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Mustang Wheel Wells - color question


11bravo

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Saw an online reference that indicated that late war Mustangs (D-20 and beyond) had the "roof" of the wheel well (ie - the underside of the upper wing sheet metal) left unpainted, while the remaining structure of the wheel well was yellow zinc chromate primer.   2 questions - 

 

Was this a common feature on these Mustangs?

 

The reference I saw noted multiple times that only one wheel well was finished like this, the other was all YZC.   Thoughts on this?

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Thanks Graham, I just used the search function and found a great deal of info (probably should have tried that first before posting).   

 

I guess as an additional question - I'm modeling a Korean War vintage F-51D.  Any idea if those later birds would have had their wheel wells repainted during an overhaul process?   

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There's a very small number of photos of -B mustangs (Howards "Ding Hao" springs to mind) that had the "naturel" finish with the YZC spar, so it's not just the late mustangs that had this. There was quite a bit of discussion on Hyperscale a couple of years back; it seems that the unpainted scheme was introduced as a means of speeding up production with the realisation that combat aircraft did not last so long as to have problems with corrosion.

Here's Ding Hao

20cf92e9-7825-41c0-a772-e7c1f71464ed.jpg

And here's a -A in production

4e1b53ca-95d0-4db3-b609-da1ddf5a14b7.jpg

 

Restored aircraft feature a range of colours from YZC over interior green to aluminium lacquer, but this is post war warbirds. 

 

I won't recommend a particular scheme, nor ask you to find photo to substantiate your claim to a particular scheme as I consider that approach to be almost impossible. Personally I always go with the natural/YZC spar to be at least consistent.

 

HTH Finn

 

Edit: Korean war P-51 was indeed overhauled, but there was quite a rush to get the aircraft ready, so suspect that such detail would be ignored.

Edited by FinnAndersen
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11Bravo,

 

See the attached link to a late-war P-51D-30-NA restored recently, which was basically recovered in original fit and interior finish; in the wheel bay photos, you can see how the wing spar/back of the wheel bay, and roof of the wheel bay was finished- from what I have read, this asymmetrical application of yellow zinc chromate primer was common in the late production blocks. I would imagine the stiffeners and other structural fittings were pre-finished in zinc chromate, thus you would see a natural metal roof combined with the primed parts...pretty hard to duplicate in 1/72! I have seen other restored Mustangs with this same finish in the wheel bays, but you already know the caveat about using restored aircraft for color references! HJGB is based here in San Antonio, and I have been up close and personal with her and have talked with her owner/pilot at airshows, and Bruce said she was pretty much recovered in the same interior fit/ finish as when she left the factory, so I think she is a pretty good reference. Hope this helps! (BTW, the tail warning radar and gunsight work on this Mustang!) That being said, there was a lot of variation in how the wheel bays were finished on the D's, and it's almost impossible to find good wartime  photgraphs- if there were more crew chiefs that were model builders back then, we would have had more interior and wheel bay photos, methinks!

Mike

 

http://www.midwestaero.com/site/Photo_Gallery/Pages/Happy_Jacks_Go_Buggy.html

 

As far as the scheme goes that was used for the restoration, the original HJGB was a P-51D-5-NA without the dorsal fin strake, but Bruce wanted to do a scheme that wasn't done to death and as Jack Ilfrey was a Houston, TX native,  markings for a Texas-born ace were deemed an fitting tribute! Jack also flew a later production P-51D with the strake, but it had different markings- just so you know!

Edited by 72modeler
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2 hours ago, 72modeler said:

 

 

I would imagine the stiffeners and other structural fittings were pre-finished in zinc chromate, thus you would see a natural metal roof combined with the primed parts...pretty hard to duplicate in 1/72! 

Oh well..... (showing off shamelessly)

 

C21-C508-E-0-FF2-4321-A0-A6-AE2-FD096-F7

 

😉😎

 

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Just to chime in - the duralumin sheet metal was deemed ok as was but more reactive aluminium extrusions were primed, as well as the complete front face of the spar.

 

The F-51Ds deployed to Korea had time to have their cockpits painted black from ANA611 Interior Green, and all had their main undercarriage uplocks modified following some fatal accidents involving wings coming off wartime P-51s as a result of some failure mechanism associated with the undercarriage uplock inadequacy, so I wouldn't be too suprised to find out that they all had some zinc chromate primer in the wheel wells too.

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The uplock failure was discovered shortly after the introduction of the P-51D, and all the wartime ones were modified or built to the new standard.  The key evidence, as I understand it, was discovered after a crash locally, a P-51D out of BAD 2 Warton.  If there were a series of postwar incidents of wing failure the reason was different.

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1 hour ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

The F-51Ds deployed to Korea had time to have their cockpits painted black from ANA611 Interior Green,

I would bet all of the ones collected from ANG units that went through reburbishment/IRAN at one of the air depots most likely did, but the ones held in storage in Japan  that were hurriedly put back into service  most likely had their cockpits and wheel bays in whatever finish they had  when put onto storage.

Mike

 

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One P-51 unit was still operational in Japan, so I suspect that there was a rotating stock of aircraft rather than simply storage.   The first batch gathered from the ANG or wherever was sent out in such a rush that they were not even cocooned for the journey, so they certainly wouldn't have been overhauled in any way.

 

It does seem to me that having built the aircraft without anti-corrosion protection expecting a short flying life, the USAF was faced in 1945 with a problem of making the same fleet last for years.  I suggest that they would have set up a refurbishment programme by 1946, if on a low priority, so that the examples retained for frontline service were fit for the job.  So it is reasonable to assume that those in Japan will have gone through this programme already.  Whether this would be true for ANG airframes or those stored in the US may be open to some doubt, but it was 1950.

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Graham,

 

From my copy of Mustangs Over Korea, by David R. McClaren, I will paraphrase some of the text passages that dealt with where Mustangs came from that were used in the Korean War. It seems that the aircraft were a mixture of those taken from storage in Japan, those allocated from stateside ANG units, and a small number of operational 5th AF aircraft that were requested for the ROKAF. That being said, there probably wasn't much time for  depot level  maintenance and/or refurbishment, and I'm sure some of the actively flown ANG Mustangs had been cycled through one or more of the depots (most likely McClellan) as a part of their IRAN, so I'm thinking there would be a mixture of aircraft with black and/or interior green  cockpits; I have no idea how the wheel bays might have been treated, but guessing either as finished from the factory or possibly re-spayed with zinc chromate primer, if refurbished at one of the depots.. They were pulling P-51's from all over the U.S.!

There were 10 Mustangs available at the start of hostilities, and were requested by Rhee for the ROKAF; they were the only ones still operational in 5th AF, and were tired tow-ships. A program was begun to pull Mustangs awaiting salvage at Johnson AB, but that was only a couple dozen aircraft. It  was decided to request P-51's from selected ANG units, and 79 Mustangs were shipped on the U.S.S. Boxer with a second group of 66 being taken from storage at McClellan AB. (Since McClellan was one of the air depots, it's possible that these aircraft had the black refinished cockpits and possibly zinc chromate wheel bays.) It had to be a very chaotic and confusing supply situation!

 

I'm having the same issues as 11bravo regarding interior colors, as I have always wanted to do a 36th FS 8th FBG F-51D-25-NT 44-84974. Mac's revenge/Ol Anchor bottom, as flown by the Sq. C.O. Lt. Col. James O'Donnell, and it appears to have the black-painted cockpit, from the few photos I have found, but have no idea as to how the wheel bays were finished- have to make an educated guess on that! I did find out that it was one of the 95th FIS Mustangs unloaded off of the Boxer. I also vaguely recall reading a topic discussion on the P-51 SIG that very late WW2 production Mustangs had the inside canopy rails and the area from the sills to the consoles painted black; maybe this was also done at the depot level when Mustangs went  through IRAN?

 

Off topic, to be sure, but I thought this information might be of interest.

Mike

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There's some great stuff about this question in the thread below. It seems that due to the production process and batches of parts used, there were some Mustangs that rooled off the line with the roof of one wheel well in YZC, and the other unpainted. Robs were generaaly yellow but assorted bits of GZC also around the place. Really interesting.

 

Justin

PS at least i think that was the thread. Some decent pics anyway. John Terrell is the authority.

Edited by Bedders
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4 hours ago, Bedders said:

There's some great stuff about this question in the thread below. It seems that due to the production process and batches of parts used, there were some Mustangs that rooled off the line with the roof of one wheel well in YZC, and the other unpainted. Robs were generaaly yellow but assorted bits of GZC also around the place. Really interesting.

 

Justin

PS at least i think that was the thread. Some decent pics anyway. John Terrell is the authority.

Bedders, thanks so much for this link.  This thread is a wonderful resource for all things relating to the P-51D.   Great help!!

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