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I went in thinking that this would all be a waste of time and possibly an opportunity to poke fun at bits and pieces, however came out of it rather pleased I’d watched it. The main character that plays Richard Best was a little annoying, however you can hardly expect anything less from a Hollywood flick. The Dauntless ‘Bunny Hop’ manoeuvre just prior to Carrier landing was humorous, but overall the flying looked good and small aircraft details were rather acceptable IMO. The best part was it actually told a story that non historical folk could follow, hardly something that ‘Dunkirk’ can claim to do, which for me is probably up there as one of the worst war movies ever made.
 

Cheers.. Dave (now where’s my Dauntless kit!!)

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just watched the trailer, all I can say is it looks like a right load of gentleman's vegetables.

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I watched it the other week, being careful to flick my aviation knowledge (such as it is) to "OFF", and you know what?  I quite enjoyed it.  There were a few chocolate wing spars, and a slight issue with the Dauntless being a lumbering dive bomber that couldn't pull out of an almost perpendicular dive in 8ft, but yeah.  I wouldn't be too unhappy if I had to watch it again :)

 

Compare it to Red Tails*, and it looks like a complete cinematic masterpiece worthy of all the Oscars in the world.

 

* My personal pick for the worst butchering of a worthy tale of success over adversity, poor CGI, terrible "flight" mechanics, script and overall why did you botherness.  Worse even than Pearl Harbour, which had one saving grace called Kate.  Give me the original with Larry Fishburne any day of the week.

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On 3/3/2020 at 10:26 PM, Mike said:

I watched it the other week, being careful to flick my aviation knowledge (such as it is) to "OFF", and you know what?  I quite enjoyed it.  There were a few chocolate wing spars, and a slight issue with the Dauntless being a lumbering dive bomber that couldn't pull out of an almost perpendicular dive in 8ft, but yeah.  I wouldn't be too unhappy if I had to watch it again :)

 

Compare it to Red Tails*, and it looks like a complete cinematic masterpiece worthy of all the Oscars in the world.

 

* My personal pick for the worst butchering of a worthy tale of success over adversity, poor CGI, terrible "flight" mechanics, script and overall why did you botherness.  Worse even than Pearl Harbour, which had one saving grace called Kate.  Give me the original with Larry Fishburne any day of the week.

By Kate, I assume you weren't referring to the Nakajima B-5 N variety? 😉.

You're right of course! Actually, my favourite moments in the abomination that was "Red Rails" were the impossible stall turn by the P-51, the seeming destruction of a German Destroyer by nothing bigger than. 50 calibre machine gun bullets and, best of all, a P-51 being riddled with and, shrugging off 30mm cannon rounds as if they were Marshmallows

Allan

 

 

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19 minutes ago, Albeback52 said:

P-51 being riddled with and, shrugging off 30mm cannon rounds as if they were Marshmallows

Allan

I remember thinking something similar at the time the Mustang and Me.262 were squaring off and the US pilot took at least one round in the shoulder.  A 30mm or even a 20mm cannon shell would have left him with a big gap where his shoulder used to be, which would have also meant instant death from his heart becoming part of the pink mist.  I don't know whether that incident was a total fabrication to prove his bravery under fire, or whether the shoulder wound was added to a known event, but it kind of ruined it (a bit more if that was at all possible) for me.

 

I seem to recall that there were a couple of incidents like that in Midway.  Turned off my brain though, so I don't recall :)

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19 hours ago, Mike said:

I remember thinking something similar at the time the Mustang and Me.262 were squaring off and the US pilot took at least one round in the shoulder.  A 30mm or even a 20mm cannon shell would have left him with a big gap where his shoulder used to be, which would have also meant instant death from his heart becoming part of the pink mist.  I don't know whether that incident was a total fabrication to prove his bravery under fire, or whether the shoulder wound was added to a known event, but it kind of ruined it (a bit more if that was at all possible) for me.

 

I seem to recall that there were a couple of incidents like that in Midway.  Turned off my brain though, so I don't recall :)

Certainly no argument here Mike. 😊.

If you want to see an even more ludicrous dog fight then, I can think of nothing better (or worse) than Flyboys!

To see WWI fighters of very modest performance moving with the apparent speed of X wings and TIE fighters in one scene was truly amazing to behold! 😂.

I don't think anybody will beat the flying sequences in either The Blue Max or, Battle of Britain. But, of course, these were real aeroplanes flown by real pilots.

Allan

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48 minutes ago, Albeback52 said:

Certainly no argument here Mike. 😊.

If you want to see an even more ludicrous fog fight then, I can think of nothing better (or worse) than Flyboys!

To see WWI fighters of very modest performance moving with the apparent speed of X wings and TIE fighters in one scene was truly amazing to behold! 😂.

I don't think anybody will beat the flying sequences in either The Blue Max or, Battle of Britain. But, of course, these were real aeroplanes flown by real pilots.

Allan

(At the risk of thread drift), Isn't that the one where all the German aeroplanes are red? Gadawful load of dreck (and this is me not mentioning that even the CGI Nieuports had radial engines. After all, most of the audience wouldn't know the difference, so why bother with accuracy).

 

Paul.

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2 hours ago, Paul Thompson said:

(At the risk of thread drift), Isn't that the one where all the German aeroplanes are red? Gadawful load of dreck (and this is me not mentioning that even the CGI Nieuports had radial engines. After all, most of the audience wouldn't know the difference, so why bother with accuracy).

 

Paul.

That's the one!!

I also remember the crewman running along the top of the Zeppelin!  Why? Where could he go? They had no parachutes....!

 

Allan

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5 minutes ago, Albeback52 said:

That's the one!!

I also remember the crewman running along the top of the Zeppelin!  Why? Where could he go? They had no parachutes....!

 

Allan

Actually at least to my mind that one was forgiveable - I'd think he would indeed have run, for the same reason doomed pilots used to jump from burning aircraft. Also, some german pilots did have parachutes later in the war (Ernst Udet, for example, owed his life to one), and although I don't know, I'd expect a zeppelin would have carried some. Perhaps they came in after zepp use was curtailed. But that's altogether too serious for the original purpose of this thread.

 

Interesting to see how different reactions are to the new film.

 

Paul.

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13 minutes ago, Paul Thompson said:

Actually at least to my mind that one was forgiveable - I'd think he would indeed have run, for the same reason doomed pilots used to jump from burning aircraft. Also, some german pilots did have parachutes later in the war (Ernst Udet, for example, owed his life to one), and although I don't know, I'd expect a zeppelin would have carried some. Perhaps they came in after zepp use was curtailed. But that's altogether too serious for the original purpose of this thread.

 

Interesting to see how different reactions are to the new film.

 

Paul.

Fair comment Paul. I have, as yet, not seen Midway but, it is now available to rent on Amazon Video.

I will watch it at the weekend! Who knows, I might actually enjoy it.

Perhaps my judgement is clouded after watching the truly  horrible, cringefest that was Pearl Harbour!

I still have the original 1976 Midway on DVD. I can live with use of stock footage and, existing aircraft made up to look like the real thing.

What I cannot get around is this strange obsession film producers seem to have for including sickly and completely irrelevant and unnecessary romantic sub plots. Midway is a great story on its own. Why spoil it with extraneous nonsense?

 

Allan

 

Ps - wonder if anyone will ever remake 30 Seconds Over Tokyo.One of my favourites.

Edited by Albeback52
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7 hours ago, Albeback52 said:

I still have the original 1976 Midway on DVD.

Same here along with Tora,Tora,Tora and a lot of other films made in the 40's/50's which use stock footage (if it's in B/W even better)...I really can't understand this obsession with remaking classic films and ruining the whole thing..(i haven't seen the film and have no intention of)

How about remakes of these with CGI

 

The Silent Enemy.

The First of the Few.

Reach for the Sky.

The Long and the Short and the Tall.

For Those In Peril.

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6 hours ago, Vince1159 said:

Same here along with Tora,Tora,Tora and a lot of other films made in the 40's/50's which use stock footage (if it's in B/W even better)...I really can't understand this obsession with remaking classic films and ruining the whole thing..(i haven't seen the film and have no intention of)

How about remakes of these with CGI

 

The Silent Enemy.

The First of the Few.

Reach for the Sky.

The Long and the Short and the Tall.

For Those In Peril.

I have no issue with remaking classic films per se!

It's just the remakes never seem to be anything like as good as the originals.

As to your suggestions, interesting choices. Definitely The First of the Few and, Reach for the Sky. However, only if they would remain true to the spirit of the originals and, not be loaded down with silly, extraneous sub plots etc!

However, who could top the fine performances of David Niven, Leslie Howard and, especially Kenneth More in the role of Douglas Bader ?

I would suggest that Battle of the River Plate and, Sink the Bismark would be fine candidates but, again, only if they stick to the original plots.

Digressing slightly, there is one remake that really makes me shudder and, it is the ghastly 2011 remake of Conan the Barbarian! 😂. Pure sacrilege. Nobody could beat Big Arnie. I loved the original. Cheap, cheesy,bad acting, even worse dialogue, big rubber snake and all! 🤣🤣. It has a charm and humour all of its own!

I will give Midway the benefit of the doubt (for now). I will be renting it for the weekend!

 

Allan

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I enjoyed it, but wasn't convinced of his accent as a "yank". Too much in the seat of your pants flying.

 

But seeing the chrysanthemums on the lead Japanese cruisers plowing through the waves were good.

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Well, I have now watched it. And, you know what? I quite enjoyed it. Wasn't nearly as bad as I was expecting.

I think my initial reservations were coloured by the excrement fest that was Pearl Harbour. Guess I wasn't alone in that.

l think the flying sequences overall were pretty well done and, I think the seemingly improbable stall turn by Best's SBD was actually based on a real engagement where Lt S Vejtasa and his gunner successfully defended themselves from multiple fighter attacks.

I wasn't convinced though by the SBD finally pulling out of its dive at actual sea level while in contact with the water!!

Still, I have to say it was pretty well acted and lacking the extraneous fluff that helped ruin Pearl Harbour.

I think it was also a nice, if sad touch that the tragic fate of Lt O'Flaherty and his gunner Bruno Guido was not forgotten amongst all the ritual heroics.

Overall, a good effort.

 

Allan

 

Ps. For tonight's viewing, a double bill comprising "Invincible", a pretty decent Russian film based on the exploits of an actual highly decorated  KV-1 tank commander and crew and, Iron Fury ( a k a T-34)

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On 3/11/2020 at 8:43 AM, Albeback52 said:

Certainly no argument here Mike. 😊.

If you want to see an even more ludicrous dog fight then, I can think of nothing better (or worse) than Flyboys!

To see WWI fighters of very modest performance moving with the apparent speed of X wings and TIE fighters in one scene was truly amazing to behold! 😂.

I don't think anybody will beat the flying sequences in either The Blue Max or, Battle of Britain. But, of course, these were real aeroplanes flown by real pilots.

Allan

 

If we're talking ludicrous dogfight sequences,  then "Firefox" needs a mention....    lifted straight from the Star Wars Death Star trench run....

 

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Okay, I know I shouldn't, but I'll rent the thing tonight. BTW, real pilots and aeroplanes help, but doesn't guarantee good sequences. Many of he Nieuports in Flyboys were real, albeit (understandably) replicas. Can't recall now, but I think one or two of the Fokker DrIs were real as well. CGI was used to bump up the numbers and produce the more ludicrous aerobatics.  Imagine what might have happened to BoB and the Blue Max if they'd had access to CGI, without the nous or maturity for self restraint.

 

Paul.

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Rented it and watched Midway last night. It’s not a great movie but I agree with several posters above. The acting by some better known actors of the better known participants was pretty good and a redeeming feature. Also as said if the historical and aircraft knowledge files in the brain were switched off it didn’t get hopelessly divorced from reality so much as to irritate unlike say the later “Pearl Harbor”  

 

So worth the fiver paid. 
 

Unlike the movie Fury which the basic premise of had to be the biggest laugh in war movie history. Crack German battalion held up by disabled Sherman stuck in the middle of a country road acting as a mini castle. It would have lasted about as long as it takes to say panzerfaust 

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I went and saw Midway when it first came out for something to do. Not expecting much. The lead Ed Skrein ( Dick Best) always seems to me that he's chewing gum and they even made this part of the story. Acting was ho-hum. What I did do though, as I do, was after the movie go check it's historical accuracy. Wikipedia gives a good list.  It did try to maintain some accuracy and the thing that stuck in my mind was the bravery of the actual young men that it portrays and some of the reality of what they achieved and sacrificed, every bit as amazing as the movie. The code breaking and Japanese side is also very interesting. Those who are really into technical accuracy will be irritated but most of us love the 1969 "Battle of Britain" with yellow-nosed Buchons and Casa 2.111's. I think the makers tried to get some of the detail right. It's worth a look and for me is way ahead of the more recent Pearl Harbour or Red Tails which can truly be avoided at all costs. 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, JohnT said:

Unlike the movie Fury which the basic premise of had to be the biggest laugh in war movie history. Crack German battalion held up by disabled Sherman stuck in the middle of a country road acting as a mini castle. It would have lasted about as long as it takes to say panzerfaust 

I just saw John's post. I watch Fury quite regularly up to point just after the Tiger kill. I think it's a great movie to that point.  

 

 

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56 minutes ago, Ray_W said:

I just saw John's post. I watch Fury quite regularly up to point just after the Tiger kill. I think it's a great movie to that point.  

 

 

To be fair that’s a good point. It’s just the premise of the end that kills the movie. Funny how often that happens. I recall sitting in the cinema watching Michael Douglas “drown” bunny 🐰 boiler Glenn Close in the bath at the end of Fatal Attraction and thinking please don’t spoil this by having her revive as that would be stupid.  :( Yup

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  • 5 months later...

Well, I finally got round to watching this today (hey, it was “free” on Amazon).

 

And no, I didn’t think it was as bad as people say.  It was far, far worse.

 

Some of the worst CGI I’ve seen in a current film, terrible dialogue and rubbish acting. It’s difficult to understand how the script got past Hollywood QC. Oh wait a moment....

 

Graham

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