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Hawker Turret Demon rear cockpit


Patrik

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Patrik,

I don't have any frame drawings for the radial engined versions but I I have noticed that the forwards cabane struts appear to be shorter on the radial versions indicating that the top longeron tubes behind the firewall are parallel to the fuselage datum and therefore not sloped down as on the Kestrel versions. The other frame changes are the gun mountings.   Bristol engines tend to have similar circular plate mountings carried on tubular frames, fixed to the firewall.

There might be some information from Swedish sources and I would be pleased to see any build or restoration pictures which might be available.

 

John

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I am sorry, John, you may have misunderstood my questions, I apologize for not expressing myself clearly. I am convinced that the frames differed between the in-line and radial versions. The question was, if it would be safe to assume that the frames of e.g. Swedish Hart and Persian Hind were identical,

 

Patrik 

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Patrik

 

As usual I've found some information in my own library. Re post 26 the only one I've found with the shorter forwards cabane struts is in fact the PV.4 (so out of the scope of this discussion).

 

I have found an excellent cutaway by Tordtsein Landstrom which confirms that the Swedish Hart has the same identical frame, aft of the firewall as other versions. On some photos of other radial versions the extra bulkiness of the fuselage to fair in the wider spaced and re-positioned guns make the cabane struts look different. I would have to agree that the engine mountings of Pegasus and Mercury versions would have been much the same as the crankcases and mounting ring of these two engines are virtually the same.

 

John

 

 

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  • 3 years later...

I realise this is resurrecting a 3 year old post, but I am looking to create a ‘turret’ Demon as part of my ‘Aircraft of 29(F) Squadron’ themed builds.  I have the Kora model but, more recently, purchased the AMG Hawker Demon.  The kit provides 2 cockpit options - the second being for a Hart I believe.  My plan is to modify this second option to create the ‘turret’ Demon although the fuselage to the rear will need trimming.  I also realised the Kora turret is somewhat ‘over square’ when compared to the photographs available; to that end, I have been designing my own turret for printing.

This is a first attempt although I made some dimensional errors.  Since then, I have created a superior version with much finer panels but I’ve not taken a photo of the CAD design.

 

This, at least, gives you an idea of the possibilities of a reasonable facsimile of the Demon turret.

 

so let me re-emphasise, this was prototype 1 created with some erroneous measurements which I realised when I added the turret ring - the forward part of the turret projects too far forward!.  Prototype 2 is far superior and each ‘leaf’ of the shell is much finer.  Photos available when I get home from hols.

 

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I’ve thought of a, possible, better way of creating the leaves of the ‘lobster back’ and if it works I will be able to create the ‘turret’ at any setting up to fully ‘open’.  Frustratingly, I cannot try out my idea for a while.

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Yes, of course, but these days I find such fiddle too difficult, plus I can add the ‘chassis’ part and, if my end result is in error, all I have to do is modify the drawing rather than start again.  There is one other aspect, it is repeatable  - if someone else is doing the same conversion I can supply a printed turret.

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17 minutes ago, Work In Progress said:

Is 3D printing actually a worthwhile way of doing the separate segments? Given that the whole thing is made of flat sheet sections bent around a simple curve would that not be a simpler and easier way to go about it?

Oh, forgot to mention that photographs show that it isn’t quite as ‘simple’ in design as you think - I had considered using styrene sheet shaped around a ball bearing originally, vacformed even.

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Glad this got kicked up, there's some great stuff here.

 

I started a run at converting an Aeroclub Demon to a Turret Demon a good while back. It's been off to one side unfinished ever since. After seeing this, I'm going to at least take it out and look at it a bit....

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This is interesting, I was thinking of getting the Kora kit, as the camouflaged Turret Demon has always intrigued me since seeing it in the first part of 'Fighting Colours' in the Airfix Magazine when I was about 13 in 1967. If it comes off would you be selling any?

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24 minutes ago, Mr T said:

This is interesting, I was thinking of getting the Kora kit, as the camouflaged Turret Demon has always intrigued me since seeing it in the first part of 'Fighting Colours' in the Airfix Magazine when I was about 13 in 1967. If it comes off would you be selling any?

Mr T,

  I have the KORA kit but I really cannot recommend it (I’ll sell you mine if you want), I would suggest trying to find the AMG model, it is delightful as far as I can see from the sprues.  You can see what I do to mine to change it to a ‘turret’ Demon later in the year.  Indeed, if my 3D turret works out OK I can make it available ……

 

It is only the turret that I am doing, in case you mis interpreted.

 

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2 hours ago, Mr T said:

This is interesting, I was thinking of getting the Kora kit, as the camouflaged Turret Demon has always intrigued me since seeing it in the first part of 'Fighting Colours' in the Airfix Magazine when I was about 13 in 1967. If it comes off would you be selling any?

 

 

That's the one I have in mind as well. It's a weird thing to see.

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13 hours ago, TeeELL said:

Mr T,

  I have the KORA kit but I really cannot recommend it (I’ll sell you mine if you want), I would suggest trying to find the AMG model, it is delightful as far as I can see from the sprues.  You can see what I do to mine to change it to a ‘turret’ Demon later in the year.  Indeed, if my 3D turret works out OK I can make it available ……

 

It is only the turret that I am doing, in case you mis interpreted.

 

Thanks, I realised it was only the turret you were doing, and if it is anything like the Javelin bits I have it will be a corker. AMG Demons seem to be a bit like hens teeth in the UK. 

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On 2/13/2023 at 10:37 AM, Herb said:

Another recommendation for the expensive but beautifully done AMG kit. And can anyone post a picture of the camouflaged example you're all mentioning? 

 

 

rrSfARm.png

 

From the old 'Camouflage and Markings' number on the biplane types.

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I would like to build my ‘turret Demon’ as a camouflaged version but the only photos I can find of 29(F) Sqn aircraft show them in the aluminium finish.  ‘On Silver Wings’ has a throw away line suggesting they were camouflaged but unless a photo turns up I will have to go with the aluminium finish.

I am away from home just now, back shortly.  I will start my own thread on the conversion, I have an Airfix Demon as well and might look at what is required to turn that into a turret version as well - we will see.

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  • 4 months later...
On 2/28/2023 at 12:47 PM, europapete said:

Will definately follow along with that one. I have a few Silver Wings 1/32 Harts and Demons in the stash, one of which is destined to be a Turret Demon eventually.

Completely forgot about this!  I will try to remember to post the photos.  If you like the look of the turret I can ‘up-scale’ the turret and operating mechanism to 1:32!

the is a couple of photos of the finished (well nearly finished’ item in the ‘ready for inspection’ section.

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  • 1 month later...

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