617 sqn Lancaster BI special ( Grandslam) paint colour advice

[cherisy]

Hi

I know this has been touched upon in previous threads about the Grandslam lanc .

 

I am aware as a result that the light green/light earth/ocean gray was to make the aircraft  easily recognisable to other Lancs in the formation as a "special store" carrier.

 

Im working on the old Airfix Grand slam offering. Can anyone give me an idea of the best match in the humbrol range? I  have seen mention of 102/93/106 or 86/93. To muddy the water further Urbans colour reference on the IPMS Stockholm site mentions 94 as a near match to light earth. I was told some time back that 86/93 was a good match for the light green/light earth on the RAF shadow shade on their biplanes, so would this have still been the same shade in 1945?

 

Thanks in advance

 

Lee

[Graham Boak]

It is perhaps worth considering that this scheme was only recorded postwar during specific trials.  It has been said that the wartime operations were carried out in standard camouflage.  However, it makes for a great model.

 

93 and 94 are pretty close anyway, as I recall.    Yes, the colours were the same in the shadow shading scheme as in 1945.  However, the exact shades are available from Sovereign Hobbies.

[Seahawk]

17 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

It is perhaps worth considering that this scheme was only recorded postwar during specific trials.  It has been said that the wartime operations were carried out in standard camouflage. 

I would welcome evidence to support that assertion.  Certainly some Grand Slam (GS) aircraft were in standard camouflage (eg PD112 YZ-S which dropped the first GS in anger) but later aircraft (as far as my rummaging through references has shown, from PD114 onward) were in the day scheme.  There are dated photographs showing day-camouflaged GRAND SLAM aircraft in action before the end of the war (and all GS missions were close to the end of the war).  For starters 2 photographs on p.264 of the Red Kite book Dambusters; The Definitive History (Ward/Lee) show a formation 617 Sq put up 2 days after VE Day.  All 4 GS aircraft (PD114 YZ-B, PD118 YZ-M, PD119 YZ-J, PD129 YZ-O) are in the day scheme and the book records their individual participation in a number of GS missions before the end of the war (indeed YZ-J was the OC Fauquier's aircraft and was originally intended to drop the first operational GS on Bielefeld Viaduct on 13 March).  So, unless 617 Sq decided to spend the 2 days after VE-day in an orgy of aircraft painting, I think we can conclude that they operated before VE-Day in the day camouflage.

 

What is certainly true is that the equation of the colours in the  GS day scheme to Light Earth, Light Green and Ocean Grey derives from a visit the respected aviation artist C Rupert Moore made after the war when ex-617 Sq GS aircraft were being operated by 15 Sq on various trials.  Here irresistible force meets immovable object: on the one hand Light Green/Light Earth and especially Ocean Grey sound improbable and AFAIK no corroborating painting instructions have ever been unearthed, on the other we have the eyewitness testimony of a trained aviation artist armed with colour chips visiting specifically to record colours for the painting of a 617 Sq GS Lancaster he was to produce for the dustjacket of Aircraft Of The Fighting Powers Vol VII.  You pays your money and takes your choice.  It's all thrashed out in the earlier GS Lancaster thread which I gather OP has already read.

[cherisy]

Yep certainly have. The OP on that thread was going for Humbrol 102/93/106. I'm not convinced about the 102 as I had heard of light green 86 being used on the biplane shadow scheme. I don't have the luxury of using life colour etc so stick with humbrol.Just wondered if anyone had a different take on the matter.

[Seahawk]

For what it's worth, in that VE-Day +2 photo  mentioned above, I can't detect any tonal difference between the upper surface colours of the YZ-coded GS Lancasters in the day scheme and the KC-coded Lancasters in standard DE/DG/Night in the same formation, so maybe don't go overboard on the lightness of the Light Green.

[cherisy]

I've now revisited that photo. I see your point. I think I will stick to a darker green . Cheers 😄

[Bt0409]

I have read all the comments on the exterior colours for the BI Grand Slam aircraft but is there any information out there as to the interior colour? I have read that late war bombers were painted differently as they didn't need the camoflage protection due to the depleted luftwaffe being much less of a threat and the fact that they were used on day bombing raids. I have the Tamiya 1/48 kit for the BI Grand Slam but their colours don't look right to me.

[cherisy]

15 minutes ago, Bt0409 said:

I have read all the comments on the exterior colours for the BI Grand Slam aircraft but is there any information out there as to the interior colour? I have read that late war bombers were painted differently as they didn't need the camoflage protection due to the depleted luftwaffe being much less of a threat and the fact that they were used on day bombing raids. I have the Tamiya 1/48 kit for the BI Grand Slam but their colours don't look right to me.

As a rule late war lancs cockpits were  black forward of the main spar  . Rear of that was grey green. I've been in both S for Sugar at the RAF museum and PA474 the BBMF lanc and both are great green from main spar back.

All the B1 specials were from the PD serial range and late builds.