Whitley Mk III - Fly 1/72

[general melchett]

The seam line couldn't be in a worse place, make a note of the window positions, dip the parts in Klear, CA and wet-sand smooth, (obviously being careful to avoid any flattening). Personally I'd ditch the clear parts and replace with a section of suitably sized clear perspex/acrylic tube. A heavy old contraption, bet they were glad when the N&T powered turret became available and they could ditch the thing.

I think you're right, it doesn't look like there are any masks for the turret on that sheet.

[CedB]

Thanks Boss - I also remembered Martian's window method and applied the CA:

 

 

It'll be fine. Ahem 

[giemme]

2 hours ago, CedB said:

It'll be fine. Ahem 

Interesting....

 

Ciao

[Brandy]

21 hours ago, hendie said:

 

That just sums up the friendliness of this forum. There are even those who are willing to send a little pussy to fellow members.

Personally I don't do pets, they mess with plastic things!

 

😉Ian

[CedB]

Thanks Giorgio and Ian

 

The thin CA shrank in the slot that the kit would have you fit the Browning into. 

Topped it up with some thicker-thin CA.

 

I'm going to use some Oramask to trace the windows and use as a mask later. I bet if I try that now it'll stick to the CA.

 

I think I need to leave the CA to dry overnight. 

[hendie]

personally I'd go with @general melchett's suggestion of a clear tube or similar - much easier in the long run.

I've no idea what diameter that *ahem* turret is, but what about a clear biro or other writing implement - is the diameter of that close?

[CedB]

Thanks hendie - Ah, the suggestion of a proper modeller with a big stock of spares.

I'm not there, yet!   

[Heather Kay]

I s'pose, if the transparency malarkey doesn’t work out, the ventral dustbin could always be modelled shut.

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

18 hours ago, CedB said:

What's the best thing to hide that seam do we think? CA? I'll need to polish the 'glass' anyway I think before I apply the masks.

Could you use a single piece of clear tube ? Maybe they sell a hollow clear plastic tubing, something like this ? 

 

https://www.amazon.com/Lees-Pet-Products-ALE16005-Aquarium/dp/B0002APYRM/ref=asc_df_B0002APYRM/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198071232162&hvpos=1o11&hvnetw=g&hvrand=3476524940834066074&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9021610&hvtargid=pla-403472534567&psc=1

 

According to the add the sizes go down to 3/16 of an inch. I think that might work ? Then i would cut it to length and use the masks. You could glue or drill then glue the gun barrels in ? Seems a lot better than having a seam running down the middle of a window. 

 

Dennis

Edited August 8, 2019 by Corsairfoxfouruncle

[The Spadgent]

Page four eh? Blimey. 🥳

I’ll creep in over here in the corner. I’ve been looking at the new Airfix one for a while. This one looks fun so I’ll learn a lot. Turret looks scary in real life as well as the kit part. Has it gone all misty? Say it ain’t so.  Good luck Mr B.  Looks like it’s going to be one hell of a ride. 👍🥰.

 

Johnny.

[Max Headroom]

16 hours ago, limeypilot said:

Personally I don't do pets, they mess with plastic things!

Ask me how I know

 

 

Trevor 

 

[Aeronut]

15 hours ago, Heather Kay said:

I s'pose, if the transparency malarkey doesn’t work out, the ventral dustbin could always be modelled shut.

Or just left off totally, leaving the hole for the paratroops to jump from as they did at PTS RAF Ringway. There were also Whitley’s there that had the rear turret removed as well - another piece of Fly’s ‘clear’ plastic you wouldn’t the fret over. 😊

[perdu]

wow

 

blimey

 

and omigod

 

Ced old bean, you will still have the seam even after polishing the stupogoo to perfection

 

Suggest we, your friends cast around in our spare clear plastic hidey holes to find you a substitute

Please introduce your shiney caliper gauge to the debri  kit part, draw  the dimensions on a bit of paper and post it here

 

(Sorry if I am interfering with brown and green builds but a mate in trouble is a mate)

[CedB]

15 hours ago, Heather Kay said:

I s'pose, if the transparency malarkey doesn’t work out, the ventral dustbin could always be modelled shut.

Thanks Heather, always good to have a 'Plan B'  

 

14 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Could you use a single piece of clear tube ? Maybe they sell a hollow clear plastic tubing, something like this ? 

 

https://www.amazon.com/Lees-Pet-Products-ALE16005-Aquarium/dp/B0002APYRM/ref=asc_df_B0002APYRM/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198071232162&hvpos=1o11&hvnetw=g&hvrand=3476524940834066074&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9021610&hvtargid=pla-403472534567&psc=1

 

According to the add the sizes go down to 3/16 of an inch. I think that might work ? Then i would cut it to length and use the masks. You could glue or drill then glue the gun barrels in ? Seems a lot better than having a seam running down the middle of a window. 

 

Dennis

Thanks Dennis  I've had a look in the UK. These guys have lots of plastic stock at reasonable price and 10mm tube is 98p for 100mm but there's £4.95 postage. I baulk at paying more for postage than the item and can't think of what I'd do with loads more plastic at the moment… Good to have a 'Plan C' though.

 

1 hour ago, The Spadgent said:

Page four eh? Blimey. 🥳

I’ll creep in over here in the corner. I’ve been looking at the new Airfix one for a while. This one looks fun so I’ll learn a lot. Turret looks scary in real life as well as the kit part. Has it gone all misty? Say it ain’t so.  Good luck Mr B.  Looks like it’s going to be one hell of a ride. 👍🥰.

 

Johnny.

Thanks Johnny  It did go misty, damn it. I picked up my bottle of Roket Odourless (which doesn't cloud) but the top had cracked around the screw thread and, despite careful closing, the whole bottle has gone hard. I've ordered another but used the Zap thin instead - it clouded. My bad.  

 

1 hour ago, Max Headroom said:

Ask me how I know

[snip picture]

 

Trevor 

Thanks Trevor - Cat attack! Reminds me of the old Goodies episode  

 

22 minutes ago, Aeronut said:

Or just left off totally, leaving the hole for the paratroops to jump from as they did at PTS RAF Ringway. There were also Whitley’s there that had the rear turret removed as well - another piece of Fly’s ‘clear’ plastic you wouldn’t the fret over. 😊

Thanks Aeronut  Always good to have a 'Plan…' (where are we now?) 'Plan D'…

 

16 minutes ago, perdu said:

wow

 

blimey

 

and omigod

 

Ced old bean, you will still have the seam even after polishing the stupogoo to perfection

 

Suggest we, your friends cast around in our spare clear plastic hidey holes to find you a substitute

Please introduce your shiney caliper gauge to the debri  kit part, draw  the dimensions on a bit of paper and post it here

 

(Sorry if I am interfering with brown and green builds but a mate in trouble is a mate)

Thanks Bill  Are you not following 'brown and green' builds then? That's most of my stuff! 

Always pleased to see you here and thanks for the suggestion. Here's the measurements:

 

 

 

'Measure twice, cut once' eh? It's not round. The plastic parts it fits into DO have round dents at about 9.5mm so let's go for that eh?

 

I also took hendie's advice and looked through the 'that might come in' pile:

 

 

Nothing. But the 'bags of pens' I cleared out of my desk drawer:

 

 

… uncovered this fine example from IBM:

 

 

I'll take it apart, carefully, and see what we have.

Always good to have a 'Plan E'.

 

 

This morning I've also marked the windows with a fine pen:

 

 

They don't line up. Rats.

Also we don't have a picture of the 'business end' of the turret but I guess there'd be a big window there? I'll plan for that - who'd know if it was wrong??!!

[CedB]

Not easy to take apart ('Swiss Made' it says on the side - quality) but it's too big:

 

 

If anyone has some 9.5mm clear tube I'd appreciate it.

Or I could buy some of that stuff off the 'net and swallow the postage.

 

OR, do you think I could bend some sheet into the right shape with the seam at the back?

 

I need to look at the window masks before I go much further with this madness…

[Fritag]

Ced, If the diameter is 9.5mm, what's the depth/length?  It might be plunge or vac mouldable if it's not too long.

[CedB]

Here you go Steve:

 

 

Oooh, oooh, are you suggesting I need to buy a Vacfoming machine? I don't think plunge will work as the gun mounts and (from Chris' diagram) barrel stop/supports wouldn't plunge very well:

 

 

If I use tube I'll have to (gulp) cut them off and stick 'em on 

[Heather Kay]

Now, I’m not a kit designer, but what were they thinking? Who moulds a part with a seam right through glazing, and not even aligned properly?

 

(I know. Fly have a certain reputation, I hear.)

 

Just because it’s traditional to keep seams and joins aligned across and along an airframe doesn’t mean it has to happen. In fact, a fore/aft split might have been better in this case. What about a diagonal that misses the glazed areas entirely? 

 

It's the sort of thing that gives a person sleepless nights. Well, it doesn’t really, but you know what I mean.

[Fritag]

So circa 9.5mm diameter and 1.25mm tall.  Might be too tall to plunge/vac form successfully.  Might not be.  I"ll experiment if I've got a suitable diameter sacrificial pen........

14 minutes ago, CedB said:

If I use tube I'll have to (gulp) cut them off and stick 'em on 

Ditto if plunge/vac formed.  All that would do is give a suitable diameter Tube.  The gun mounts etc. would still have to be stuck on.

17 minutes ago, CedB said:

Oooh, oooh, are you suggesting I need to buy a Vacfoming machine?

No    But If I was so minded I would say that 'need' is not the test and sets the bar too high.  i would suggest that 'desire' is an adequate test   It's the one I use.  I may repackage the test for presentational purposes as 'need', but I'm unable to fool myself (or Mrs F for that matter)

[CedB]

40 minutes ago, Heather Kay said:

Now, I’m not a kit designer, but what were they thinking? Who moulds a part with a seam right through glazing, and not even aligned properly?

 

(I know. Fly have a certain reputation, I hear.)

 

Just because it’s traditional to keep seams and joins aligned across and along an airframe doesn’t mean it has to happen. In fact, a fore/aft split might have been better in this case. What about a diagonal that misses the glazed areas entirely? 

 

It's the sort of thing that gives a person sleepless nights. Well, it doesn’t really, but you know what I mean.

Thanks Heather  I know, what were they thinking eh?

Sleepless nights? Not my problem but, sadly, the nights seem to be getting much shorter, sleep wise . Oh to be a teenager again and be able to lie in…

29 minutes ago, Fritag said:

So circa 9.5mm diameter and 1.25mm tall.  Might be too tall to plunge/vac form successfully.  Might not be.  I"ll experiment if I've got a suitable diameter sacrificial pen........

Ditto if plunge/vac formed.  All that would do is give a suitable diameter Tube.  The gun mounts etc. would still have to be stuck on.

No    But If I was so minded I would say that 'need' is not the test and sets the bar too high.  i would suggest that 'desire' is an adequate test   It's the one I use.  I may repackage the test for presentational purposes as 'need', but I'm unable to fool myself (or Mrs F for that matter)

Thanks Steve  I think you're right of course… I desire a machine, I don't need one. That might stop me. Maybe…

 

I've had a brainwave in the shower. Or perhaps it was a breakdown, who knows.

What I'm modelling here is a mostly solid turret with windows in.

I was going to produce some masks for the windows.

What if I scan Chris's diagrams and use those to cut out the windows and then fill them in later?

Sounds like a plan?

What are we up to now?

 

Plan F - make some templates and cut out the windows.

I may be gone some time…

[giemme]

28 minutes ago, Fritag said:

So circa 9.5mm diameter and 1.25mm tall.

Allow me to fix that typo Steven, it's 10.25mm tall. Vacforming might work (in fact, I thin kit's most likely going to work); ideally, you should use a suitable rod as master, like a piece of wood machined through a lathe to obtain the correct diameter. Vacform on top of that and add the protruding bits either cutting them off from the original plastic or scratch building them.

 

So, let's see: you need a mini-lathe, a vacforming machine and wooden rods. Easy.  

 

Sorry, I've got no better ideas, I know it's not much help (and I don't own a mini-lathe, should I be considering it?   )

 

Ciao

[Spookytooth]

Sorry Ced cannot help you here old chap.

But didn`t they have something similar for the Farley Fruitbat.

They used as a dunny I think.

 

Simon.

[Andwil]

11 minutes ago, giemme said:

Allow me to fix that typo Steven, it's 10.25mm tall.

I think you’ll find it’s 12.5mm tall.

 

Plan F looks like a good plan.

 

AW

[giemme]

9 minutes ago, Andwil said:

I think you’ll find it’s 12.5mm tall.

Sure, what was I thinking?  Thanks AW

 

Ciao

Edited August 8, 2019 by giemme

[CedB]

1 hour ago, giemme said:

So, let's see: you need a mini-lathe, a vacforming machine and wooden rods. Easy.  

Thanks Giorgio - I do have a mini-lathe. It's in the box and yet to be used. Too scary!  

 

1 hour ago, Spookytooth said:

Sorry Ced cannot help you here old chap.

But didn`t they have something similar for the Farley Fruitbat.

They used as a dunny I think.

 

Simon.

Thanks matey, no worries. They used it as a dunny?

 

55 minutes ago, Andwil said:

I think you’ll find it’s 12.5mm tall.

 

Plan F looks like a good plan.

 

AW

Thanks AW  Measure three times… at least!

 

 

Right, here we go. Silhouette Studio, import Chris' diagram and trace:

 

 

Not bad. If I were @TheBaron I would, of course, cut that on BMF and emboss the rivets. One day, one day…

After lots of fiddling and realising that Studio won't print lines unless you tick the little box:

 

 

… and some more fiddling, checking against the reference and some more fiddling I had this:

 

 

After chopping up with the Gyro cutter I stuck it on with Uhu white glue:

 

 

All I need now is some courage, some patience (lots of that), some drills and broaches and it'll be done. 

 

I'm offering odds of 25:1 that, just as I cut the last window, the whole lot will crack and/or shatter