1/32 - Douglas A-26B & C Invader by HobbyBoss - released - Resin2Detail detailing sets

[SC2015]

 

20 hours ago, VMA131Marine said:

Is it being obsessive to find it unacceptable that the engines are missing 22.2% of their cylinders. There are shape issues too. How bad does a kit have to be before it’s too bad?

I have a simple solution for everyone upset about the kit: Don´t buy it

[VMA131Marine]

5 hours ago, SC2015 said:

 

I have a simple solution for everyone upset about the kit: Don´t buy it

That’s a fair point. But, it’s also fair to point out the kits glaring inaccuracies so that people who might still want to buy it know what they are getting themselves into.

[gunpowder17]

Im not fussed. Im just going to build it and stick it on a shelf.Nobody ever comes to my house that cares about planes , and to me its just a hobby. I stopped caring about accuracies a while ago , but i can see why some would be annoyed about the kit.

[SC2015]

5 hours ago, VMA131Marine said:

That’s a fair point. But, it’s also fair to point out the kits glaring inaccuracies so that people who might still want to buy it know what they are getting themselves into.

Right, my statement was just related to people who are about to get a heard attack when inaccuracies are discovered. 

[NAVY870]

8 hours ago, SC2015 said:

Right, my statement was just related to people who are about to get a heard attack when inaccuracies are discovered. 

Might want to check your spelling before you start slagging people off there sunshine.

[Mike]

Everyone needs to take a step back and calm down.  It's a model.  Don't like it, don't buy it, but let's discuss it like grown-ups, rather than squabbling, eh?

[Jeepboy]

Fellow Modellers, I have read this with interest.

....have we forgotten the old days of Frog, Revell even Airfix (and others) when part of the hobby was researching and adding detail to a very basic and often only vaguely accurate set of plastic parts.  I agree there is little excuse in these days of modern technology and certain kit manufacturers do seem to excel in strange errors and omissions.  However, as many have said, certain company' reputations go before them, there are reviews aplenty, if you know it and don't like it don't buy it.  Others will be quite happy with sticking parts together to make a "representation" of their favoured subject.

 

Some of us like to do the best we can which, like me,  may not be very good and marvel at the skill of others, some go to the nth degree superdetailing, others are fantastic with painting and weathering.  It does us no favours resorting to every reference possible to show a kit has inaccuracies in a game of one-upmanship.  Leave that to reviewers and sit back in the knowledge you are right.

 

As an aside, yes accuracy matters, but when you look at the real thing, be it plane, tank, car etc there are discrepancies in colour, in markings, in fittings, in panel fitan finish.  WWII aircraft often had mismatched panels due to damage or even something as mundane a damaged fasteners.  D-Day invasion stripes were hand painted in a rush with whatever was to hand with rough demarcation lines, 1980's army Bedford 4 tonner were often hand painted many times and looked as rough as old boots.  

 

It's a hobby, it's fun and we should enjoy what we get, because we don't know what tomorrow will bring.

 

[SC2015]

On 4/13/2020 at 7:09 PM, Jeepboy said:

 

 

It's a hobby, it's fun and we should enjoy what we get, because we don't know what tomorrow will bring.

 

100% right 

[VMA131Marine]

On 4/13/2020 at 7:09 PM, Jeepboy said:

As an aside, yes accuracy matters, but when you look at the real thing, be it plane, tank, car etc there are discrepancies in colour, in markings, in fittings, in panel fitan finish.  WWII aircraft often had mismatched panels due to damage or even something as mundane a damaged fasteners. 

But, we’re not talking about misplaced panel lines or fasteners with this kit. It has engines that are missing four cylinders each, it’s missing a whole turret, the cockpit is only correct for a version of the aircraft that isn’t being kitted, and the clear nose version of the aircraft looks like it’s been over-inflated. This kit would have been panned for its inaccuracies even in 1970.

[VMA131Marine]

On 4/13/2020 at 7:09 PM, Jeepboy said:

 

It's a hobby, it's fun and we should enjoy what we get, because we don't know what tomorrow will bring.

It’s not fun spending a couple of hundred dollars on a kit that’s as fundamentally wrong as this one is. If it was intended as a toy then fine, but HobbyBoss is seriously underestimating their market if they think they can get away with this.

[Laurent]

1 hour ago, VMA131Marine said:

...but HobbyBoss is seriously underestimating their market if they think they can get away with this.

Oh but they will get away with this:

- is there an alternative 1/32 A-26 ? No.

- will there be an alternative in the future ? I really doubt it... too big, too expensive, too risky project in terms of Return On Investment

[tomprobert]

2 hours ago, VMA131Marine said:

It’s not fun spending a couple of hundred dollars on a kit that’s as fundamentally wrong as this one is. If it was intended as a toy then fine, but HobbyBoss is seriously underestimating their market if they think they can get away with this.

 

1 hour ago, Laurent said:

Oh but they will get away with this:

- is there an alternative 1/32 A-26 ? No.

- will there be an alternative in the future ? I really doubt it... too big, too expensive, too risky project in terms of Return On Investment

The solution is simple - don’t buy it. If it’s that bad in your opinion, then why spend a single penny on it? As I said in an earlier post, if you review pictures and don’t like what you see, don’t spend your hard-earned cash on it. 

I don’t get why people get so hung up in this kind of thing. True, there are very limited options when wanting a 1/32nd Invader. It’s either this, or the ID Models vacform. Those passionate about the Invader may well view what HobbyBoss have produced and think there are too many errors for their tastes and pass up on the kit - fine. Others may not give a hoot and buy it and build it warts and all. I doubt all but a very small number of modellers would build the vacform alternative. 
 

The best thing, as I said, is to pass on purchasing this model, or any model for that matter, if you don’t think it meets your standards in accuracy. After all, no one is forcing anyone to part with their money. 
 

Best regards,

Tom

[VMA131Marine]

7 minutes ago, tomprobert said:

I don’t get why people get so hung up in this kind of thing. True, there are very limited options when wanting a 1/32nd Invader. It’s either this, or the ID Models vacform. Those passionate about the Invader may well view what HobbyBoss have produced and think there are too many errors for their tastes and pass up on the kit - fine. Others may not give a hoot and buy it and build it warts and all. I doubt all but a very small number of modellers would build the vacform alternative. 

You’re not wrong, but I also think you’re ignoring the degree to which people look forward to new kits being released and the disappointment that occurs when that kit fails to live up to expectations.
This thread was started in July of last year and since then there have been a number of previews and teasers of the upcoming kit to get people to excited about. For a number of people this will be the kit they always wanted some manufacturer to produce. For those people there will be no sugar-coating the deficiencies of this kit. 
I agree that people are free to buy or not buy whatever they want and I’m fine with people spending money on this A-26, building it out of the box and being happy that they have something that looks like an A-26. It’s a diverse hobby and I’m not criticizing anyone for their particular choices. I’m highly critical of HobbyTrump for producing a kit with so many obvious errors. Most people would never accept any other new product with so many defects.

[VMA131Marine]

1 hour ago, Laurent said:

Oh but they will get away with this:

- is there an alternative 1/32 A-26 ? No.

- will there be an alternative in the future ? I really doubt it... too big, too expensive, too risky project in terms of Return On Investment

Sometimes I wonder if HobbyTrump is conducting a psychological experiment on modelers to see just how much mediocrity and how many inaccuracies we will tolerate before this happens

 

[tomprobert]

18 minutes ago, VMA131Marine said:

You’re not wrong, but I also think you’re ignoring the degree to which people look forward to new kits being released and the disappointment that occurs when that kit fails to live up to expectations.
This thread was started in July of last year and since then there have been a number of previews and teasers of the upcoming kit to get people to excited about. For a number of people this will be the kit they always wanted some manufacturer to produce. For those people there will be no sugar-coating the deficiencies of this kit. 
I agree that people are free to buy or not buy whatever they want and I’m fine with people spending money on this A-26, building it out of the box and being happy that they have something that looks like an A-26. It’s a diverse hobby and I’m not criticizing anyone for their particular choices. I’m highly critical of HobbyTrump for producing a kit with so many obvious errors. Most people would never accept any other new product with so many defects.

I totally get where you’re coming from. If you’re passionate about the A-26 and have been looking forward to it being released, I can understand the disappointment.
 

The fact of the matter is on this occasion their research has been poor and there are numerous mistakes. It’s a crying shame it’s not been done better, but unfortunately for those who want, or indeed hope, for better - this is all you’ve got to work with. 
 

Thousands will no doubt be sold to those who aren’t bothered about its problems. Those who have a higher degree of interest in the A-26 and can’t live with the faults can pass on it - which I expect many will. Again - it’s a shame the kit is wrong in so many ways, but it’s a case of like it or lump it. Perhaps if more people cared and very few were sold it might make the manufacturer stand up and think, but I can’t see that happening. 
 

Best regards,

Tom

[NAVY870]

Hobbyboss will get away with it because they dont care what serious modellers think.

For every one of "us" there are a dozen mug punters that'll buy one smack it together and be chuffed with the result.

As long as they get coin they'll keep pumping out second rate rubbish, sad thing is they scare off the ones who could make a go of it.

 

[Largescale32]

6 hours ago, NAVY870 said:

For every one of "us" there are a dozen mug punters that'll buy one smack it together and be chuffed with the result.

Seems that something went wrong with your education.

[NAVY870]

21 minutes ago, Largescale32 said:

Seems that something went wrong with your education.

My educations fine mate, damn sight better than your manners.

[Laurent]

6 hours ago, NAVY870 said:

As long as they get coin they'll keep pumping out second rate rubbish, sad thing is they scare off the ones who could make a go of it.

The thing is I'm not sure it would be the case. I count 14 sprues so the mould set is about 14 toolings. It's a huge investment and break even could take years to be reached (a 1/32 A-26 kit is kinda bulky). Because of that I doubt another producer would take the risk of tooling another 1/32 Invader.

Several times I've contacted TrumpyBoss suggesting them to submit CAD models exports to be peer-reviewed before tooling. I never got a response so I gave up in the end.

Edited April 16, 2020 by Laurent

[Graham Boak]

The points about describing the inaccuracies, if there are any, in a kit are at least twofold. 

 

1. So those who care about such things are informed before spending their money, which they might have regretted had ignorance reigned.  This may be the only kit of the subject in this scale but It's not as though this subject is the only one worthy of modelling.  A life is only long enough for so many 1/32 kits.

2. So the more skillful are prepared for the need to make the required corrections.  Or to buy them, if available.  Which will affect the cost of the model and the time it requires  Or, if the kit is sold in one country but the aftermarket comes from another, possibly even the availability of such parts.

 

But information is always better than ignorance.  If you don't care about making poor replicas good, or good replicas better, then fair enough and, press on in your own way (as you no doubt will).  But why knock those who do want to correct mistakes?   Does it make you feel good?

[SC2015]

10 hours ago, NAVY870 said:

Hobbyboss will get away with it because they dont care what serious modellers think.

For every one of "us" there are a dozen mug punters that'll buy one smack it together and be chuffed with the result.

As long as they get coin they'll keep pumping out second rate rubbish, sad thing is they scare off the ones who could make a go of it.

 

It has nothing do with that otherwise they wouldn´t be in the business anymore.

And you know what: They are proven right since they are still in the business, still invest money in engineering and pattern/molding and still release kit.

There ain´t any fundings from the chinese goverment anymore as Hobbyboss now longer than five years. 

 

They model has issues, I totally agree.

But nothing you can not correct with skills and parts left over from other kits. 

 

p.s.:

Before you pick on my spelling again: 

it might not be always correct as I´m no native speaker but at least I speak more than one language.

Do you, too? 

[SC2015]

3 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

The points about describing the inaccuracies, if there are any, in a kit are at least twofold. 

 

1. So those who care about such things are informed before spending their money, which they might have regretted had ignorance reigned.  This may be the only kit of the subject in this scale but It's not as though this subject is the only one worthy of modelling.  A life is only long enough for so many 1/32 kits.

2. So the more skillful are prepared for the need to make the required corrections.  Or to buy them, if available.  Which will affect the cost of the model and the time it requires  Or, if the kit is sold in one country but the aftermarket comes from another, possibly even the availability of such parts.

 

But information is always better than ignorance.  If you don't care about making poor replicas good, or good replicas better, then fair enough and, press on in your own way (as you no doubt will).  But why knock those who do want to correct mistakes?   Does it make you feel good?

My intention was not to knock those who want to correct mistakes.

I simply can not understand why people go ballistic over a HOBBY they should enjoy.

Nobody forces anybody to spent hard earned money on a model. 

That and only that is my point.

 

Referring to your last sentence:

What is that model taking everything into account......... Price, overall shape including issues, availability (hey, we have a 1/32 Invader........) and price which is probably less than $120 in one or two years on Ebay.

 

A crab replica?

A poor replica?

A fair replica?

An acceptable replica?

A good replica?

An excellent replica?

 

I tent to say (according to what I can see and taking above points into account) it´s an acceptable replica. 

 

[71chally]

5 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

But information is always better than ignorance.  If you don't care about making poor replicas good, or good replicas better, then fair enough and, press on in your own way (as you no doubt will).  But why knock those who do want to correct mistakes?   Does it make you feel good?

Absolutely well put Graham, I am grateful for the comments made on a kit's accuracies, or otherwise, by either people that take the time to  study a type, that can see the issues from comparisons with the real thing or photographs, or are otherwise associated with the type.

This leads me to appraise a kit on whether the asking price is worth it, taking into account the cost of any possible aftermarket kits needed, or whether I can do the work myself to correct it  - all before I commit to the kit, or decide not to.

 

I also get Steve's/Navy870's point that some manufacturers in particular just seem to be happy releasing inaccurate kits.

It's as straightforward forward to create an accurate kit than an inaccurate one, these days all the information, knowledge and help is out there.

 

Comparing newly relased kits with Matchbox and Frog kits (as someone has earlier) is just plain ridiculous, I love building and improving those kits, but I know what I'm getting with these 30-40 year old releases.

Spending a £60 - £100 plus on an obviously inaccurate model just doesn't add up for me I'm afraid, and in this day and age I can't see why that should be the case.

 

What I don't get is why people have to fight this helpful information and start using phrases like 'ballistic', and 'if you don't like it, don't buy'.

 

A forum is for the dissemination of useful information, not to just gleeful accept everything that is given to us.

 

 

Edited April 16, 2020 by 71chally

[Laurent]

5 hours ago, 71chally said:

It's as straightforward forward to create an accurate kit than an inaccurate one, these days all the information, knowledge and help is out there.

No it isn't. In the days of Monogram (for example) the toolmaker would be gathering reference material, visit museums, measure things up, etc. Those days are over, the toolmaker is retired and often gone. Nowadays a CAD designer in China is handed out a folder of JPGs, PDFs or whatever and asked "Do a CAD model out of this. You have N months to do it then the files will be sent directly to the workshop". The CAD designer isn't the bad guy, he does what he can with what he has in a given amount of time. The problem is his boss and his boss's boss. There's nobody to check if the CAD designer may have done an error as his boss and his boss's boss do not think a CAD quality control process would have any added value. Modellers who care for accuracy are doomed and it's not about to change. There's no "A-team" or "B-team" at TrumpyBoss: release of a pretty accurate model is just a happy accident.

Edited April 16, 2020 by Laurent

[VMA131Marine]

10 hours ago, SC2015 said:

They model has issues, I totally agree.

But nothing you can not correct with skills and parts left over from other kits. 

At the price point this kit is selling for, I really expect more than to be told that the kit has mistakes but I can correct them if I have enough skill and a sizable spares box. And correcting the glass nose on the C will take a lot of skill. I mean the problems aren’t in dead parrot territory, but they aren’t far off.