Vesa Jussila Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 Hi, Can somebody point me what are most correct colors to paint French Caudron C714? My target is build a plane from GC 1/145 in France 1940. Br. Vesa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jure Miljevic Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 Gris bleu clair (lower surfaces), gris bleu foncé, terre de sienne and kaki (upper surfaces). These colours are opened for interpretation to various degree so consulting more than one source is recommended (here is IPMS Stockholm chart). Here is a photo of Finnish CA-556 still in original French colours although you probably have already seen this one. Cheers Jure 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS_w Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 (edited) 1940, the french camo was: upper surface: kaki/gris bleu foncé/brun Under surface: gris bleu clair as defined by Air Ministry circular dec 39 and several constructors Dewoitine, Bloch,, Breguet, Morane, Lioré stipule also these colors(no other shades of Brown as "terre e sienne" or "ombre brulées) which were applied in their factoies. Edited July 24, 2019 by BS_w 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luka Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 (edited) There's a truckload of photo's online of this Finnish CR714 that has been moved to Poland for restauration. It is in the original ww2 colours. Edit; didn't check the link Jure posted before posting this pic; it's the same plane.. Edited July 24, 2019 by Luka additional info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 Jure, Can you imagine trying to dogfight in a C.714...the Finns were brave as well as desperate! Can't wait to see it restored, as I have always wanted to do a Finnish Caudron- thanks for the photo! Mike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jure Miljevic Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 Hello BS_w, thanks for your correction. Mike, my preference, just as Vesa's, is a GC 1/145 machine with half-painted PAF markings on a fuselage. I understand Finns never flew C.714 in combat, although Polls did during French campaign and actually managed to shot few Luftwaffe aircraft down. Not bad for an aircraft which, reportedly, had been a pleasure to fly, but was almost useless as a weapon. Cheers Jure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 4 hours ago, Jure Miljevic said: but was almost useless as a weapon. Cheers It looks more like one of the pylon racers at the 1930's Cleveland Air Races more than a fighter! The Finns must have taken a look at the Brewster 239, the Curtiss H-75A-1 and then the C.714 and said "Jatan valiin!" Mike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jure Miljevic Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 Well, C.714 was developed from Caudron 450 and 460 racers which I believe made their first flights on a year of demise of the last Gee Bee racer, hybrid R-1/2. Cheers Jure P.S.: I have no idea what that Finnish phrase means, but I suspect it is not very flattering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 30 minutes ago, Jure Miljevic said: I have no idea what that Finnish phrase means, but I suspect it is not very flattering. "I'll pass!" You are right, Jure- I always thought the C.714 was basically a Caudron racer with machine guns. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesa Jussila Posted July 25, 2019 Author Share Posted July 25, 2019 Thanks for all answers. Clearly I need to visit in museum in Krakow when I am there next time. There is progress with Caudron clearly. Actually I need formulate my question better. Is there ready good mix for those colors for example in Humbrol range? Br. Vesa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luka Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 Humbrol used to have the very nice Authentic Colour range (enamels) with the French colours coded as HF 1 to 6. Unfortunately those are now long discontinued, and the colours that are suggested as equivalents in their current range often don't match at all. What would you be looking for; suited for brush or airbrush? Enamel or acrylic? Also, which brands are easily available at your LHS? For most of my French models (coincidentally, the Finnish CR714 being one of them) I ended up mixing my own paints from Revell/Vallejo/Humbrol acrylics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesa Jussila Posted July 25, 2019 Author Share Posted July 25, 2019 Thanks Luka, And I looked IPMS Stockholm pages and looks that I really need to mix those colors. Need to start WIP thread for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWM Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 23 hours ago, Luka said: didn't check the link Jure posted before posting this pic; it's the same plane.. Any modern photo of C-714 will be of this one since it is the only surcieved existing... Regarding colours: Humbrol 27/98/155 for top? and 87 for bottom? Cheers J-W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luka Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 21 minutes ago, JWM said: Regarding colours: Humbrol 27/98/155 for top? and 87 for bottom? I think those colours may point somewhere in the right direction, but at a quick glance they don't seem to be spot on. For example, IMHO Humbrol 27 doesn't look blue enough to pass for gris-bleu foncé. But, since you are from Krakow, you could maybe compare some model paint chips to the actual plane colours? Hmm, is that PZL P11c also still in original colours per chance? 😉 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWM Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Luka said: But, since you are from Krakow, you could maybe compare some model paint chips to the actual plane colours? Hmm, is that PZL P11c also still in original colours per chance? 😉 Currently C714 is in workshop under restoring so no available to see. I have made some photos of it when it was on exhibition. In 2007 I made them using Humbrol 117 as vert (not khaki), two otheres from top are 27 and 98 Regarding P-11 it is also now under restoration, the colour which was on exxhibition for years was not original at all...There was discussion of Polish colours on BM some time ago. It was even repeated from time to time. For example here: Regards J-W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buz Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 (edited) Note sure if this is any good, maybe you can get something from it, or at least confirm pattern etc - Source is My negative collection Buz Edited July 26, 2019 by Buz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWM Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 On Wing Palette (http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww2/f/378/21/1) you have full set of GC1/145 Caudrons. Indeed, each one had individual scheme Cheers J-W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luka Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 @JWMNice unusual subject with the C690. Did you use parts of the C714 as a base or was it entirely scratchbuilt? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWM Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 1 hour ago, Luka said: @JWMNice unusual subject with the C690. Did you use parts of the C714 as a base or was it entirely scratchbuilt? Yep! It was deep scratch conversion using some parts of C-714, But u/c are based for example on resin copies from that of C635 Simoun, similar front of engine. J-W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaCee26 Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 Hi Vesa, IIRC FS-numbers checked from th CA-556 are published in Stenman's book "Sotamaalaus" (War Paint". Maybe also somewhere else. Cheers, AaCee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antti_K Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 Iltaa Vesa & Co., I would suggest Humbrol Authentics (if you can find a set). A guy in Pori might still have those (His father established a well known hobby shop called "Askarteluliike Erkki Laurila"). Here is my Morane in 1/32 scale. A very demanding kit painted with Hu 27, Hu 155 and brown from Humbrol Authentic (HF ?). Humbrol Authentic's dark blue gray is far too dark; don't use it. My grandfather flew a few missions with this aircraft during the Winter War. The fighter base was located at our summer cottage in Säkylä in SW Finland on a frozen lake. And here is a photo of the Caudron wing pictured at Vesivehmaa airfield. The Humbrol brown and olive drab are very good matches but to my eye Hu 27 is too gray and slightly too dark. Note that the dark blue gray is very weathered in this picture. In reality it is darker and contrast between the three colours isn't very strong. I do hope they don't re-paint the Caudron! As far as I know the aircraft is on loan and should return to Finland in 2020. As Jure said, no combat missions were flown with Caudrons by the Finnish Air Force. They were disliked and only a few test flights were made. Cheers, Antti 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 WEM Colourcoats made a set of French colours, which I suspect will still be available from Sovereign Hobbies. This would seem to be a much better bet than trying to track down a set of 50-year old Humbrols. There have been other sets more recently but I didn't need them so didn't make notes. However Akan do a wide range of non-enamels so I'd try looking there if Jamie at SH can't help. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 (edited) Vesa, I just remembered I have both volumes of Finnish Fighter Colors, 1939-45, by Kari Stenman and Karolina Holda (sp?) The C.714 and its colors and markings are discussed and illustrated with color profiles and three-views. Kari is a well-known and respected Finnish aviation historian and author, so I would imagine the content of the Caudron colors and markings is very accurate. In v2, the colors used on the C.714 are listed, and in v1, there are FS equivalents for each one. I have listed them below. I can not vouch for the accuracy of the FS equivalents, but if you have access to an FS595a color chart/chips, you can examine them for comparison to French color chips and/or commercially available colors. I hope this is helpful- good luck on your project; the C.714 is a very distinctive, and dare I say handsome little spud in French colors and Finnish markings! I'm also thinking one of our two resident Antti's @antti @Antti_K will no doubt have much more information on the subject than I, although I am a big fan of anything and everything the Finns flew during both of their wars! (To me they were the AVG of Europe!) Mike upper colors: Terre Fonce, FS30045 Vert Fonce, FS 34096 Gris Bleu Fonce, FS36122 lower color: Gris Bleu Clair, FS36231 Edited July 28, 2019 by 72modeler corrected spelling 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Timmy Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 I can show you what NOT to paint ... I have placed this plane in a "sacred"place ..... the trash bin ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luka Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 On 27/07/2019 at 01:36, Antti_K said: I do hope they don't re-paint the Caudron! True that! Let's just cross our fingers that if they repaint it, it will be done by a WW2 Armee de l'Air aficionado with slight OCD and 100% colour perception. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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