of aircraft with black propellers and yellow tips. The security at Wendower AB was extremely strict and therefore it is possible that no photos exist.

 

Cheers,

Antti

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20 hours ago, Jordi said:

This book is indispensable if you’re at all interested in the Silverplate aircraft:

Jordi,

 

Thanks so much! I found the book and have ordered it!

Mike

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In any of your research, did anyone find out WHY the Nose Gear and Wheel Hub was painted ?Jeep? Yellow?  I have a color photo taken days after the mission of Enola Gay and nose gear and wheel hub was spray painted some yellow color.  Overspray of yellow is on tire and can also be seen in Black/White photo show above.

Guessing Yellow was added to nose gear to aid in backing over bomb pit????  Just guessing.  I painted my 48th Enola Gay with that yellow nose gear. 

 

Also #82 on rear fuselage is NOT directly on opposite side of fuselage???  Door opening???

Bo

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43 minutes ago, Demon said:

In any of your research, did anyone find out WHY the Nose Gear and Wheel Hub was painted ?Jeep? Yellow?  I have a color photo taken days after the mission of Enola Gay and nose gear and wheel hub was spray painted some yellow color.  Overspray of yellow is on tire and can also be seen in Black/White photo show above.

Guessing Yellow was added to nose gear to aid in backing over bomb pit????  Just guessing.  I painted my 48th Enola Gay with that yellow nose gear. 

Maybe not yellow but inside paint - chrome green?

44-09.jpg

Cheers

J-W

 

 

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I have seen color photos in which the nose gear struts on B-29's were aluminum, chromate yellow, or neutral grey...don't ask me why! The inner surfaces of the nose and main gear doors appear to be bare metal or aluminum paint. I think I recall Enola Gay had her nose strut apinted chromate yellow during her restoration, but it was re-painted at some point in aluminum before she was placed on display. 

Mike 

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The Nose gear and wheel hub looks yellow to me.  What shade???  

I just used yellow.

Bo

EDIT:  This photo was taken when Enola Gay was Operational and guessing it's on Tinian??  Not during restoration.

BR

 

spacer.png

 

 

Edited by Demon
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2 hours ago, Demon said:

Not during restoration.

I think what I had read was her nose gear assembly was originally chromate yellow, so that's how it was painted after being restored; then subsequently before she went on display at Dulles, information came to light that the strut should have been aluminum, so it was re-painted, but this turned out to be incorrect, but it was too late to rectify the mistake. ( IIRC, Dana Bell commented on this in a published article.) I'm pretty sure the Martin-built Silverplate B-29's had landing gear assemblies provided by other contractors, and were possibly delivered in primer- according to written production references I have seen,  A.O. Smith manufactured the landing gear assemblies for B-29's. They also manufactured propellers for many USAAF aircraft, including P-47's and P-61's. There are several well-known color photos of Enola Gay taken on Tinian that clearly show the nose gear assembly and wheel hubs in chromate yellow.

Mike

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Jordi,

 

Yep- good points all; sure makes something simple like painting a gear strut, wheel bay, or inner gear door surfaces "the" correct color an exercise in frustration- is this a great hobby or what?

Mike

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11 hours ago, 72modeler said:

I think what I had read was her nose gear assembly was originally chromate yellow, so that's how it was painted after being restored; then subsequently before she went on display at Dulles, information came to light that the strut should have been aluminum, so it was re-painted, but this turned out to be incorrect, but it was too late to rectify the mistake. ( IIRC, Dana Bell commented on this in a published article.) I'm pretty sure the Martin-built Silverplate B-29's had landing gear assemblies provided by other contractors, and were possibly delivered in primer- according to written production references I have seen,  A.O. Smith manufactured the landing gear assemblies for B-29's. They also manufactured propellers for many USAAF aircraft, including P-47's and P-61's. There are several well-known color photos of Enola Gay taken on Tinian that clearly show the nose gear assembly and wheel hubs in chromate yellow.

Mike

The 'over-spray' on the tire, in both color and B/W photos, suggest it was hastily applied and NOT during the Mfgr/assembly process.

Now what's NOT seen may be interesting as well.  IF and I say IF, painting was used to guide aircraft over bomb pit, was the MAIN gear painted in a similar fashion???  Or was the bomb loading procedure done such that ONLY the nose gear was focus point????

Those that were there at the time are getting fewer with each passing year!!

Bo

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A fellow Texan! Welcome to BM!

 

In the link I posted below, if you look at the period color and b&w photos of Enola Gay and Bockscar, you can clearly see the chromate primer applied to the nose gear assembly and the wheel hubs. No over spray visible, and in the b&w photo of Col. Tibbets  standing in front of Enola, there doesn't appear to be any over spray on the wheel hub. perhaps a tire change at some point resulted in a coat of primer being hastily applied to the nose wheels? Bottom line, as you said, the people who know have passed on or will be forever unknown. I don't have a B-29 in the queue, and even if I did, it would be "Thumper," but I remember when I visited the Silverhill MD storage/restoration facility back in the day, I walked all around the Enola Gay, as she was at that time under restoration, but I recall being surprised at the chromate nose gear assembly- though at the time I was thinking it was primered and awaiting its aluminum paint- don't remember the finish on the main gear. I shot  ten 36-exposure rolls of color slides of all the aircraft I could get to in the several buildings that made up the storage facility, but all of the film  mysteriously disappeared while with  the film processor, so everything I photographed was lost! (I'm thinking some idiot at the film lab was a modeler/enthusiast/thief!) It was a weird feeling standing next to the fuselage, which was completely restored, and putting my hands on the airplane that dropped the first nuclear weapon. I guess we all model  airplanes as they appeared at a given point in time, so a lot of variation is possible over an aircraft's lifetime.  As the unofficial BM motto states, "Never trust a profile without a photo!" Now, on to more pressing matters- anybody know the FS equivalent for the paint applied to the putt-putt APU in the back of a B-29? (Yes, I know I am one sick puppy!) 😜

Mike

 

https://www.thisdayinaviation.com/tag/silverplate/

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Demon.

 

The only flaw in that theory to me seems to be the fact that there are photos of non-Silverplate Project B-29's that also have chromate or neutral grey nose gear strut assemblies; plus I can't figure out what painting the nose gear assembly zinc chromate on the Silverplate Superforts would possibly have to do with loading the weapons from the pit to the bomb bay, as I guess the airplanes were pushed back by a tug over the pit for loading the weapon, It is an interesting puzzle that we will probably never be able to solve- but that's what puts the fun in scale modeling!

Mike

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Except the yellow is over sprayed on the nose wheel tire AND the National Areo Museum restoration didn’t paint it yellow either!!!

Appears  to be temporary and applied in hast. 

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2 hours ago, Demon said:

the National Areo Museum restoration didn’t paint it yellow either!!!

The nose gear assembly was chromate yellow, as observed during the start of the restoration, but the NASM restoration team painted it with aluminum paint, based on incorrect references, and by the time they realized their mistake, it was too late to correct, as I think I posted. Ain't no big thang, as we say here in Texas; the point that I was trying to make was that there are many photos of B-29's, both regular production and Silverplate, that had nose gear assemblies finished in different ways, so finding a photo of the specific B-29 a person wants to model would be the way to go, if accuracy at a certain point in time is a concern. My favorite B-29A, 42-24623 "Thumper," for example, had an aluminum-painted nose gear assembly with a neutral grey smooth wheel cover! So, how far are you from Squadron in Carollton?

Mike

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