Underside colour on camo'd D H Vampire from 112 sqn 1953.

[stevehnz]

I posted this same question in my thread on the Sharkmouth GB but thought it would get a winder audience if I posted it here as well.  I'm wondering if anybody can give me a definitive(ish) answer as to the colours for this (the camo version) I was thinking Dark green, Dark Sea Grey & PRU Blue but when I look it up I get every colour variation possible just about but nothing definite. As usual the Revell colour calls are specific to Revell paints & the underside is given as mainly grey 57 (97%) with (3%) Blue 56, barely enough to give PRU Blue I wonder. I've mainly got Humbrol paints to play with. The variety of schemes in kits & info on the net is quite bewildering though as I understand it the Dark Green, Dark Sea Grey & PRU Blue scheme is correct for non UK based units during this time.

Steve.

[Rabbit Leader]

8 minutes ago, stevehnz said:

... as I understand it the Dark Green, Dark Sea Grey & PRU Blue scheme is correct for non UK based units during this time.

That would be my educated guess as well Steve. Although linked to overseas service aircraft, you’ll probably find these colours were used on some UK based DH Hornets as well. Now besides lower sides being painted silver, what other camo colour options are there?  Stick to what you know and have read for all these years. 

 

Cheers.. Dave

[Giorgio N]

Dark Green and Dark Sea Grey over PRU Blue became in 1952 the scheme to be used for "short range, day fighters" of the "tactical air forces" (words in brackets are official designations). Vampires based in Germany would have fallen into this cathegory, including those of 112 Sqn.

One aircraft from this unit however was photographed in what may have been an experimental scheme of overall PRU Blue with Dark Green bands on the uppersurfaces. This was VX462 "A-G". A picture can be seen here:

 

http://www.rafjever.org/112sqnpic001.htm

Edited August 1, 2019 by Giorgio N

[stevehnz]

29 minutes ago, Giorgio N said:

Dark Green and Dark Sea Grey over PRU Blue became in 1952 the scheme to be used for "short range, day fighters" of the "tactical air forces" (words in brackets are official designations). Vampires based in Germany would have fallen into this cathegory, including those of 112 Sqn.

One aircraft from this unit however was photographed in what may have been an experimental scheme of overall PRU Blue with Dark Green bands on the uppersurfaces. This was VX462 "A-G". A picture can be seen here:

 

http://www.rafjever.org/112sqnpic001.htm

Thanks Giorgio, that does help to clear up the confusion because the Dark green/PRU Blue scheme was one I kept tripping over. There is a photo among that lot of the machine in the Revell kit & although the contrast between the upper & lower side is not great on the non Dark green areas, I'm happy to model it with PRU Blue lower sides & Dark Green/ Dark Sea grey uppers. More importantly, I'm not seeing it with MSG or Silver undersides.

Steve.

Edited August 1, 2019 by stevehnz

[Giorgio N]

Steve,

I would agree with your view based on that picture and I'd go with PRU Blue myself for this aircraft.

 

Regarding other colours, Vampires in fighter command starting IIRC in 1953 received the scheme with silver undersides. In general for fighters of the era the "rule" was that silver undersidedes were for UK based machines (Fighter Command ) and PRU Blue was used in 2 TAF and FEAF (the "tactical forces"). I'm using the word rule in bracket as it's more of a modeller rule than else, although based on proper documentation like AMUs. This doesn't mean that there weren't cases of machines with a certain scheme serving in the "wrong" theatre, as aircraft could be moved to other units carrying a previous scheme, PRU Blue at some point also fell from use and for example Hunters only carried silver undersides even when serving in Germany.

Medium Sea Grey undersurfaces were in those years used on night fighters, not day fighters. However early Vampires carried MSG undersurfaces as part of the wartime Day Fighter Scheme, some of the confusion may come from this.

Or maybe the matter is simply that things like kit instructions are not always properly researched... 😁

[stevehnz]

At risk of over thinking the whole deal, looking at the photo I linked to of WA235 A-L, I wonder if I'm seeing a rather higher demarcation on the tail booms that is shown in the Revell boxart or instructions, ie at about 80% rather than 30% height on the sides of the booms?

Steve. 

[Giorgio N]

I have checked a couple of Modeldecal sheets and both seem to indicate low demarcation. Yet pictures seem to show very little if any contrast between upper and lower surfaces on the booms. I believe that it's a matter of these being mostly in Dark Sea Grey, that shows less contrast with PRU Blue. I will look for a few more pictures, maybe they can shed some light on the matter.

[Don149]

I can give a definite lower half colour for Vampire 5s in `55 and that was silver , ( if that`s any use ) . I was stationed at Dyce at that time , home of

612 County of Aberdeen Squadron , they had Mk 5s and two Meteor 7s which were all over silver .

                                                                                                                                                             Don .

[Don149]

P.S , `also remember a visiting RAF Sabre that " lobbed in " from Germany , that was a very oil streaked PRU Blue underneath with grey/green on top .

[Selwyn]

A few images for debate;

 

  4 sqn-1

4 sqn-2

4 sqn-3

4 sqn-4

4 sqn-5

 

Selwyn

 

 

[stevehnz]

Thanks @Giorgio N @Don149 & @Selwyn, yes that does clarify things, after seeing Selwyn's post I went back again & blew up the 112 sqn photos from Jever & all of a sudden what Giorgio said made sense, mainly DSG on the booms which the kit colour call shows too. Selwyn, those are much clearer photos of the 4 sqn machines, they show the lack of contrast between the DSG & PRU Blue in the monochrome photos up well, even if the shadow on the colour one does make it look like night undersides.

Thanks all for the input. Don, I've a Frog one on the go which will get a silver belly, good to know that the Germany based ones had the scheme we're discussing, even if somewhat worn. In spite of that & the colour photo Selwyn has linked to, mine will be pretty much sans weathering & grime.

Steve. 

Edited August 1, 2019 by stevehnz

[Rabbit Leader]

4 minutes ago, stevehnz said:

... I've a Grog one on the go which will get a silver belly.. 

Really Steve, you’ll be getting a blue belly drinking at this time in the morning!! You Kiwis celebrating the RWC19 win already? 

 

Cheers.. Dave 

[stevehnz]

Its that virus my 'puter has Dave, the one that changes things when I hit save.  I'd already changed that from a small f to a big one but there is no aloowing for viruses.

Steve.

[Rabbit Leader]

Excuses, excuses.. I reckon my stories got more credibility! 

Cheers and glad you’ve chosen what was always right in the first place.. Dave 

[Giorgio N]

3 hours ago, Don149 said:

I can give a definite lower half colour for Vampire 5s in `55 and that was silver , ( if that`s any use ) . I was stationed at Dyce at that time , home of

612 County of Aberdeen Squadron , they had Mk 5s and two Meteor 7s which were all over silver .

                                                                                                                                                             Don .

 

Don, you may know this already, if not you may be interested in knowing that decals for a camouflaged 612 Sqn. Vampire were available in Modeldecal sheet 101, of course with silver undersides. The aircraft chosen was WA402 "J", the CO aircraft in 1956

Although the sheet is OOP, it can be found quite easily from the usual sources of second hand modelling items

Edited August 1, 2019 by Giorgio N

[Don149]

Yes Giorgio , I remember using the sheet many moons ago , but for the life of me I can`t remember which kit it went onto ! .

The reason the C/O flew J -Jig is his name was Sqd/Ldr Johnson . One day he landed and his kite had no brake pressure ,

he went down the runway fish-tailing but the rudders on a Vamp were useless below about 50 mph . When he went off

the runway onto the grass the land inclined a little and he came to a stop about 50 yards short of the road ! Pity the poor

sod who was responsible for maintaining his brakes , `cos he was a bit " starchy " . Happy days .

                                                                                                                                                         Don .