british summer heat humidity dust and airbrushing

[Merlin]

Hi,

Most days are muggy and warm, a fresh day is maybe 1 in 10, my north facing studio is 23 at start of the morning and gets to 28 by midnight with a tall PC tower unit pumping out heat, even the large monitor puts out heat, its upstairs and house heat rises. it can be 32 in a heatwave at midnight, makes summer hell in fact.  the actual climate is usually 23 or higher and humidity 70% or higher.  Yet we are told to spray in 18deg C and low humidity, lacquers will frost taking on the humidity etc.

 

Its impossible to find a day that suits that from about May to Sept. Americans have air con, us Brits dont.

If a fresh day comes along the chances of it also being free for modelling are slim, the calendar doesnt see the free days match the fresh days.

 

Also with doors open for air, one comes to spray and everything has a fine layer of dust, so remove 100's of pots and glues and other modelling stuff that seem to have gathered, its going to take a day to clear all and dedust then put back, by then the spray chance has gone, keeping doors shut though doesnt make the room any cooler, just the opposite.

 

How do you fellow modellers cope , cupboard doors and everything behind doors perhaps, so just wipe down the doors ? shelves full of really useful box co boxes sees pots of paints, little dust gatherers, under storage and stackable but those boxes piled up also gather dust, and they are next to the spray area. no other place for them. Other side of room is PC and doored wardrobes. other two walls a door and a window.

 

One option perhaps to have brass hooks in ceiling and on wall and an eyeleted sheet hung between modelling bench and booth, cuts off airflow so I and the room get hot now, but still the loads of RUBC boxes above booth to consider.

 

even the booth bench gets to see lots of mixing pots, and paint pots gather, all now each a dust carrier. shift it all and wipe down with wet cloth then put this dust gathering assemblage back, after dedusting each one.

 

What controlled area avoiding such clutter and dedusting have you got, and how do you manage to spray in 18deg C and low humidity avoiding 23C and high humidity normal UK summer day situation in the heart of England ?

 

BOBC

 

[Jetblast]

It's pretty hard to eliminate all dust / fibres & such like - it even going to be coming from you clothing as you work.

 

Try misting the room down with a misting bottle (plant mister, old, empty trigger bottle) immediately prior to spraying so any dust is drawn down & use a Tupperware box or old ice cream carton to cover your work as soon as you have finished spraying until it is surface dry.

[Graham Boak]

Buy a cooling fan to bring down the local temperature where you are working.  There are a range of types - my modelling loft has a small heater which can be run with no heat and in summer that sits a few feet away blowing air onto my legs/lower body.  We have a larger vertical fan but if the weather is that hot it will be downstairs in use by my wife.

 

Working in the loft greatly reduces dust, never wear woollen clothing into it.  I keep all my paints, models in progress etc in plastic boxes from Hobbycraft.  Not cheap but effective.  You can use boxes intended for kitchen use from your local supermarket which may end up a bit of an assortment but cheaper and they work.

 

If the problem is excessive you could always buy air conditioning packs...  Not cheap I dare say (never looked), but add together your expenses on modelling/books etc and what's the balance?

[bhouse]

Just install a big fridge in your modelling space and run it with the fridge door open.

[Merlin]

Hi,

misting water over surfaces of modelling area increases the humidity as it will evaporate very quickly, the room now is 26deg and I am wilting in the muggy air as it is, so the humidity is not good for the paint, I have considered it in the past but I hate humidity and my ability to stay focused and cool calm and collected with steady hand goes out the window, and humidity is the thing to avoid when spraying, especially lacquers, varnishes etc, I copied a post where it said do not use alclad in humidity and its alclad varnish I am about to spray, my previous varnish attempts all went wrong with other makes.

 

Turning a fan on just whips up all the dust, might cool me down a bit but ruins my models with dust and particles stuck in my paint.

 

I tend to turj the booth on and let it suck in anything in the air for 10 mins and move about like a cat burglar.

 

Its the fact that airbrushing in temperatures above 18 and high humidity is not conducive to good finishes I am told, but how does one from may to sept get such conditions.

Even asking today a friend I was told you havent a chance in these conditions., my chance to model is now and the weather says no, but waiting till Oct is too late I have shows I want to model for now.

 

So what is airbrushing like in high humidity and temps above 23C, do you guys get any problems ?

Merlin

[malpaso]

Don’t check the temperature?  I don’t and haven’t had a problem airbrushing in the summer.

If it’s so muggy you’re sweating sitting down, it’s natures way of telling you to go and have a cup of tea, soft drink or beer!

Cheers

Will

[Sharknose]

Move to Derbyshire Merlin, you will soon forget about being warm. 

😀

Edited July 22, 2019 by Sharknose
Clarity.

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

Turn off the PC when not using it?

 

This temperature and humidity faff is a non-issue with enamels. Another reason why I prefer them.

 

If it means that much to you, buy an air conditioning unit. It will control the humidity as well as the temperature.

[Graham Boak]

I work on a large desk top, the fan blows underneath, the air above doesn't get disturbed: but if there's that much dust you'll get it in your paint anyway.

 

Get a small tablet computer which produces much less heat.  I have a Nexus 7in and a much newer and more capable Surface Go, so I can use either in the model room for net browsing or (for example) watching the Tour - after all if you are modelling you won't be doing any really heavy PC work anyway.

[Merlin]

Hi , fan on floor is always good as cooler air there, but this is about the air temp and humidity that the spray experiences.

 

I am told anything over 18 is bad, orange peel, or dusty results, or frosting when humid.

 

So what about such summer temps and humidity and spraying varnishes and paint etc. ??

 

as for PC, I need a new laptop, quiet running and a colour calibrated screen for photo editing and so on, then in summer I could work downstairs in a cooler room. The heat from the tower is just overwhelming, like sitting in front of a weak electric fire, kills summer, room at 30deg at midnight, hate summer !!  however the 24inch colour calibrated Eizo monitor is what I need for my work and no laptop is that big and gorgeous. best thing I ever bought.

 

Merlin

[bhouse]

In all seriousness, the only way that you will achieve the temp and humidity you wish it to get yourself an  aircon unit. If you can reduce the power consumption. a small one would suffice.

For £300-£400 you can get one that's big enough ti cope with cooling and dehumidifying a room of 20m³-30m³.

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

10 hours ago, Merlin said:

I am told anything over 18 is bad, orange peel, or dusty results, or frosting when humid.

 

I think someone's tried to give you very rough guidance rather than a hard and fast rule - much like the >7deg C = summer tyres good <7deg C = winter tyres good. There's more to it than that and the transition from working fine to not working fine is rather blurred.

 

You should be able to work absolutely fine in normal household temperatures. If you can't, then try tweaking air pressure, thinning ratios or change thinner itself (slower evaporating for hotter temperatures, or vice versa). If none of that works, then it may be the chosen paint is too precious and fussy.

 

I think it's fair to say that hardly any contest winning modellers (and almost none of us who have absolutely no chance of winning a contest) work in tightly temperature and humidity controlled environments; it's more a case of finding out how to tweak for the conditions. The envelope for most of the better modelling paints is fairly wide though.

 

The room does sound uncomfortable though so whilst I'm onboard with having a big screen and a powerful computer, I do think it's worth trying to manage their heat output (and your electricity bill!) by turning them off when not using them. If you need to leave the PC running for processing ops you can still lose the big screen whilst modelling etc. Air conditioning may still be a good move though.

[Merlin]

Hi,

I am today spraying Alclad ll Klear Kote semi matte and gloss mix, so no thinners as such. Trying to get it done this morning currently 24C in studio and 58% humidity  with window open all night so that shows what we actually get as base level when due 28 by 1pm and 32 by 4pm today, sun gets in 4pm onwards.

I also intend to be spraying your RAF and Luft paints in the future so what thinners are best on such days. I try to avoid hot days but the calendar and weather combination have been unkind for my unavoidable varnishing today for a deadline already missed 4 times, the trouble for modelling for shows.

Every time I need to access forum or internet or write my modelling notes up as I do whilst modelling the pc goes on. No money for getting a new laptop  though., and air con I would love but many £k.

 

Merlin

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

Hi,

 

If you're really worried about overly fast drying times with ours, then white spirit will slow them right down. Whilst in Scotland with lower ambient temperatures though, most of the south facing side of my house is glass with my modelling room in a mezzanine room behind two separate sets of south facing windows so it can get rather hot. Spraying at <15psi with our thinners though I don't get any trouble. I have a north facing velux which is always open during painting for ventilation. You'd normally only get orange peel in particular if clarting on heavy coats and getting an overly wet coat. If you mist on in many light passes you won't suffer orange peel generally. Conversely if you are getting a grainy or gritty finish (not normally an issue with enamels) then it's drying in flight. Lower spray pressure and/or oilier thinner helps in that case.

[Merlin]

Hi,

White spirit, triple refined is the stuff to use, not B&Q etc which is fit for brush cleaning only, I am told.

Do you find that the B&Q stuff works fine with CC. I dont want sticky CC, must be totally handleable. Many yrs ago I tried it when White Ensign and it was tacky 2 days later, couldnt hold objects they were reluctant to leave my fingers., and a second coat attacked the first and exposed the plastic. So I am treading carefully.

 

Mr Hobby self levelling thinners is said to be the final go to thinners now and can be used with its intended brand but also works really well with enamels, so it is said. Have you tried that with Colourcoats ?

I intend to play it by the book and assess CC with the intended thinners so wait until weather not so hot as 28C is not fair in a test. There again thats a test in itself whats it like in high temps, so maybe I will also do that, as well as in a sane temperature. Not sure if its a slow dry thinner, but self levelling maybe so, or just different ingredients like a retarder allowing time for pigments and media to blend. Whats its secret I wonder.

 

I managed to get Alclad ll down in 26C and 60% humidity today so thats promising, nice result, until cheap chinese airbrush splattered a collection of it out from the V protector up front. just hope that evaporates to not noticeable,

tip : remove the tip as at 10psi it accumulates during a covering pass and splatt. and beware exposed needle, dont blame me if you forget folks !

 

Merlin

Edited July 23, 2019 by Merlin

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

Enamel will thin with pretty much any hydrocarbon but the variable is how fast the chosen thinner will flash off. More expensive white spirit doesn't seem to offer much benefit thinning enamels over cheap stuff. The main characteristic is that the average molecule length of both expensive and cheap white spirit is about twice the length of the average molecule length in naptha; i.e. it's a heavier petrochemical fraction and therefore it evaporates much slower. Even in the temperatures you describe I'd start with our own thinner (substantially naptha based) and only then consider trying to extend drying times if suffering symptoms of drying whilst airborne. White spirit is slow to evaporate. I'm aware that back in the WEM days they recommended white spirit, but that may have been a hangover from the "olden days" where most people used white spirit and also where so many formed the erroneous view that enamels take forever to dry. It's the white spirit that does it... Well, that and heavy coats of full gloss paint.

 

Whether lacquer or enamel, if you spray them on the same way using a light, faster evaporating thinner in the latter case, both will be handle able shortly afterwards.

 

It sounds like someone or some people have told you lots of stuff, but there's really no substitute for just getting some airbrush time first hand and find out for yourself what you like best.

[Mark Harmsworth]

My room is south facing and this time of year would get the sun from about 9.30 am to about 3pm. But I have horizontal blinds which I have completely closed when the sun is shining. The windows stay shut.  I have no idea what the temperature or humidity is. If I feel uncomfortable I walk away - but that hardly ever happens.

 

I airbrush acrylics and haven't noticed much difference between summer and winter - except for what I'm wearing. I don't have anything generating extra heat except several desk lamps. The extractor fan creates a nice breeze when I'm airbrushing🙂. There's always water to be let out of the water trap in the compressor. I airbrushed yesterday.

 

As for dust - a quick blast from the airbrush clears the desk and I clean my work area in between builds.

Mark