1/48 Curtiss P-36/H-75 Hawk from Eduard

[Mike Esposito]

I thought this thread was about the p-36?

[SleeperService]

4 hours ago, Mike Esposito said:

I thought this thread was about the p-36?

Yes, it is. The apparent off-topic bit is to do with speculated time of release and where it might fit in with other announced projects. Some Eduard (and other manufacturers too) projects seem to get delayed endlessly  while others appear in very short order. 

[2996 Victor]

Any news on this?

[Work In Progress]

Nope. Don't hold your breath.

[2996 Victor]

2 hours ago, Work In Progress said:

Nope. Don't hold your breath.

Ah well, maybe Clear Prop will come to the rescue!

 

Cheers,

Mark 

[Piotr Mikolajski]

On 4/9/2023 at 9:40 PM, 2996 Victor said:

Any news on this?

 

This was never an official announcement, as were many others, such as the re-doing of the P-39.

I don't know if it's a language issues or the result of careless reading or just wishful thinking. In any case, Mr Sulc often talks about what they are considering, what they would be happy to do and so on, but none of this is an announcement. Some modellers, on the other hand, consider the mention of a type not only as an announcement, but even as information about work in progress/finishing on a project.

 

From experience, it can be said that considerations on Modelforum are very loose and should not be taken too seriously. On the other hand, announcements ("we have started work on X" / "we are planning the release of Y") published in Eduard Info can be taken as official and serious.

[2996 Victor]

10 hours ago, Piotr Mikolajski said:

 

This was never an official announcement, as were many others, such as the re-doing of the P-39.

I don't know if it's a language issues or the result of careless reading or just wishful thinking. In any case, Mr Sulc often talks about what they are considering, what they would be happy to do and so on, but none of this is an announcement. Some modellers, on the other hand, consider the mention of a type not only as an announcement, but even as information about work in progress/finishing on a project.

 

From experience, it can be said that considerations on Modelforum are very loose and should not be taken too seriously. On the other hand, announcements ("we have started work on X" / "we are planning the release of Y") published in Eduard Info can be taken as official and serious.

That makes sense - thanks for clarifying it. Probably, as you say, wishful thinking, but it could be a good opportunity for Eduard to take if they were interested.

 

Cheers,

Mark

[Piotr Mikolajski]

1 hour ago, 2996 Victor said:

That makes sense - thanks for clarifying it. Probably, as you say, wishful thinking, but it could be a good opportunity for Eduard to take if they were interested.

 

If I remember correctly, Eduard has four CAD designers working on plastic kits. Three are working on models in 1/48, one in 1/72. At the moment, the projects in 1/48 not released yet, that we are aware of, are the final versions of the Bf 109G/K, remaining variants of Wildcat, later variants of Zero, the Avia S.199, the next versions of the MiG-21, the Hawker Hurricane family, the P-51 family (A-C + A-36) and the Blanik glider.

 

How many projects are being developed, that no one has mentioned yet, is secret of the company. But just the ones mentioned above will fill the release schedule for a few years.

 

On top of that, all the machinery and technical staff will be moved to the new building, which means that no new moulds will be created for a few months.

[Nanond]

In addition to what has been mentioned, I suspect that the fact that Clearprops released their Hawk75 (and appears to have more variants planned) in 2021/22 only pushes the urgency to work on their own version even further if Eduard actually had that thought. Given that the long-announced and much-anticipated Bf109K has not seen the light of day, it will be more than a few years before Eduard exhausts all the variants of Zero, P-51, and Wildcat. 

[JFM148]

26 minutes ago, Nanond said:

In addition to what has been mentioned, I suspect that the fact that Clearprops released their Hawk75 (and appears to have more variants planned) in 2021/22 only pushes the urgency to work on their own version even further if Eduard actually had that thought. Given that the long-announced and much-anticipated Bf109K has not seen the light of day, it will be more than a few years before Eduard exhausts all the variants of Zero, P-51, and Wildcat. 

In that same line of thought, I guess the 1/48 Hurricane Eduard project will be "reviewed" after ARMA's announcement of their much anticipated Hurricane...I guess it will depend on the work already invested on their Hurricane line... 

[Piotr Mikolajski]

Excuse me, but where do you get these fantasies from?

[TheKinksFan]

I think Hurricane as an A-list aircraft is so popular subject that Eduard will release their Hurricane series, regardless how popular Arma Hobby's Hurricane proves to be. P-36 is not an 'iconic' aircraft, like P-40 or Hurricane is.

[Piotr Mikolajski]

23 minutes ago, TheKinksFan said:

I think Hurricane as an A-list aircraft is so popular subject that Eduard will release their Hurricane series, regardless how popular Arma Hobby's Hurricane proves to be.

 

Let's start with the fact that Eduard is not driven by what the competition is doing. Which, by the way, Mr Sulc has written and spoken about many times.

 

Eduard wants to make a family of Hurricanes. What does that mean? Looking at their family of early Spitfires, it can be assumed with a high degree of probability that within the Hurricane family they will release versions I to IV with various production variants, plus maybe a Sea Hurricane(s). Researching an entire family on an aircraft takes months, creating a 3D design takes months, producing a dozen or so moulds - I will remind you that their Bf 109F/G/K in 1/72 required 14 moulds - takes months. And all of this costs a lot of money. Such business decisions are not made by anyone because they have had too many beers yesterday, nor are such projects abandoned because the competition has released one kit.

 

If any Hurricane can spoil Eduard's mood, it is the kit from Hobby Boss. Looking at the previews, the price difference between the Wildcat from Eduard and HB's Hurricane I looks negligible. What's more important, Hobby Boss can afford to lower price, especially when their investment will be paid off. On top of that, the company has announced several boxes of later versions, and with good global distribution of their products, it could make a fuss.

 

To date, Eduard has not officially announced the P-36 (as well as the P-38, the new P-39 tooling, the P-40 and so on), instead a number of other projects are known to be in the works, each with a couple of years of selling different boxes. And the sales of each novelty will be stretched out over the years, because releasing multiple boxes at the same time means that they will be competing with each other, and that is simply senseless. This is why the Bf 109K is still not on sale - not only was this model not prepared in the initial design phase, but it takes some time to produce the moulds, and on top of that Eduard still has other versions to release plus the family of Avia S.199.

 

Unless, by some miracle, Eduard has P-36 moulds prepared in secret, waiting to be filled with plastic, I would not expect this model in the next few years. And if Clear Prop releases its next versions of the P-36, this theoretical P-36 project from Eduard will move further down the queue.

 

Although they have announced a surprise at the end of this year, it is not even clear what scale it is to be on, let alone what it will be. In previous years have shown designs that have not been released so far, such as the two-seater Cmelak. If a surprise is announced for the end of the year, it is more likely to be such a single project rather than a large family of kits with multiple versions.

[TEXANTOMCAT]

Eduard have clearly worked with Arma in the past- and reboxed their 1/72 Hurri- if the Arma 1/48 is the new benchmark perchance they will release it too in their own boxes- I’d warrant they have a bigger sales reach and Hurricane schemes are endless 

[Mike]

4 hours ago, Piotr Mikolajski said:

Excuse me, but where do you get these fantasies from?

Can you please remember that polite and respectful is something that we require from all members.  There are plenty of ways to say the same thing without appearing condescending or disrespectful.

[Troy Smith]

1 hour ago, Piotr Mikolajski said:

If any Hurricane can spoil Eduard's mood, it is the kit from Hobby Boss. Looking at the previews, the price difference between the Wildcat from Eduard and HB's Hurricane I looks negligible. What's more important, Hobby Boss can afford to lower price, especially when their investment will be paid off. On top of that, the company has announced several boxes of later versions, and with good global distribution of their products, it could make a fuss.

from what I have seen online of the HB Hurricane, it is based on the research used for the 1/24th Trumpeter kit, which is very good shape wise.

The versions announced are identical too., mid/let Mk.I, Mk.IIC, Mk.IIC trop and Mk.IID (which use the C wing) 

While they are very good they are covered in recessed rivets.  And they will not cover various small details, I think they get confused on radiators and carb intakes.  

No Mk.IIA or Mk.IIB or Mk.IV.    And, the Hobby Boss decals will be worthless.  

 

So, they have have the basis for being good models, but there is certainly room for improvement. 

From what I have seen of the Arma kit so far,  it's going to be the best in scale so far, as their 72nd kits are, but it also depends on Arma's plans.

As has been discussed here https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235077295-hawker-hurricane-mk-iic-148-arma-hobby/page/5/#elControls_4661743_menu

 

 

 

[Piotr Mikolajski]

17 hours ago, Mike said:

Can you please remember that polite and respectful is something that we require from all members.  There are plenty of ways to say the same thing without appearing condescending or disrespectful.

 

Sorry, that wasn't meant to sound patronising or negative in any way. I'm genuinely curious why so many people prefer to tell stories that have a rather loose connection with reality instead of discussing facts. Especially in case of an industry-leading company that has had a very open information policy for many years.

 

We are talking about a company that has been on the market for more than thirty years, with thousands of products it has developed, including more than a hundred new tool kits. A company that does virtually all of its production in-house - from research, design, mould production, decal design and printing, PE design and etching, resin desing and casting or printing, all of which is world-leading in terms of quality and precision.

What's the point of writing that a company with such huge and unique experience will suddenly "think twice" about continuing to make a huge investment in a new project just because a small company with a completely different approach to design, and with incomparably less technical and financial capacity, will make their kit? 

 

The same phenomenon of omitting facts also applies to announcements of the release of new kits, industry condition, sales volume, costs & prices and so on. Eduard has been publishing the free monthly "Eduard Info" for more than a dozen years, where in the editorial Mr Sulc writes about many topics concerning both the industry as a whole and the condition of the company and its plans. Here are just a few samples:

 

2019/08 — about the company's philosophy of subject selection and project attitude

Back to the Mustang. Besides the much overwhelming words of support, there has also been the usual "why a Mustang? We have enough Mustangs, there’s no need for more." Yes. That’s how it might appear. Over the life of our hobby, there have been a lot of 48th scale Mustangs and all of their incarnations are consistent with the technology of the time in which they were released. Until now, the best available, with all do respect to our British and Chinese colleagues, was the release by Tamiya in the nineties. Excellent model. I built it myself, and I enjoyed every minute of it. But today, a model of the Mustang can be made better to adhere to current expectations in terms of detail, both internal and surface. This is something, I think, we have become quite good at, and this is why we produce models of subjects that others have done, usually to the extent that the technology of the day allowed. We are trying to do the same thing... produce kits that today’s technology allows. We could focus on kits no one has done before, like, say, a Lockheed Vega. It would be beautiful, but something tells me that it wouldn’t resonate as much as a Mustang or a Hurricane.

 

2019/09 — about the volume of sales and what reliable information looks like, which, however, is not an announcement

The end of August saw the sell out of the first boxing of the Mustang kit, a total of 6700 kits with the title Chattanooga Choo Choo, released as a Limited Edition kit on the occasion of the American IPMS National convention in Chattanooga, Tennessee. The show itself was very nice, held in a very nice town. The interest in the Mustang was huge, both at the show, and on the internet. We sold a thousand kits in 24 hours, which, at the moment, represents a record for us in terms of a single item sale, and the overall sales for this kit are also the best to date for a Limited Edition release of a kit. Discussions around the Mustang are continuing at a feverish pace, and inevitably touch on the distant future to cover any possible release of the P-51B/C as well as a scaling down to 1:72nd scale. This will all happen, but the timing of these items cannot yet be nailed down with any precision.

 

2019-10 — about the complexity of Eduard kits

While on the topic of the Kettle discussion, besides new items in the works, one of the most discussed themes was the complexity of out models. This is, to a large extent, fed by reviewers over the last while, where we have had this idea handed to us by, especially, Czech modellers, who are asking for somewhat simpler, more "relaxing", builds. They point to our Japanese competitors as examples with which to back up their points. But when I take a close look at these Japanese kits, and begin gluing them together, it really doesn’t appear that there is such a huge gap between them and our products, in terms of complexity. When I look at other aspects of the inevitable comparison, I confess that, yes, there is a difference. There, their kits are simpler, without a doubt. Their decals and related options, and other inclusions in the kits, correspond to our Weekend Edition concept, and taking into account our ProfiPACK kit price point, their bang for the buck drops off quickly. If you consider, for a moment, that our ProfiPACK sales are somewhere around double that of the Weekend kits of the same subject, I dare take from that that the added complexity doesn’t get too much in the way of too many modellers. I am also beginning to suspect that there is a difference of opinion between us and the reviewers surrounding the topic of what modellers find important. They tend to focus on simplicity and the "relaxation" requirement of a build, while we, on the other hand, suspect that the biggest demand on a build is to gain a sense of satisfaction, not necessarily relaxation from it. If you want relaxation, buy a hammock and move your TV outdoors. Without that satisfaction, it amounts to the same thing. This is why we design our kits to stimulate the need for attention and focus. I think that the requirements placed on a kit by the reviewers as a whole are legit, but maybe slightly misplaced. If you are in the market for a boring... excuse me, I mean "simple", model, go where they know how to make them. We do not possess that know-how.

 

2019-12 — about the decision-making process and what the actual announcement looks like

It should be said that the Royal Class P-51D kit gave us a bit of a "what for". The markings options selection alone was a complicated process. After extended discussions back and forth, it was finally decided to only focus on the fighter variants, and to leave out the photo reconnaissance F-6Ds. That will be a stand-alone ProfiPACK kit at the end of the year coming. As a result, the Royal Class kit has held on to the fighter versions of the P-51D from various production blocks, the P-51K and the British Mustang Mk.IV. The kit also includes long range tanks that were used in the Pacific, and these are included as a separate sprue, not as resin parts!

 

2020-01 — about the 1/32 scale kits

In May, we will be releasing a 1:32nd scale ProfiPACK Bf 108. It is not from our original moulds, these hail from a company named Foke, and they normally are seriously involved with the manufacture of industrial robots. This was originally a bit of a side venture for the firm, and they came to the conclusion that it wasn’t their cup of tea, and so we were able to by the Tajfun from them. The good news is that we can offer this kit in 1:32nd scale, but the bad news is that there is not much in the way that would point towards more 32nd scale releases from our company. That is, unless the Bf 108 suggests a big market for such kits, or someone doesn’t offer to sell us such moulds in the future. And neither is out of the question.

 

And so I could quote month after month, each time pointing out interesting information. In the next issue there was a very long story on the changes in the modelling industry since the 1990s, debunking many of the myths that not only a lot of people believe, but keep repeating, including threads here on BM. In August 2020 issue there was behind the scenes information about the early Spitfire project in 1/48. In December 2020 issue, just before the big fire, there is interesting information about Eduard Space 3D decals and changes to the Weekend product line.

 

Most of these subjects are discussed repeatedly in the various threads about Eduard's kits, but it is rarely what Mr Sulc writes. Instead of facts, it is much more common to see stories about how someone imagines things, or even conspiracy theories. Why? I don't know, but I would really like to find out. Is it - for all sorts of reasons - too difficult or impossible to read such an editorial once a month, or is it that people don't want to read it because the first-hand information shatters their long-established ideas about the modelling industry?

[JFM148]

I apologize if I offended anyone with my "average modeller" comment.  That is why I said in my comment "I guess" and it was meant to be that... just a comment.  

 

 

 

[dragonlanceHR]

It will be interesting to see if Eduard will choose Jun Temma's drawings or late Joel Ducasse's. There are subtle differences between the two.

[AaCee26]

On 4/17/2023 at 11:20 PM, dragonlanceHR said:

It will be interesting to see if Eduard will choose Jun Temma's drawings or late Joel Ducasse's. There are subtle differences between the two.

I don't think Eduard would do so. They likely make more their own study instead of relaying a single set of drawings.

 

Cheers,

 

AaCee.

[Tbolt]

6 hours ago, AaCee26 said:

I don't think Eduard would do so. They likely make more their own study instead of relaying a single set of drawings.

 

Cheers,

 

AaCee.

 

You mean measure a real aircraft and then get it wrong? 😂

 

 

[AaCee26]

On 4/29/2023 at 11:00 PM, Tbolt said:

You mean measure a real aircraft and then get it wrong? 😂

Sure! It is more professional to make own mistakes instead of copying others!

 

Cheers,

 

AaCee