Sherman Firefly Vc 1/35 - certain kit dimensions

[Radpoe Spitfire]

Many moons ago I dipped my my toe into the possibility of converting a bashed up M4 and M4A3 Tamiya kits into one - a Firefly Vc. I know there are already kits, but theyre beyond my budget.

 

For me this conversion is an exercise in challenging my own skills as a modeller using old and new methods - I'm not a rivet counter & believe a kit is just a blank canvas, so the odd mm out is not really an issue. Where I am concentrating on is in the detail, which differentiate the Firefly Vc from other Sherman types.

 

While I can access sprue images and non scale plans, I'd like help with dimensions for a certain areas, as the project progresses, if anyone can please .

 

So the hard work begins😨

 

 

1. Initially the conversion is aimed at lengthening the upper hull, which has already been started. This i did, by studying both hulls for a long while deciding how and where the join would be made. After much deliberation & holding of breath😰  Ive cut and mated  the  M4 front and M4A3 rear sections.

 

I now need the dimension of the Vc upper  hull,  from the point where the Glacis plate meets the front mud guard to the rear of of the hull please.

 

This will then be followed by converting the M4 turret.

 

I now have the turret radio box, rear Hull plate and Stowage bin dims, but still need  rectangular turret loader's hatch surrounding weather guard and diameter of the  turret mantle opening  for the 17pdr gun.

 

I hope as the project progresses, to figure out how to download photos as a WIP, then  as a finished model👍

 

Kind regards, Adrian

Edited August 5, 2019 by Radpoe Spitfire
New info

[JackG]

Not sure how accurate you want to be (assuming it is important as you are asking for exact measurements), but the Vc was based on the M4A4 - this means a longer hull and resulting wider space between boogies.  Now the Firely Ic was based on the M4 (Sherman I in British parlance).

 

Don't have a 1/35 Vc in my stash, but here are measurements concerning the radio armoured box found in the Asuka kit;

 

height - 13.2mm

width  - 26.5mm

depth - 10.3mm

 

regards,

Jack

Edited July 29, 2019 by JackG

[John Tapsell]

Converting the Tamiya M4 to a Sherman Ic Firefly is easy enough because they were based on the M4, assuming you can source the main gun, modify the mantlet and can add the loader's hatch (plus the other bits you mention).

 

However, a Sherman Vc Firefly based on the M4A4 (Sherman V) hull would be a whole world of pain because you would need to stretch the lower hull and re-configure the upper hull, not to mention changing the engine deck.

 

If you're set on this project, stick with doing a Ic  - you don't need the M3 for any donor parts either.

 

John

 

[Radpoe Spitfire]

In my original post, I'd written a typo error!!!! M3😣 -it should of said M4A3!!! 

 

Thank you John, but it is a  Vc I'm building. When stripped back to the basic structure, the M4A4 hull is a stretched M4 hull with changes to accommodate the engine. 

 

The model will not have much internal detail, so no real problem solving there.

14 hours ago, JackG said:

Not sure how accurate you want to be (assuming it is important as you are asking for exact measurements), but the Vc was based on the M4A4 - this means a longer hull and resulting wider space between boogies.  Now the Firely Ic was based on the M4 (Sherman I in British parlance).

 

Don't have a 1/35 Vc in my stash, but here are measurements concerning the radio armoured box found in the Asuka kit;

 

height - 13.2mm

width  - 26.5mm

depth - 10.3mm

 

regards,

Jack

Thank you Jack, that's just what I needed.👍

 

So- what I have so  far is that the upper hull has been stretched using the front half of the M4 and rear of an the  M4A3. A new engine deck is to be scratch built. 

😏 

The lower Hull was "chopped" between the suspension bogies and stretched with plasticard, then filled. 

 

The "solid" wheels of the M4A3 are being used. In my stash, I have a resin Comet, but I will use its 17pdr barrel. (  I have an Aluminium one for that.) 

 

I've got a few magazines which have useful photos of the Dragon and Tamiya Vc's being constructed, plus basic plans found on the Internet.

 

So if anyone has either of the above kits, could you please help with the dimensions I need.👍👍

 

Thank you, Adrian

 

 

[fatfingers]

Aye up Adrian.

 

You might need to check your refrences as i think the 17pdr on the Comet was a shorter version than what was on the Vc....

 

Regards

 

Steve

[Radpoe Spitfire]

5 hours ago, fatfingers said:

Aye up Adrian.

 

You might need to check your refrences as i think the 17pdr on the Comet was a shorter version than what was on the Vc....

 

Regards

 

Steve

Thank you Steve 👍, I was lucky to work on the A.F.Budge example &  knew for some reason the Comet's 17 pdr was classed as a 77mm weapon, but had forgotten it was a different length.looks like a purchase of an aftermarket barrel or if anyone has the Tamiya parts going spare.

 

[JackG]

Maybe you already have it bookmarked, but just in case, Sherman Minutia page is great site to compare the details of the many variants:

http://the.shadock.free.fr/sherman_minutia/index.html

 

If you spend a few minutes comparing the models you plan to marry together, you may find there is more differences than just details on the upper rear deck.  Note that both the M4 and M4A3 also include several sub-types for each,  so you will have to determine which of these your donor models represent.   The easier route would be to just compare your kit contents to a M4A4 or Firefly Vc walk around:       http://www.primeportal.net/apc/m4_sherman.htm

 

---------------------

 

Back to the Asuka kit of the M4A4, yes the rear hull plate dimensions, and hopefully that is the storage box  you want?  The latter I've colour coded the measured lengths.  Also note, the measurements includ the thickness of the lid, which is a little over half a mm.

 

 

regards,

 Jack

 

 

 

 

[fatfingers]

No worries mate.

I think i've got a Dragon 17pdr barrel in the spares box. Will check when i get home later and send you a PM to let you know.

 

Regards

 

Steve

[Radpoe Spitfire]

1 hour ago, JackG said:

Maybe you already have it bookmarked, but just in case, Sherman Minutia page is great site to compare the details of the many variants:

http://the.shadock.free.fr/sherman_minutia/index.html

 

If you spend a few minutes comparing the models you plan to marry together, you may find there is more differences than just details on the upper rear deck.  Note that both the M4 and M4A3 also include several sub-types for each,  so you will have to determine which of these your donor models represent.   The easier route would be to just compare your kit contents to a M4A4 or Firefly Vc walk around:       http://www.primeportal.net/apc/m4_sherman.htm

 

---------------------

 

Back to the Asuka kit of the M4A4, yes the rear hull plate dimensions, and hopefully that is the storage box  you want?  The latter I've colour coded the measured lengths.  Also note, the measurements includ the thickness of the lid, which is a little over half a mm.

 

 

regards,

 Jack

 

 

 

 

👍that's perfect Jack - thank you 😏

[Kingsman]

9 hours ago, fatfingers said:

You might need to check your refrences as i think the 17pdr on the Comet was a shorter version than what was on the Vc....

 

Comet had the HV 77mm gun, not a 17pdr.  Used a shorter but otherwise similar barrel.  For a Firefly you need a proper 17pdr.  RB Model probably best value in metal.  It was called the 77mm to differentiate it as it fired completely different ammunition: it was a completely different weapon.  Same projectiles as 17pdr but mated to the shorter and less powerful cartridge of the 3" 20cwt AA gun.  Not as effective as the 17pdr because of reduced velocity.  Never used on any other tank.

 

15 hours ago, Radpoe Spitfire said:

So- what I have so  far is that the upper hull has been stretched using the front half of the M4 and rear of an the  M4A3. A new engine deck is to be scratch built. 

I'm afraid that doesn't work.  It wasn't just longer: the angles where the sides and deck slope down to the rear were completely different.  Different rear engine access door arrangement to either M4 or A3.  M4A4s also had a unique style of driver's hoods not found on any other Sherman type - although Tamiya goofed one of their M4 kits by using these in error.  If yours have a slight undercut at the bottom then you have the right ones.  But if you add the applique plates, which you should, then this area will be hidden.  You haven't mentioned the differential cover: all M4A4 had the bolted 3-piece type.

 

I would have gone with the 1C too.  As noted above, the M4A4/Sherman V had so many differences to all other Sherman types you can't really make one - at least not accurately.  Having said this, because they were only built by Chrysler

they were the least varied of all the Sherman types.  Normal production variation evolution but no factory variation.  The Sherman Minutia site can help you with these.

 

Don't forget that Fireflies built on M4s not fitted with the turret loader's hatch had the British-pattern rectangular hatch added.  Later conversions on turrets built with the oval loaders hatch retained that hatch.

 

T62 tracks were most commonly factory-fitted on A4s, although others may have been used and field replacements could have been anything except plain rubber block and probably not rubber chevron.

 

By the time you've sorted all the variations out and found all the correct parts you might as well have bought a Dragon VC.  Not as good as Asuka but workable and half the price.