Westland Lysander post war

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Hello everyone... I normally don't venture into civil aircraft to often, but had some questions about Westland Lysander's. Did anyone ever use these as Bush planes post war ? Possibly in Canada, Alaska, Australia, New Zealand, or in Africa ? It seems like the type would have been perfectly suitable for bush flying ? If so does anyone know of any photo's or maybe profiles ? Also does anyone know whether or not they could be mounted on floats ? 

 

Dennis

[k5054nz]

New Zealand has never had a Lysander and I doubt Australia has either. Canada, on the other hand, had a few surplus examples converted to agricultural aircraft for spraying and the like. I think I've seen a Brian Baker build of one in 1/72 with spray gear. I don't believe any were used as bushplanes but am happy to be proven wrong.

[busnproplinerfan]

I was looking for post war Lizzies awhile back. There was a few made into sprayers in Alberta. They were painted yellow. I did find a few pictures of them, one I know of was restored. https://modelingmadness.com/review/civil/bakerlys.htm Here's the link to the one made by Brian Baker. It's all I could find on it. I'm surprised they weren't used as bush planes(yes prove me wrong if you can) I guess the Beavers and others were more popular. Could make a what if.

Edited August 7, 2019 by busnproplinerfan

[Orso]

 

I built a Canadian Lizzie as I liked the yellow scheme on it.

 

 

[Timbo88]

A fascinating use of the dear old Lysander, and a lovely model too.

It seems that the engine may have been the main reason for the types limited use post war by civilian companies; too powerful and expensive to operate given the possible payload. A shame in my opinion.

[Admiral Puff]

Definitely no Australian ones; the RAAF didn't bring any out here (although I think 3RAAF operated one or two in North Africa).

[Work In Progress]

The thing is, it's a purpose built military aeroplane with very specialised intentions and almost disastrously uneconomic aircraft to operate in a civilian context - even before you start to deal with the rather undesirable handling characteristics.  The reason that no-one designing a 900 horsepower aeroplane for the actual work bush flying came out with anything like a Lysander is not a coincidence!

 

It only made sense for a few operators to try because they were getting the aircraft almost for free as Canadian war surplus and could scrap them when they started going wrong rather than pay for maintenance. And those were in crop-dusting applications rather than toting passengers or freight - where the casualty rate for airframes was high in any case.

 

If you want to see what a successful bush aeroplane of superficially similar size and configuration should be like, check out the DHC-3 Otter, which makes do with a 600 hp engine rather than 900 hp, yet carries 10 people instead of, say, four at a serious squeeze.  And doesn't try to kill you on a missed approach.

 

If you want to carry the small number of people who can be crammed into a Lysander in and out of grass or gravel strips commercially in the early post-war era, then a far better choice is something like a Fairchild 24, which does the job on anything between 145 hp and 200 hp depending on variant, and is also available as US military surplus in large numbers at the end of WW2

 

Edited August 8, 2019 by Work In Progress

[Graham Boak]

You fail to mention the Canadian-built and very readily available postwar Norseman, possibly the archetypal bush plane, long before Beavers and Otters.

[dogsbody]

4 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

You fail to mention the Canadian-built and very readily available postwar Norseman, possibly the archetypal bush plane, long before Beavers and Otters.

 

Agreed! The Norseman was being built pre-war and over 800 were produced for the US. Why would you use an aircraft that wasn't designed as a bushplane when one was readily available in some quantity and at a good price, plus you could still buy a brand new one if you wanted.

 

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noorduyn_Norseman

 

 

Chris

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Oh I agree 110% with the Norseman, Beaver, and Otter as some of the best Bush-planes ever. I was just curious to know if there was any Lysander's ever used postwar in the Bush plane role. I never thought about the high hp as a negative factor. I also assumed between the cargo pod and the rear cockpit  you might be able to use them to bring a hunting or fishing party, or possibly as an flying doctor service ? I never knew they were used as crop dusters, so overall I'm learning something here. 

 

Dennis

[Work In Progress]

26 minutes ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

 I also assumed between the cargo pod and the rear cockpit  you might be able to use them to bring a hunting or fishing party, or possibly as an flying doctor service ?

Dennis

Well, you could have done, but only at ruinous expense and being generally sub-optimal for the job. Look at it this way: you could in theory run a civilian ambulance service using a fleet of FV432 armoured personnel carriers, but it wouldn't make a lot of sense given that there are far more appropriate machines available for the task in hand.

 

People tend to look at the Lysander and go "High wing monoplane" and mentally lump it in with things like Austers, Cubs, the Stinson L-5, the Fairchild Argus and other things derived from civilian light aircraft. But the Lysander is not that kind of aircraft at all.

Edited August 8, 2019 by Work In Progress

[dogsbody]

One of the more useful aspects of the Norseman was it's ability to be fitted with floats. In northern Canada, even in the present day, there are a lot of lakes for a floatplane to land on but few airstrips have been carved out of the aboreal forests. I've never even heard of a Lysander on floats. 

 

 

Chris

[Work In Progress]

If anything could make a Lysander harder to fly, that would be it

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

49 minutes ago, dogsbody said:

One of the more useful aspects of the Norseman was it's ability to be fitted with floats. In northern Canada, even in the present day, there are a lot of lakes for a floatplane to land on but few airstrips have been carved out of the aboreal forests. I've never even heard of a Lysander on floats. 

 

Chris

That was one of my questions. I had wondered if it had ever been trialled or even considered as a paper project.  

 

50 minutes ago, Work In Progress said:

If anything could make a Lysander harder to fly, that would be it

As demonstrated my knowledge of the Lizzie is very small. Im just attempting to educate myself as to what if any use they could/would have been. I made the silly assumption because they had been used in STOL situations, that they might've been useful in bush use.   

[DennisTheBear]

Hmm, interesting discussion. One thought that springs (well, ok, with my expanding waistline more like slouches) to mind is whether the Lysander might have continued in use for its role as an agent delivery system, perhaps into Soviet territory.

 

After all James Bond had to get there somehow.

 

DennisTheBear