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DH 88 Comet G-ACSS colours


rossm

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21 hours ago, rossm said:

"The Aeroplane" magazine of December 2017 as a source for the beige chosen for the overall colour in the kit

At the time the Comet was owned by a Fred Tasker.

The article states:

"Tasker wanted £1200 to hire the machine, and support was provided by clothing manufacturer Burberry. In recognition, the Comet was renamed The Burberry and painted in the company's beige house colours. Modifications were carried out in the name of weight-saving, the radio that was fitted for the Damascus race being removed, as were the motor-driven generators"

The ariticle is written by the Aeroplane editor and is based on contemporary reporting in The Aeroplane magazine, and whilst some parts of the article are direct quotes from the archives, this is not one of them, and no source is stated for painting the aircraft beige

When G-ACSS was rebuilt at Essex Aero as The Orphan the repaint is noted as being Morning Mist and Blue Cellon paints in Flight magazine

Flight's reporting of the Cape flight as The Burberry gives detailed lists of the equipment fitted and used, but makes no mention of a repaint.

There are quite a few photos of G-ACSS as The Orphan, The Burberry, and Australian Anniversary, the design and application of the paint scheme didn't change at all between the 3 variants, especially if you look at the rather awkward painting of the fuselage registration, and the darker rear decking and engine nacelle flashes. Only the titles and sponsorship logos / racing numbers change.

For the Cape attempt there were reported attempts at saving weight, so why add weight with a full repaint over a new scheme painted only a few months previously?

Burberry were sponsoring the flight, but it cost a lot of money to hire the aircraft, and it was nearly withdrawn on the day of the flight due to the hire cost being allegedly some £50 short. Insurance costs were also noted as being high, so this wasn't an open chequebook sponsorship, did the funds run to a full repaint? I suspect not.

It could be construed that the titles for The Burberry were painted in beige, but tonally they match the engine cowling flashes and registration/rear decking colours, if these weren't repainted it would make more sense that the titles were painted in the same blue as originally used. The logo shows up a slightly darker background than the titles and an emblem lighter than the overall airframe colour in some better photos, this could possibly be a beige (or gold) emblem on a burgundy (or dark blue) ground?

Both Pilots wore Burberry flight suits, Mrs Kirby-Green's in particular being very dark, so definitley not beige.

Flight again gives lots of details on equiment fitted for the Australian Anniversary flight, but doesn't give any notes on paint scheme, which I think has generally believed to be the same as The Orphan. If this was the case, and The Burberry was beige,  why repaint it again, adding yet more weight, making two complete repaints in only a few months?

Essex Aero also prepared her as The Burberry and Australian Anniversary and advertising for them and Cellon state Cellon paints were used. I suspect this refers to the original The Orphan scheme, with the nose repainted where appropriate with the original colours (maybe even from the same tin!) with new titles/sponsorship logo's as appropriate.

A repaint in beige doesn't make sense given the above, I've not seen any contemporary colour illustrations showing the beige colour, or found any contemporary reports of this either. The original report in The Aeroplane might mention this, but without direct reference or quote from this, I wouldn't read too much into the recent Aeroplane article statement.

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48 minutes ago, Dave Swindell said:

At the time the Comet was owned by a Fred Tasker.

The article states:

"Tasker wanted £1200 to hire the machine, and support was provided by clothing manufacturer Burberry. In recognition, the Comet was renamed The Burberry and painted in the company's beige house colours. Modifications were carried out in the name of weight-saving, the radio that was fitted for the Damascus race being removed, as were the motor-driven generators"

The ariticle is written by the Aeroplane editor and is based on contemporary reporting in The Aeroplane magazine, and whilst some parts of the article are direct quotes from the archives, this is not one of them, and no source is stated for painting the aircraft beige

When G-ACSS was rebuilt at Essex Aero as The Orphan the repaint is noted as being Morning Mist and Blue Cellon paints in Flight magazine

Flight's reporting of the Cape flight as The Burberry gives detailed lists of the equipment fitted and used, but makes no mention of a repaint.

There are quite a few photos of G-ACSS as The Orphan, The Burberry, and Australian Anniversary, the design and application of the paint scheme didn't change at all between the 3 variants, especially if you look at the rather awkward painting of the fuselage registration, and the darker rear decking and engine nacelle flashes. Only the titles and sponsorship logos / racing numbers change.

For the Cape attempt there were reported attempts at saving weight, so why add weight with a full repaint over a new scheme painted only a few months previously?

Burberry were sponsoring the flight, but it cost a lot of money to hire the aircraft, and it was nearly withdrawn on the day of the flight due to the hire cost being allegedly some £50 short. Insurance costs were also noted as being high, so this wasn't an open chequebook sponsorship, did the funds run to a full repaint? I suspect not.

It could be construed that the titles for The Burberry were painted in beige, but tonally they match the engine cowling flashes and registration/rear decking colours, if these weren't repainted it would make more sense that the titles were painted in the same blue as originally used. The logo shows up a slightly darker background than the titles and an emblem lighter than the overall airframe colour in some better photos, this could possibly be a beige (or gold) emblem on a burgundy (or dark blue) ground?

Both Pilots wore Burberry flight suits, Mrs Kirby-Green's in particular being very dark, so definitley not beige.

Flight again gives lots of details on equiment fitted for the Australian Anniversary flight, but doesn't give any notes on paint scheme, which I think has generally believed to be the same as The Orphan. If this was the case, and The Burberry was beige,  why repaint it again, adding yet more weight, making two complete repaints in only a few months?

Essex Aero also prepared her as The Burberry and Australian Anniversary and advertising for them and Cellon state Cellon paints were used. I suspect this refers to the original The Orphan scheme, with the nose repainted where appropriate with the original colours (maybe even from the same tin!) with new titles/sponsorship logo's as appropriate.

A repaint in beige doesn't make sense given the above, I've not seen any contemporary colour illustrations showing the beige colour, or found any contemporary reports of this either. The original report in The Aeroplane might mention this, but without direct reference or quote from this, I wouldn't read too much into the recent Aeroplane article statement.

Pretty much the same as my thoughts, Burberry only paid £250 of the cost as well as supplying clothing according to Clouston in his book "The Dangerous Skies" which makes it doubtful that a repaint would be done, especially as it was a hired aircraft and had been flown by Ken Walker in the Kings Cup in September 1937, so not exclusively piloted by Clouston. Having found a clearer version of one of the Getty photos in the book I wonder if the Burberry logo was in maroon although the name still looks like the blue shade. There also appears to be the name Burberry in tiny lettering under the knight in the logo, something not on any of the decals. Something else to put into my laser printed ones I guess, or else for the "life's too short" bin.

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Hi Ross @rossm,

On 8/13/2019 at 2:44 PM, PhoenixII said:

 

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52 minutes ago, PhoenixII said:

Hi Ross

 

Thanks for the link Paul, I took it from the first time of posting and here is my interpretation after a bit of hammering:

 

Untitled-1.jpg

 

Bear in mind that's at 1200dpi and your screen is lower resolution so it appears much bigger, in reality it's about 5mm wide when printed. It's probably going to need a white rectangle under it so I may yet go with the kit version with no lettering for simplicity even if accompanied by inaccuracy but preventing possible lunacy cutting decal sheet into tiny pieces.

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10 hours ago, rossm said:

here is my interpretation

Happy Birthday Ross!

Looks very good, and better than the kit version, but for 100% accuracy if you check the Getty images links in post 14, you will see the text actually reads BURBERRYS, not BURBERRY, (not shouting, the text is in caps)

However, as you say a couple of posts up, there comes a point where it falls into the lifes too short category.

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1 hour ago, Dave Swindell said:

Happy Birthday Ross!

Looks very good, and better than the kit version, but for 100% accuracy if you check the Getty images links in post 14, you will see the text actually reads BURBERRYS, not BURBERRY, (not shouting, the text is in caps)

However, as you say a couple of posts up, there comes a point where it falls into the lifes too short category.

Thanks for the wishes.

 

You can't read the lettering on my test print at 600dpi so the extra S is definitely LTS as it wasn't on the logo in Paul's link. I might print a blue version as well.

 

The links to the photo you mention and the one that appears in the book :-

 

https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/the-aviators-betty-kirby-green-and-charles-william-anderson-news-photo/503022801

 

https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/the-de-havilland-dh88-comet-burberry-at-gravesend-kent-before-its-picture-id88898882

 

Between them I just can't decide on the colours. The lighting and probably the film and possibly filtration will be different but in the first the logo and lettering look the same and in the second they could be the same or different. I fancy maroon logo and blue lettering just to stir the pot but I might chicken out and go with blue for both, note the pale colour of the lettering in this one

 

https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/flying-officer-arthur-clouston-and-betty-kirby-green-leave-news-photo/88897662

 

which is fairly convincing to me that it would be blue, early films being more sensitive to blue.

 

I'm about ready to print decals - my first ever attempt covering 5 different projects - if you want some I have room to squeeze some more in but let me know in the next couple of days. I'm ready to paint as soon as the mask set arrives and then I'll print the decals and see how they turn out.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Still not quite got it right.............

 

spacer.png

 

Ignoring the camera shake due to the lack of photons at 2.30 in the afternoon in this neck of the woods we have:-

 

Left - Whirlybird decals, quite a dark blue and "chunky" lettering

Bottom - kit decals, quite a pale blue (and no Burberry name/logo)

mid left - my decals supposedly matched to the Humrol blue above printed on clear sheet laid on Tamiya XF-19

mid right - my decals printed on white decal with a background supposedly matched to Tamiya XF-19

top right - Humbrol authentic WWI German blue

 

Now I'm not surprised my printed decals over XF-19 are darker than the ones printed on white decal film and, given my lack of a colour calibrated process I guess it's not surprising that neither hit the Humbrol colour. The poor match to XF-19 is a bit disappointing though. But the result is I'm not much better off than when I started as I think the paler blues match most of the photos better - the one in the hangar is an anomaly - maybe tungsten or sodium lights darkening the blue?

 

I think my best option is to try to add blue and white to XF-19 to match the backgound colour of my decals printed on white film then use the kit decals and my Burberry name/logo - maybe reprinting that with a bit more blue in the RGB mix to lighten / brighten it. I only used half the white sheet so I can turn it round and run it through the printer again.

 

Any other ideas?

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  • 5 weeks later...
4 hours ago, WhirlybirdModels said:

Just to let you know, the blue on the Whirlybird sheet was matched using (unofficial) sources at Burberry , so the darker colour is right to the best of our knowledge.

That is good to know. I bought some of your decals some years ago with the intent of using them to do it in its Aussie Anniversary scheme as Clouston  & Ricketts flew into an airfield near Blenheim, not far from where I am. 

Steve.

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I knew Tony quite well and I enjoyed many a conversation with him. His collection was sold at Christies and I have the catalogue of the sale, Here is a  scan from the catalogue.  Tony always strove for authenticity in his research.

 

John.

 

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18 minutes ago, John Aero said:

I knew Tony quite well and I enjoyed many a conversation with him. His collection was sold at Christies and I have the catalogue of the sale, Here is a  scan from the catalogue.  Tony always strove for authenticity in his research.

 

John.

 

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Thank you John, I remember being amazed by Tony's models when they appeared in Scale Models back when I was a teenager.

 

I remain slightly puzzled though as the model doesn't show the dark area behind the cockpit visible in https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/the-burberry-a-de-havilland-dh-88-comet-also-called-the-news-photo/88921343?adppopup=true and various photos in the Flight archive, currently offline so I cannot link to it.

 

In the end I think I have to be pragmatic and use what is available in order to prevent the model sitting around unfinished for ever. The easy way is to match the Whirlybird decals to a model paint colour so I can paint the canopy and spine and use the decals.

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48 minutes ago, WhirlybirdModels said:

Just found a company that will do small pots of Acrylic Pantone colours. Www.Riolettcustomaerosols.co.uk

Thank you.

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