pacificmustang Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 Day All Im currently completing the Zoukie Mura Mustang kit as GA S shark mouth from 112 SQN The kit provides B type roundels for the upper wings, but I have seen other models completed with C type on the upper wings. I have a Freightdog decal sheet that also has C type roundels for the upper wings. Has ZM got this wrong. Their kit marking guides seem well researched Can anyone tell me definitively what type roundels this machine would have worn. Looking at photos of some other 112 SQN mustangs, shows C type, but these are on NMF aircraft. Searching RAF marking convention leads me to think all but 2TAF had B type, even to the end of the war. help would be appreciated. the aircraft was based in Italy and the timeframe was 1945 Many Thanks Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work In Progress Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 (edited) No-one can tell you definitively for the whole of 1945: a year is a long time, and it's possible that both happened depending on the exact date, given that KH774 did make it through to the end of 1946 with 112 Squadron. But you can't go wrong with B type as having been correct at some point in 1945. Edited August 5, 2019 by Work In Progress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 All RAF day fighters, apart from SEAC, switched to C type roundels over the wings in January 1945, so this also affected aircraft based in Italy. 2 TAF machines differed in having C1 roundels, that is with yellow border. I don't have the history of that aircraft available, I believe that the well known picture showing her flying over Italy was taken in mid '45 and by then the roundel used would have been the C. If the aircraft was in theater before January '45, then she would have worn a B roundel over the wings at that time. (and usual caveat, the definitions C, B, C1 and so on are used here because they are well known to modellers, but they were not official designations etc...) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work In Progress Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 You probably know this already but KH774 was non-standard in terms of paint anyway, so it's a bit of a nightmare, having been camouflaged locally in Italy with an unusual camo pattern. Steve Atkin's research, on the basis of which he painted G-SHWN - as reported in Flypast April 2015 - can be summarised thus: - Built as 44-11602 in the Dallas plant in 1944 as a P-51K- 5-NT - RAF roundels and fin flashes applied in the USA. Delivered across the Atlantic in natural metal w. usual silver painted wings - Camouflaged locally by 159 MU at Capodichino, Naples. Can't say whether they painted around the roundels and fin flash or re-did them. - GA-S codes and shark mouth applied at squadron level by 112 Squadron. (I don't know what month 112 Squadron got their hands on it, but probably Feb 1945 as that's when they are generally noted as having changed over from the Mustang III) - Last wartime mission May 5, 1945 three days before VE Day - Squadron disbanded 30 Dec 1945, aircraft presumably returned to MU - Struck off charge on February 27, 1947. Steve is a meticulous researcher and his clients can afford for him to do the work properly. I haven't seen the painting instructions for the ZM kit but I would be following the camo patterns he depicted on G-SHWN if there is any difference. Steve went with C type upper wing roundels , but of course most of the aircraft's service was post-war so we're back to potential questions of what date you're interested in and whether you want to depict wartime service. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacificmustang Posted August 5, 2019 Author Share Posted August 5, 2019 Most useful post WIP. I did not know the history of the aircraft really appreciate you relaying that. The ZM instructions call out the “firewall” scheme, but states ANA colours. The fact, the aircraft was painted locally makes me inclined to use RAF colours, think I’ll go with the C type based on Giorgio’s post thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydhuey Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 As Giorgio N said pre Jan 45 "B" type , Jan 45 Onward "C" type, going by known dated photo's of 3 Sqn Mustang III and IV's this is a pretty accurate time line and 112 operated with 3 Sqn in the same wing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 I can confirm that C roundels were used in Italy before the end of the war, there being a very good photo of them on SOE Halifaxes which had been replaced by Stirlings by May. However, does anyone have/know of C roundels big enough for a 1.72 Halifax? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, Graham Boak said: I can confirm that C roundels were used in Italy before the end of the war, there being a very good photo of them on SOE Halifaxes which had been replaced by Stirlings by May. However, does anyone have/know of C roundels big enough for a 1.72 Halifax? Xtradecal X72-044 has a couple of 84" roundels. Alternatively it could be possible to use 1/48 roundels 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbit Leader Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 What about the upper wing roundels found in the Airfix Tiger Force Lancaster, Graham. Someone may have spares on here? Cheers.. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 It needs checking, but I recall looking for 90in roundels. Last time I needed one I think I used PR 9 Canberra roundels with white from a bowspring compass. I recall Lanc roundels as being too small, presumably 84in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 Don't know of any source for 90" roundels, but Modeldecal sheet 103 had 100" roundels. If the size was indeed 90", the best option would be finding a 1/32 sheet that include 40" roundels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work In Progress Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 21 hours ago, Giorgio N said: Don't know of any source for 90" roundels, but Modeldecal sheet 103 had 100" roundels. If the size was indeed 90", the best option would be finding a 1/32 sheet that include 40" roundels. 1/32 is tragically under-supplied in generic markings, alas. Montex do masks which include 1/32 C type: https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/MXMM32138 though to be honest if you're prepared to paint, it's only a fairly simple job with a compass cutter and some Frisk film to do all of the roundels and fin flashes on a DIY basis, either onto clear decal sheet or the model itself. If it must be decals: an option closer than 100", and currently available: a 1/48 sheet with 50" C-type roundels in the Xtradecal line. 50" in 1/48 scales to 94.5" in 1/72, which could be worth offering up in paper form to the Halifax wing to see if it looks acceptably close - it's only five per cent over. https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/X48029 But I think I would cut some circles and make my own, if it were me (I usually have to, on my little flying models). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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