New Hurricane questions ?

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

       Hello everyone... Im thinking about starting my next Hurricane build soon. I'll be using the newer tool Airfix 1/72 kit. I have a couple of questions concerning these.

1) First question is which squadrons would've operated the type with the early fabric wings including both the battle of France and Battle of Britain ? 

2) Second question, is this a good option for pre-war 38-39 era ?

3) Third question is pre-war hurricanes, when did they switch from two to three blade props ? 4) Fourth question, i know the color call out for the kits marking is wrong for a yellow spinner. Whats the correct color if i use the kit option ? Thank you in advance for any assistance. 

 

Dennis 

Edited August 24, 2019 by Corsairfoxfouruncle

[JosephLalor]

I surmise that your boxing is A01010, with a single option for a 85 Sqn machine at Lille-Seclin.  There was a discussion on 85 Sqn hurricanes on this forum back in 2011.

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234907653-hurricane-i-vy-cg-of-85-sqn-lille-seclin-around-apr-1940/

 

There's also a starter kit boxing, A55111, for a Battle of Britain period machine, but it's of 615 Sqn.  Apparently 615 converted to Hurricanes in France just before the invasion, but returned to Kenley by 20th May 1940.

Edited August 2, 2019 by JosephLalor

[Graham Boak]

I don't think that either of your questions 1 and 3 will get a simple answer.  Certainly aircraft still with fabric wings were rare by the BoB, else more examples would have surfaced.  There is a comment that such a reinforcement arriving in France during the battle was considered as scraping the barrel.  

 

Linked to this is the comment re 615.  They were indeed converting to Hurricanes in early May, but judging from the immediately prior example of 607 Sq. these were all new aircraft.  I suggest that the older airframe in 615 was received when rebuilding in the UK.

 

Question 2 is much easier, as the kit is an excellent choice.  It has room for a few improvements, like replacement wheels of the right kind and some use of surfacer where areas have incorrectly been shown as fabric where they should be metal (behind the gun panel in particular).  I also found problems bringing the wing surfaces into proper alignment as lining up the gun panel and ailerons mean that the outlines don't match.  Nothing a bit of filing doesn't fix.

[Troy Smith]

12 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

       Hello everyone... Im thinking about starting my next Hurricane build soon. I'll be using the newer tool Airfix 1/72 kit. I have a couple of questions concerning these.

1) First question is which squadrons would've operated the type with the early fabric wings including both the battle of France and Battle of Britain ? 

varies.   Work from a photo

 

12 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

2) Second question, is this a good option for pre-war 38-39 era ?

the early boxiong, again, varies, many changes in a short space of time. Again, work from a photo

12 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

3) Third question is pre-war hurricanes, when did they switch from two to three blade props ?

late 39/early 1940. again, varies, and.... work from a photo

and see here

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234980181-hawker-hurricane-propellers-and-spinners-a-modellers-guide/

12 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

 

4) Fourth question, i know the color call out for the kits marking is wrong for a yellow spinner.

85 was noted as using flight codes spinners, so may well be yellow.  i did a thread on this, I'll dig out later

12 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Whats the correct color if i use the kit option ? Thank you in advance for any assistance. 

 

Dennis 

In a rush, but I have posted plenty of more detail answers on many of these questions in the past... can dig out later

T

 

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Sorry to keep asking Questions, Both concern squadrons in Egypt. 30 Squadron and 806 Squadron FAA while in Egypt. Did 30 always have all black Hurricanes, like in these photos ? 

30 Squadron Suez

 

806 Squadron Sidi Barrani ⬆️ Aboukir ⬇️ 

Looking for paint information ? I assume the 30 Squadron all black Hurricanes were standard TLS originally ? And the 806 Squadron Hurricanes is where I get confused ? All the profiles show them in TLS, but the photo's look more like they're in desert colors. Any and all info would be helpful ? 

 

Dennis

[dogsbody]

On my Hurc, I used a large handled Xacto knife with a rounded blade to scrape down the ridges on the section behind the gun bays, then added some Mr Surfacer 1000 and some sanding down to eliminate the fabric effect.

 

 

You will find that the upper wing tips overlap the lower tips a bit. If you try to match up the tips, it will throw everything else off. I just let the locating pins do their job and sanded the tips down so they matched up.

 

 

 

Chris

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

51 minutes ago, dogsbody said:

then added some Mr Surfacer 100 and some sanding down to eliminate the fabric effect.

Hello Chris,

        Yes i completely sanded my fabric effect down and re-scribed the wings. The only thing that wont be truly 100% accurate is the landing lights. Im just trying to nail the colors down for a few different Squadrons so i can pick the one i want. 

 

Dennis

Edited August 24, 2019 by Corsairfoxfouruncle

[Chuck1945]

1 hour ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

...The only thing that wont be truly 100% accurate is the landing lights...

 

Dennis

How so? The lights are in the correct location for a fabric wing Hurricane. They shifted position with metal wings

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

6 minutes ago, Chuck1945 said:

How so? The lights are in the correct location for a fabric wing Hurricane. They shifted position with metal wings

I sanded the wings completely smooth, and re-scribed the wing to the metal wing panel lines. In all honesty I just didn't feel like messing with the leading edge, moving the lamp and shaping and filling. Ultimately I couldn't find a fabric wing scheme that i liked right now. I will eventually do the 85 squadron one but just didn't want to do it now. 

[Graham Boak]

I found that lining up the wings so that the tips didn't quite match was indeed the best approach, but that did also require sanding down the leading edge for the same reason.

 

It is very difficult to be certain about TLS or DS schemes on Mk. I Hurricanes in this period.  A rule of thumb to consider is DS in North Africa but TLS in Greece.  In this case the lighter colour is around the cockpit area, which would rule out TLS other than in the very rare circumstance of an exchanged colour scheme. (Originally to be called C and D patterns, which is a very useful way of describing them.). However had the darker colour been around the cockpit it would have been much more difficult, as many Hurricanes were painted assuming that the darker shade on the drawing was meant to be the darker paint, whereas it actually showed where the Dark Green was on TLS.  It was a lot easier to change the references on the side of the drawing than prepare an entirely new drawing.

[Chuck1945]

9 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

I sanded the wings completely smooth, and re-scribed the wing to the metal wing panel lines. In all honesty I just didn't feel like messing with the leading edge, moving the lamp and shaping and filling. Ultimately I couldn't find a fabric wing scheme that i liked right now. I will eventually do the 85 squadron one but just didn't want to do it now. 

Ah, I thought you were going with a fabric wing Hurricane. Apparently didn’t read carefully enough

[ClaudioN]

12 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Looking for paint information ? I assume the 30 Squadron all black Hurricanes were standard TLS originally ? And the 806 Squadron Hurricanes is where I get confused ? All the profiles show them in TLS, but the photo's look more like they're in desert colors. Any and all info would be helpful ? 

30 Squadron had been a Blenheim Mk. IF fighter squadron until the end of the fighting in Greece. Right now, I do not remember when the night fighter flight was formed, but in the photo the look freshly painted black overall.

Photos showing initial allocations of Hurricanes to 803 and 806 Squadrons FAA (in June 1941) seem to suggest TLS with disruptive mottles on the lower nose and wing front.

For later machines (the ones you are showing are around September 1941), I'd go with the desert scheme.

[dogsbody]

I forgot to mention yesterday that you really need to thin down the trailing edges of the wings, otherwise they are way too thick. I did mine using the same blade as I used to remove the fabric behind the gun bays.

 

 

 

Chris

 

 

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

2 hours ago, Chuck1945 said:

Ah, I thought you were going with a fabric wing Hurricane. Apparently didn’t read carefully enough

Initially i was going to do a fabric wing. But i couldn't get inspired to do the Fabric wing right now. I will save the 85 squadron markings for a future build. 

19 minutes ago, dogsbody said:

I forgot to mention yesterday that you really need to thin down the trailing edges of the wings, otherwise they are way too thick. I did mine using the same blade as I used to remove the fabric behind the gun bays.

 

Chris

Yes i see that now but Ive already glued the wings together. Will make note of this and do that on my next build. 

[Andre B]

I had some nice build times with the Airfix "Fabric Wing Hurricane" as well thinning down the edges of the wing etc.

But in the end I feel it turned out rather well. But for the next Hurry I try the Arma kit...

 

 

Chhers / André

Edited August 25, 2019 by Andre B