Whitley Mk III - Fly 1/72

[Fritag]

1 hour ago, Andwil said:

think you’ll find it’s 12.5mm tall.

Indeed.  Decimal point typo acknowledged 

 

Couldn't find a cylinder of the correct diameter to try vac forming (well my only Staedtler Black Permanent Fine marker is just over 9.5mm (check decimal point) in diameter - but apologies Ced it's the last of it's kind and can't be sacrificed.....)

 

Didn't stop me having a play tho with a slightly smaller diameter pen (8.5mm)

 

It would probably be do-able as a vac-form; although it is a bit tall for the diameter and so the plastic tends to form webs and wrinkles down the sides as it stretches.  With my 8.5mm master the webbing started annoyingly at a depth of about 11-12mm.  

 

That said, the test was probably useable if the diameter had been correct.. You can see where I've sanded down a web/wrinkle at the left and it's left a tiny notch in the rim.

 

 

Length is ok:

 

 

But diameter a tad small at 8.9mm:

 

 

If I had sacrificed my only Staedtler Black Permanent Fine marker for the master it may be that the extra mm in diameter would have reduced the webbing problem.  But now I'd be marker less...........

 

Anyways.  I see the Ced has hit on a different solution.

20 minutes ago, CedB said:

All I need now is some courage, some patience (lots of that), some drills and broaches and it'll be done. 

Courage, mon brave! 

 

 

Edited August 8, 2019 by Fritag

[TheBaron]

Nice to see the hive mind rallying round a problem.

Not entirely sure what you're doing as only had a chance to read the last page Ced but you are moving in on the problem with a purpose - nice work on the cutter (and no I wouldn't have put on any fricking rivets!).

 

Happy International Cat day!

 

 

[bbudde]

51 minutes ago, TheBaron said:

Happy International Cat day!

Glad, that none of Martian's interstallar friends have visited you yet!

[Edge]

Enjoying some great model engineering as my Uncle Bill would have called it!

 

Edge

 

[CedB]

Page 5 and still no paint… not even much glue actually.

 

4 hours ago, Fritag said:

Didn't stop me having a play tho with a slightly smaller diameter pen (8.5mm)

 

It would probably be do-able as a vac-form; although it is a bit tall for the diameter and so the plastic tends to form webs and wrinkles down the sides as it stretches.  With my 8.5mm master the webbing started annoyingly at a depth of about 11-12mm.  

 

That said, the test was probably useable if the diameter had been correct.. You can see where I've sanded down a web/wrinkle at the left and it's left a tiny notch in the rim.

[snip pictures]

 

If I had sacrificed my only Staedtler Black Permanent Fine marker for the master it may be that the extra mm in diameter would have reduced the webbing problem.  But now I'd be marker less...........

 

Anyways.  I see the Ced has hit on a different solution.

Courage, mon brave! 

Steve you're a Gent  Thanks very much for the experiments; they've upped my interest in the Vacformer from 'desirable' to 'very desirable'… how long will I last out? 

 

2 hours ago, TheBaron said:

Nice to see the hive mind rallying round a problem.

Not entirely sure what you're doing as only had a chance to read the last page Ced but you are moving in on the problem with a purpose - nice work on the cutter (and no I wouldn't have put on any fricking rivets!).

 

Happy International Cat day!

 

Hi Tony  What am I doing? It's a Whitley but it has this interesting Ventral turret and I've chosen 'the road less travelled' by fitting it. Thought it would be a laugh. Oh ha ha ha…

Not really a cat person but I hope your pride is having a good day. Is that the right collective noun for cats?

Google, Siri and Alexa more or less agree on Clowder, Clutter, Pounce, Dout, Nuisance, Glorying or Glare… I was hoping for something funnier!

 

1 hour ago, bbudde said:

Glad, that none of Martian's interstallar friends have visited you yet!

[snip picture]

Thanks Ben  I've heard of hot dogs before, but…

 

42 minutes ago, Edge said:

Enjoying some great model engineering as my Uncle Bill would have called it!

 

Edge

 

Thanks Edge, very kind  I wish I was even close to that skill level, but the tools help, sometimes.

 

 

With these:

 

 

I've managed this, so far:

 

 

Stew had taught me to stroke lines with the scalpel and it is, eventually, having an effect, but I just lack the PATIENCE!

I'll get there in the end, but I may be gone some time…

 

Any tips of squaring off the holes appreciated.

They're about 2mm wide.

Will the broach work? Rub it up and down do you?

 

Wish I'd bought some of those Hobby Elements micro-files now…

[Heather Kay]

6 minutes ago, CedB said:

Will the broach work? Rub it up and down do you?

Nope. What you need is a square rat tail or jeweller's file.

 

 

[keefr22]

5 minutes ago, CedB said:

Nuisance

 

That most certainly is the right one....!!

 

Too late now for my Plan Z, which was use the turret as is, because I bet you with the non glazed bits painted, no one would ever notice any cloudiness when it was up on the ceiling. And if they did you could put it down to the Air Gunner's Woodbine habit.....

[hendie]

18 minutes ago, CedB said:

Any tips of squaring off the holes appreciated.

 

use a 3 Square file

 

 

honestly.

 

 

 

 

[perdu]

Really

[keefr22]

Ced, I've just found an old roller ball pen with a clear-ish barrel (it's a little scuffed, but should polish up ok) that my digital caliper tells me is 9.55 mm. Yours if you want it...

 

K

[hendie]

one side at a time

[bbudde]

Btw, Ced It seems to be bit like of my old diecasts, when they have torn clear parts. With hard cracks they look awful, when restored and everything else looks fine. Vacuforming will be my only option at least then to get some of them right. However, if Fritag can make you one, you should be happy and grateful instead of battling with scrap. Too much precious time of your life will flow through your pipeline.

Cheers Benedikt

Edited August 8, 2019 by bbudde

[CedB]

19 minutes ago, Heather Kay said:

Nope. What you need is a square rat tail or jeweller's file.

Thanks heather - I have those!  

18 minutes ago, keefr22 said:

That most certainly is the right one....!!

 

Too late now for my Plan Z, which was use the turret as is, because I bet you with the non glazed bits painted, no one would ever notice any cloudiness when it was up on the ceiling. And if they did you could put it down to the Air Gunner's Woodbine habit.....

3 minutes ago, keefr22 said:

Ced, I've just found an old roller ball pen with a clear-ish barrel (it's a little scuffed, but should polish up ok) that my digital caliper tells me is 9.55 mm. Yours if you want it...

 

K

Thanks Keith  Very kind of you to offer the pen - I'll keep that in mind if I may. Plan Z could still be a goer…

 

7 minutes ago, hendie said:

use a 3 Square file

honestly.

 

4 minutes ago, perdu said:

Really

2 minutes ago, hendie said:

one side at a time

Thanks Hendie and Bill   3 square is the triangular one eh? I'll give that a go…

 

 

Making progress with these:

 

 

Getting there.

[perdu]

Those are good files for ripping plastic/steel/aluminium off a surface but they lack the delicacy you need for this kind of work

 

(honest)

If you have ordinary tool steel, cross/diagonal cut files you will be able to get a better and more controllable finish

 

The diamond facets on the files in the picture do a great job of rough finishing, but as you are trying to work on clear placky I suggest tool steel instead

 

(yes triangular, it's just south of eastangular)

[hendie]

Listen to the Zen File-Meister  ^^^   !

Edited August 8, 2019 by hendie

[Fritag]

Another option.  Cos after all you can't have too many stupid ideas taking up brain space, might be to make a silicone mould of a 9.5m diameter cylinder - say about 15mm deep to allow for trimming etc.; any old pen or some such would do as the master.  And then cast a solid cylinder in clear resin.  Be fine for the ceiling wouldn't it?

 

Of course I've never used clear resin so have no idea just how clear it is.

 

Thought of that when I was out on my bike this afternoon as a work avoidance exercise.

 

 

 

 

[dogsbody]

Another FN.17 image:

 

 

 

 

Chris

[giemme]

1 hour ago, CedB said:

Any tips of squaring off the holes appreciated.

They're about 2mm wide

I use a very fine and pointy blade for that, like I did on the top fin exhaust on my Eurofighter - I think you saw that. My

 

Ciao

[CedB]

5 hours ago, perdu said:

Those are good files for ripping plastic/steel/aluminium off a surface but they lack the delicacy you need for this kind of work

 

(honest)

If you have ordinary tool steel, cross/diagonal cut files you will be able to get a better and more controllable finish

 

The diamond facets on the files in the picture do a great job of rough finishing, but as you are trying to work on clear placky I suggest tool steel instead

 

(yes triangular, it's just south of eastangular)

Thanks Bill - I've switched to a steel riffler for the final smoothing (see below). Great tip (as always), thanks  

5 hours ago, hendie said:

Listen to the Zen File-Meister  ^^^   !

I will hendie, I will!  

5 hours ago, Fritag said:

Another option.  Cos after all you can't have too many stupid ideas taking up brain space, might be to make a silicone mould of a 9.5m diameter cylinder - say about 15mm deep to allow for trimming etc.; any old pen or some such would do as the master.  And then cast a solid cylinder in clear resin.  Be fine for the ceiling wouldn't it?

 

Of course I've never used clear resin so have no idea just how clear it is.

 

Thought of that when I was out on my bike this afternoon as a work avoidance exercise.

Thanks Steve  I don't have any clear resin, sadly, and I had though about moulding earlier - just goes to show, great minds…

4 hours ago, dogsbody said:

Another FN.17 image:

 

 

 

 

Chris

Thanks Chris - just what I needed!  

There's a dent moulded in the kit part between the mounts and the instructions say that's where to mount a single gun - obviously wrong.

I had filled the dent with CA but I've now scratched it out and will paint it black later.

Begs the question though - how did the gunner see what he was shooting at?

4 hours ago, giemme said:

I use a very fine and pointy blade for that, like I did on the top fin exhaust on my Eurofighter - I think you saw that. My

 

Ciao

Thanks Giorgio  

 

Various suggested tools have allowed me to complete side 1:

 

 

Happy enough with that but I may fettle it some more after I've done the other side and given it a coat of paint.

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Not to really mess you up here. But you could take a drill bit or round file and thin the whole cylinder out from the inside. Sadly it does look excruciatingly thick now that you've gone and made real windows. If im being rude tell me to go stuff it. 

 

Dennis

[malpaso]

Why not just gently roll a strip of thin clear plastic around a suitable mandrel, then plunge in v hot then cold water.  Then just use your cutter whatsit to make an overlay for the solid bits, to which you could glue on the brackets from the Fly item.

Well, it sounds simpler to me.  

Cheers

Will

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

7 hours ago, CedB said:

Is that the right collective noun for cats?  Google, Siri and Alexa more or less agree on Clowder, Clutter, Pounce, Dout, Nuisance, Glorying or Glare… I was hoping for something funnier!

Ah, but you only asked about the collective noun for cats.  These are (apparently) international cats [weltkatzen]; totally different.

58 minutes ago, CedB said:

Begs the question though - how did the gunner see what he was shooting at?

According to @dogsbody‘s diagram, they couldn’t: “Gunners could not locate intercepting fighters”.  Sounds a bit of a fundamental flaw to me.  No winder the hole for parachuting was considered a better bet.

[dogsbody]

1 hour ago, CedB said:

Begs the question though - how did the gunner see what he was shooting at?

 

Is this a vertical vision slot?

 

 

 

 

Chris

[dogsbody]

I have spent most of the last hour looking online and through my references, looking of any images of the FN.17 turret. What I have discovered is:

 

THERE AIN'T NONE !!

 

The only place I haven't looked yet is a root through all my old 70's/80's magazines. 

 

 

Chris

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

The only one i found looks like you or someone with the same screen name as you posted it about 8 years ago ? 

 

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/british-manned-ventral-turrets.13610/

 

This one about half way down the first page. 

 

https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=20042&start=45

 

Thats about all i could find ? 

 

Dennis

Edited August 9, 2019 by Corsairfoxfouruncle