1949 - McDonnell F2H Banshee****FINISHED****

[PeterB]

16 hours ago, Rabbit Leader said:

Coming up well Pete and this coroguard silver/aluminium query is quite interesting. I've always thought that the leading edges on these Post War US Nay aircraft were bright silver, however perhaps that's not the case. 

Cheers.. Dave 

Hi Dave,

 

Done a bit of research and the limited evidence certainly confirms the switch from camo colour (as on the Phantom 1, Fury 1 and Pirate)  to natural metal leading edges at least up to 1955. After that Corogard was used but again that seems to have been an aluminium sort of colour. By the time the F 14 entered service it seems leading edges were being increasingly painted in Light Gull grey as presumably modern paints were harder wearing. Most model manufacturers painting instructions I have seen say silver and that is what I have always used until now, but the Dural paint I am using is pretty close to good old Humbrol Hu11 anyway, at least against a dark blue background as you will see shortly. You learn something new on this Forum every day!

 

On the subject of silver, I have just bought a few AK Interactive colours. I know they are intended for airbushing but have you tried them with a hairy stick - if so how did they work?

 

Cheers

 

Pete

Edited October 6, 2019 by PeterB

[Rabbit Leader]

8 hours ago, PeterB said:

On the subject of silver, I have just bought a few AK Interactive colours. I know they are intended for airbushing but have you tried them with a hairy stick - if so how did they work?

To be honest, they seem a little too thin for brush painting however I must admit I haven't tried it yet. I'm also not much of a brush painter as my recently repainted 100 year old French Doors on the verandah of my house will attest too! Good luck with it.

Cheers.. Dave 

 

[Tailspin Turtle]

On 10/4/2019 at 6:25 PM, PeterB said:

Thanks TT - as it pre-dates Corogard I guess Duraluminium paint will be best. In your opinion would the Corogard also be aluminium colour as it had aluminium powder added, or would it be a little more "silvery"? I have a number of later USN jets in my stash which are post -1955. Also I see that F-14 onwards don't seem to have had Corogard - presumably paints were more resistant by then?

 

Cheers

 

Pete

As described in my post: Since it was a relatively thick coat of clear epoxy mixed with aluminum powder, the perceived color and shininess varied with lighting and length of time since it had been applied. Some knowledgeable observers report it as being close to silver when new but that it weathered to a light gray. Another reported shade is close to aluminum lacquer paint. Another description is “semi-gloss medium metallic gray.”

 

So it's pretty much a crap shoot, except the early jets were probably duraluminum with a clear coating. I haven't got anything conclusive on later jets. Somewhere around the S-3 and A-6 era, subsonic (?) jets got tape on the leading edges which appeared to yellow.

[PeterB]

Thanks TT,

 

Did the same applied to Air Force machines as well as Navy - I have both a Delta Dagger and a Delta Dart to build. I know that they had "silver" lips to the air intakes but do not seem to have had the same on the leading edges, so either they were using a grey version of Corogard, or did not bother?

 

Pete

[PeterB]

Still a bit of tidying up to do but the main painting is nearly finished.

 

 

In my previous post I talked of the “silver leading edges” but Tailspin Turtle has kindly sent me a link to an article which is most interesting.

 

It would seem that initially jets, like their piston engined predecessors, had their leading edges painted in the normal camo colour, but the higher speeds caused the paint to peel off. For a while USN planes reverted to natural unpainted metal leading edges, perhaps varnished or even rubbed with oil, but in around 1955 a new protective finish called Corogard (various variations on spelling) came into use. This was a clear coating but the Navy insisted on aluminium powder being added.

 

I see that Xtracolour paint range includes “Corogard” which seems to look somewhere between Dural and Silver, but TT suggests that the F2H-2 would be natural aluminium being pre 1955, so I have used Xtracolour Dural paint - against the Sea Blue background it looks like silver anyway. I am unsure if the USAF had the same problem as I have not seen "silver" leading edges on their camo painted planes such as the F102 and F105, though until the mid 1960's most of their machines were silver/NMF anyway.

 

I have also painted the top of the nose in black, presumably there was a radar mounted there. Lastly I have painted a thin silver line around the sliding part of the canopy, though some sources suggest it was actually white. With the touching up done it will be time for the decals, of which more later. I have initially painted the rear of the engine nacelles in gunmetal but I think I will lighten it up a bit.

 

Thanks for watching.

Edited October 8, 2019 by PeterB

[Rabbit Leader]

Looking great there Pete. For the white canopy internal (external) framing I like to use thin white stripe decals and Xtradecals have a good cheap range of these sheets in a multitude of colours. I’ve got black, white, red and yellow and they always come in handy especially on 1/72 kits. I wish they did a silver stripe sheet as this would be useful as well. Good info on the leading edges as well, that’s quite interesting. 

 

Cheers.. Dave 

[PeterB]

8 hours ago, Rabbit Leader said:

. I wish they did a silver stripe sheet as this would be useful as well. Good info on the leading edges as well, that’s quite interesting. 

 

Cheers.. Dave 

Hi Dave,

 

They do!

 

I used them to represent the stainless steel boiler bands on my repainted Gresley LNER A4 Pacific above.

 

Pete

[Rabbit Leader]

They do?? Lovely A4 by the way Pete. I did stray a little to the Loco side of modelling a few years back when I was trying to get my son interested in a hobby. We had fun however it didn’t quite match the excitement of computer games so we ditched it. I’ll have to find these silver stripes, thanks. 

 

Cheers.. Dave 

[PeterB]

Dave,

 

AFAIK they do Black, White, Yellow, Silver, and Post war Roundel Red and Blue, together with a mixed pack which has one of each sheet and works out cheaper - 6 for the price of 5. They are very useful though the thinner ones are prone to breaking in my experience.

 

Pete

Edited October 10, 2019 by PeterB

[PeterB]

I have finished tidying up and made a start on the decals/transfers.

 

 

Airfix provide markings for an aircraft of VF-172 flying from the USS Essex in October 1951 during the Korean War. The markings are generally correct, but according to the Naval Fighters book on the Banshee there are a couple of errors. VF-172 were called “The Blue Bolts” so the lightning flash on the wing tanks should be blue outlined in white, not yellow/white as on the decs.

 

 

Also the tip or the vertical tail should be the same blue, not red as Airfix indicate. The blue should be around FS35450 so I have printed new flashes. Unfortunately, I do not have any Humbrol 47 which is supposedly a close match so I will mix a couple of other colours for the tail. Once the rest of the decs are on I can fit the underwing pylons and think about the armament – Airfix provide both rockets and bombs.

 

Getting there slowly.

[Rabbit Leader]

That really is looking exceptionally nice Pete and good to see your using some handy references to get the little (but important) things right. 

Cheers.. Dave 

[PeterB]

The last of the decs are on.

 

 

Friday I will turn it over and add the main wheels, gear doors and weapons pylons, and once they are dry I will fit the rockets. Then it is just a case of fitting the replacement tail mounted pitot and it can go in the queue for spraying.

[Jinxman]

Looking very good - will you add a little bit of weathering or keep it pristine?

[PeterB]

I am not a fan of weathering (except on my trains) so I will keep it pretty clean - just reduce the gloss finish to satin.

[Rabbit Leader]

I like a well weathered model however always seem to baulk at going too far in case it ends up looking overdone. For that reason I’ve become a fairly mild weatherer and will probably remain so until I really challenge myself to push through. This Banshee is looking rather lovely Pete, and I think they look best fairly clean.

 

Cheers.. Dave 

[PeterB]

Hi Dave,

 

I have seen plenty of weathered models both on this forum and in mags, and I think they look great (most of the time), However I frankly have neither the patience nor inclination to try it myself. I have done some weathering on most of my 50 or so steam loco's as that is how they looked when I saw them back in the 1960's (Henry Ford - any colour you like as long as it is oily black), at least as far as the running gear is concerned - they come with almost chrome finished wheels and connecting rods etc and that just does not look right so , unlike the A4 in the pic I showed you most of them have a oily/dirty look. A few of them like my BR Standard 9F 2-10-0  freight loco are also pretty heavily weathered on the body as well, but most of the models are of pre WWII "Pre Grouping" machines and the individual companies made a considerable effort to keep them looking clean, unlike after the war in British Railways days.

 

The only plane kit I have really "weathered" is my Hasegawa Kate (see pic on Tony's Emily build). The instructions show it with patches of JNAF Green over a dural finish so I bit the bullet and did it - it actually looks pretty good. As you will know Japanese planes are reputed to have suffered paint stripping off quite rapidly due to poor preparation and paint application, though some recent sources suggest it has been overstated considerably. I am a bit dubious about my Kate as it was still early in the war (Indian Ocean raids) and the painting would have been nowhere near as rushed as in the later years I would have thought.

 

Anyway, each to his own as they say. I don't know how you painted your Gloster-Whittle or Canberra but they are much better finishes that any of mine painted with a "hairy stick", as are many but perhaps not all of the kits in the Frog Gallery.

 

Cheers

 

Pete

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

39 minutes ago, PeterB said:

I am a bit dubious about my Kate as it was still early in the war (Indian Ocean raids) and the painting would have been nowhere near as rushed as in the later years I would have thought.

Unless done hurriedly on board the carrier in route ? I can see them deciding to apply green over the standard finish when in route. They wouldn't always be over water 100% of the time and decided the extra color might be worth adding ? Thats my thoughts, probably incorrect but thats what I think. 
 

Dennis

[PeterB]

Hi Dennis,

 

According to at least one source I have, some of the planes for the Pearl Harbour strike were hurriedly painted green on top just before setting off or en route. This plane seems to be one of those that then went on to be part of the slightly later strike into the Indian Ocean against the Brits, so the finish would perhaps have been a couple of months old. I have actually seen a B&W photo that suggests the "peeling paint" is accurate, which is why I decided to do it, though I am not entirely convinced.

 

Pete

[Rabbit Leader]

Pete, my Frog builds (and pretty much everything else) is painted with a fairly cheap airbrush. It’s taken quite a few years to get to where I’m at, however still have much to learn before I’ll claim that I’m any good at it. I do marvel at some great finishes being achieved with brushes so it’s whatever we can use best that normally works. 
 

As for weathering on Japanese aircraft, I’ve often read that the fleet that participated in the Pearl Harbour attack (namely the Zeros’s) were all fairly glossy and clean, however did end up slightly chalky in appearance not long thereafter. Kate’s and Vals are another matter than I don’t quite have the knowledge of so best not to comment. 
 

Cheers.. Dave 

[PeterB]

Today I have fitted the wheels, doors, weapon pylons and an aerial to the underside. I would also have fitted the rockets but it seems Airfix have misaligned the locating pins and/or the sockets - that or I have done something wrong. As a result I have had to take the pins off and repaint the pylons so I will leave that to Monday.

 

 

Once they are on, all that remains is to replace the broken off tail pitot tube, and do a bit of touching up. Then it will get a couple of coats of glossy satin varnish and it will be done. I can then make a start on my Grumman Panther. Other than the rockets it has been a fairly straightforward build and the decals went on ok in spite of their age. The Meteor continues to progress slowly and with luck all 3 will be finished before the deadline - famous last words!.

[Rabbit Leader]

2 hours ago, PeterB said:

...and with luck all 3 will be finished before the deadline - famous last words!.

I’ll back you in Pete, I’d recommend not putting money on mine though, not having much luck on that one. Banshees a nice kit and you’ve done well. 
Cheers.. Dave 

[PeterB]

Well all the bits are on and touched up ready for spraying.

 

 

The rockets are presumably 5" HVAR and Airfix say that they had white bodies with red warheads - Hasegawa say the same for their Panther as did Frog for their Bearcat which I built a couple of months ago on the Frog GB, but I said then I thought that paint scheme was unlikely so I ended up with silver bodies but retained the red warheads as you can see.

 

 

I have subsequently found a picture in Detail & Scale's volume on the Panther which does indeed show red and white rockets, but the caption says this was not the normal scheme which was apparently OD warheads and aluminium bodies. As that sounds more likely I have gone with it on my "Banjo" and will do the same on the Panther. Perhaps the red/white scheme was for practice rounds. I have also seen one source which says warheads could be blue so maybe it depended on whether they were HE or AP. I dare say some of our US modellers would probably know.

 

The pylons are almost certainly much too long - Hasegawa include much shorter ones for their F9F and D&S says that even those are a bit too long! Perhaps they would have been correct if I had used the bombs Airfix supplied? Anyway this should be in the Gallery in a few days.

Edited October 28, 2019 by PeterB

[Rabbit Leader]

This Banshee and up and coming Panther will make a nice collection when parked next to your recent Bearcat. You've been very prolific of late Pete! 

Cheers.. Dave 

[Johnson]

Very nice Pete!

 

The Banshee is another favourite of mine, a result of watching 'The Bridges at Toko-Ri' at an impressionable age. Another plane to add to the Bucket List!

 

Cheers,

[PeterB]

Hi Charlie,

 

As I recall the novel was based on book by the author Michener who was a former Navy pilot and was a reporter assigned to Task Force 77 on USS Essex and USS Valley Forge according to Wiki. They say that they story was partly focussed on the work of the early helicopter rescue pilots, as played by Mickey Rooney in the film. The attacks in the book were made by Banshees  but when they came to make the film they could not get any so used Panthers for the flight sequences, or so I believe.

 

Pete

Edited November 2, 2019 by PeterB