Australian F-111 1/48 build Hobbyboss.

[Pappy]

13 hours ago, Deano353 said:

I have to say you guys have been great help with facts I did not know and pointing me in the right direction with the build. I have not really posted many builds before only two I think. But I will be posting more builds definitely as this has been a wealth of knowledge as you guys know the real deal so can't get better reference than that. So guys here's one for you before I get to decalling it's not finished yet but neither is the week but I'm making these instead! 

I must admit I also have a soft spot for  the liffy water!

 

[f111guru]

Well I looked on Italeri's website and the Combat Aircraft Support Group kit and their F-111 kit have been discontinued. For how long is unknown. I have been getting these kits and using them in dioramas. I do know they have been reissued over the years. They were first issued by ESCI way back in the mid 70's. ESCI produced a aircraft weapons set also. So unless some hobby shop has them sitting on there shelf I found none in the usual websites I go to.

 

Ron VanDerwarker

[Deano353]

Got the pod painted the right colour now.

[Uncle Uncool]

Deano, my mate.

Such an inspiring work you're doing with this kit. I'm of the idea that the knowledge that Ronnie has provided is a tad more than an added bonus to anyone tackling the Aardvark kits.

I for myself am about to tackle the mods on the awful Hobby Boss flaps, as I fancy my FB-111A kit with everything deployed.

Just trying to figure out how to overcome the inside out width on the flaps here (with Ronnie's permission)

 

 

It's the sandwiched part un this picture - from top to bottom or viceversa - which is playing havoc with my mind. The idea I've got for the reversal of the width is to measure each segment between rails and copy them with the broadest one inside. Will broaden the innermost segment (the one on the left in Ron's piccy), and diminish the width of the outermost (the right one).

Thing is whether or not I will need to shorten the rails in the same fashion as well, I mean, from left to right in the piccy. Couldn't figure that out yet. Ronnie...?

My skull is already steaming...

Cheers,

 

Unc²   

 

[Pappy]

On 9/8/2019 at 5:40 AM, Uncle Uncool said:

Deano, my mate.

Such an inspiring work you're doing with this kit. I'm of the idea that the knowledge that Ronnie has provided is a tad more than an added bonus to anyone tackling the Aardvark kits.

I for myself am about to tackle the mods on the awful Hobby Boss flaps, as I fancy my FB-111A kit with everything deployed.

Just trying to figure out how to overcome the inside out width on the flaps here (with Ronnie's permission)

 

 

It's the sandwiched part un this picture - from top to bottom or viceversa - which is playing havoc with my mind. The idea I've got for the reversal of the width is to measure each segment between rails and copy them with the broadest one inside. Will broaden the innermost segment (the one on the left in Ron's piccy), and diminish the width of the outermost (the right one).

Thing is whether or not I will need to shorten the rails in the same fashion as well, I mean, from left to right in the piccy. Couldn't figure that out yet. Ronnie...?

My skull is already steaming...

Cheers,

 

Unc²   

 

G'day Unc, Deano,

 

I hope you don't mind me interrupting your thread, 

 

Yup, another area that HB completely stuffed up.

 

Left unmodified, the resultant flap assembly will be angled away from the wing trailing edge instead of parallel to it as Unc has correctly pointed out which just looks ridiculous.

 

The culprits are the flap vane parts {the bit in red between the flaps and wing in Ron' pic} that have their vanes wider in chord as they approach the wing tips instead of narrowing. Also, note that the narrowing is in the form of a span wise taper rather than a constant chord. You cannot simply install these opposite because the flap vanes themselves are different lengths and the flap guides (the bits running (fore/aft) are handed. To use Ron's pic above as an example, the section currently near the right wing root should be at the left wing tip.

 

Unc, could you not just use a razor saw to separate the flap vanes and then re-attach them in the opposite order  and on the opposite wing side (the way they should be} i.e. with flap vane chord narrowing towards the wing tips? You may still need to add a small section of plastic card to each section {to accommodate for lost material during their removal} and sand to shape but at least you will still have uniform aerofoil shaped parts. As to the length of the flap guide tracks, just test fit and adjust their lengths as required.. The leading edge of the flap assembly should remain parallel with the trailing edge of the wing core, I would just fix the flap vane chord issue first then eyeball the flap vane length by test fitting. 

 

There is also (yet) another stuff HB stuff up withe the extended flaps option, which is that the panels underneath the wing are flush. With the wing in a clean state, these panels (four for the short wing versions and five for the FB/C/G) remain flush.

 

When the flaps and slats deploy however, these forward hinged panels angle upwards to form a convergent duct, energising the boundary layer to delay boundary layer separation. In English, for the modeller, this means these panels located along the trailing edge of the wing core should be cut away and re-attached angled upwards. Matters are further complicated due to the piano hinge style of attachment and the irregular shape of the panels, which once again are handed,

 

To be fair, no kit manufacturer has gotten this detail correct, including Hasegawa who still have the most accurate  F-111 kits and this is a feature that many people will not posses the skills to correct, but would be noticeable in 1/48 scale

 

over to you blue leader

 

Pappy

Edited September 8, 2019 by Pappy

[Uncle Uncool]

Pappy, hey!

23 hours ago, Pappy said:

The culprits are the flap vane parts {the bit in red between the flaps and wing in Ron' pic} that have their vanes wider in chord as they approach the wing tips instead of narrowing. Also, note that the narrowing is in the form of a span wise taper rather than a constant chord. You cannot simply install these opposite because the flap vanes themselves are different lengths and the flap guides (the bits running (fore/aft) are handed. To use Ron's pic above as an example, the section currently near the right wing root should be at the left wing tip.

 Well, now I guess I would first need to clarify whether the chord in the vanes should be constant or should taper in a narrowing fashion towards the wing tip, as I think they should.

23 hours ago, Pappy said:

There is also (yet) another stuff HB stuff up withe the extended flaps option, which is that the panels underneath the wing are flush. With the wing in a clean state, these panels (four for the short wing versions and five for the FB/C/G) remain flush.

 

When the flaps and slats deploy however, these forward hinged panels angle upwards to form a convergent duct, energising the boundary layer to delay boundary layer separation. In English, for the modeller, this means these panels located along the trailing edge of the wing core should be cut away and re-attached angled upwards. Matters are further complicated due to the piano hinge style of attachment and the irregular shape of the panels, which once again are handed

Yeh, indeed. This is a mod I’ve once watched it done on one of @general melchett's build; it was on his F-111K build where he addressed this issue. Incidentally; he did also use a Hobby Boo-Boo kit, by the way.

 

 

As you can see, he went the easy way - no wonder, such a lazy sod he is  - but with regard to the piano-hinged mechanism of the panels, it can be done. I've done it twice in 1/48th scale, on a Monogram F-4 to feature an engine removal and on a Hasegawa F-15C to open up one of the avionics compartment in the nose. It takes time, but it's doable.

I got a 0.10mm chisel blade from GSI Creos (very sharp and tiny), with which I carefully - and patiently - started to score the piano hinges on the recessed detail. In view that the plastic is thick enough as to keep me scoring 'til Kingdom Come in order to get a clean cut out of such an intricate edge, I thought that since only the exterior part of the panel is going to be visible, once the scores were deep enough, I thought I might as well reduce the width of the plastic from the interior face of the panel by carefully sanding. This way the whole process is made a lot easier, and once the panels are cut free I could always add sheet plastic stock on the inner face of the panel to restore the width, if so required.

Cheers,

 

Unc²

[f111guru]

On 9/7/2019 at 1:40 PM, Uncle Uncool said:

Deano, my mate.

Such an inspiring work you're doing with this kit. I'm of the idea that the knowledge that Ronnie has provided is a tad more than an added bonus to anyone tackling the Aardvark kits.

I for myself am about to tackle the mods on the awful Hobby Boss flaps, as I fancy my FB-111A kit with everything deployed.

Just trying to figure out how to overcome the inside out width on the flaps here (with Ronnie's permission)

 

 

It's the sandwiched part un this picture - from top to bottom or viceversa - which is playing havoc with my mind. The idea I've got for the reversal of the width is to measure each segment between rails and copy them with the broadest one inside. Will broaden the innermost segment (the one on the left in Ron's piccy), and diminish the width of the outermost (the right one).

Thing is whether or not I will need to shorten the rails in the same fashion as well, I mean, from left to right in the piccy. Couldn't figure that out yet. Ronnie...?

My skull is already steaming...

Cheers,

 

Unc²   

 

So sorry I'm late on this. The missus and I ventured out of New Mexico to the hill country of Texas for the weekend. The hill country is north of San Antonio and south of Austin.

 

Now back to our regularly scheduled program. The intermediate flap vanes(as There called) fit snug up inside the wing area.

Before I painted the wing. The parts are just sitting in place and for me fit loosely. The FB should not be any different

And

And

And this:

Might want to take in mind that these pictures are from the mid 80's. When I was apart of SAC the aux flap, right at the fuselage was pretty much the norm. However, TAC did not fly where the aux flap came down with the resat of the flap. When we converted the FB-111A to the F-111G the aux flap was already disabled. The diorama I'm planning will have the aux flap down.

 

So working the flap is best to have it fit as tight to the wing as possible. In this below picture is from wing tip inward on a EF-111A and the FB-111A and F-111C and G are no different. I hope this helps.

Also in the above picture you'll notice the small doors adjacent to the flap well deflected up. Neither Hobby Boss kit shows this. The Xtra Parts F-111 flap and slat kit had that. And the FB-111A-F-111G fuselage is 2 foot longer the the other model F-111's.

 

Ron VanDerwarker

[f111guru]

Some where in my stash of info I think I have old deleted tech order parts pages the have the vanes and there components. And Hobby Boss has completely screwed the pouch on the vanes. It's going to take major surgery to correct them. Even now that my brain is cobweb free tried the reverse parts on left and right. Meaning putting the right vane in the left wing. Vanes are correct length but the tracks are way out of place. Back to my original Academy build of flaps. Have thin H channel that I've warmed and rolled for on a flap set that I did along time ago. So
I'll do this for my hobby Boss kits. The Fb-111A kit does not have the correct weapons and fuel tank pivot pylons or fixed tank pylons.

 

Ron VanDerwarker

[f111guru]

Deano,

Doing a great job on the pod. There again no manufacture of the F-111 kit has got the pod correct either. I can go on and on with what I don't like with these kits, But..... would not do any kit justice.

 

Now I'm going to hijack you page for a bit. Received my 2 Hobby Boss kits today and I am not impressed with the EF-111A kit. Seems they took the idea from Academy on the front fairing on the nose gear door. Not the correct leading edge for the fairing between the horizontal stab and the fuselage. This houses I believe the cooling unit for the aft electronics. Correct me if I'm wrong. Ton of other small but nagging issues with this kit.

 

Rant over

 

Keep up the good work Deano

 

Ron VanDerwarker

[Uncle Uncool]

Ronnie, Sir!  How's it going, my mate?

Thanks for your reply. Well, looking at your piccies, I think the chords in the intermediate flap vanes do taper towards the wing tips, some, huh? Been thinking a lot that the best witness to fix this issue on the Hobby Boss flaps would be the Ozmods/Scaledown 1/48 Long Span slat/flap set here:

 

 

Now, as I was going to tell Pappy yesterday (hope Deano is not mad at me for hijacking his build thread).

In order to correct the intermediate flap vanes in the Hobby Boss kit, I don't think using a razor saw to remove them would be wise because the lengths might differ when aligning them to the flap guides afterwards. Also, you might end up with quite a fragile assembly after having glued everything back together.

I had thought of leaving the intermediate flap vanes just as they come in the Hobby Boss kit, fixed to the flap guides just as they are, but instead I'd modify the chords in an inversely manner - i.e, add some sheet plastic stock to the innermost intermediate flap vane to equal the exact length of the outermost one (the second one from the wing tip, as the length of the first intermediate flap vane in the Hobby Boss kit is obviously wrong ). Then I'd work my way to the wing tips inversely, this is, removing the necessary chord in the outer intermediate flap vanes instead, to match the exact chord lengths as they were in the kit.

I know it sounds "loco", but I could sketch something in Photoshop in the arvo.

 

 

With your permission, Ronnie; but what's with that kink at midsize span of the slat in this piccie? It caught my attention.

Yeh, it did... and how!

Cheers,

 

Unc² 

[f111guru]

Deano, Uncle Uncool,

I hijacked Deano page too. Scale down has a great looking wing slat and flap set. I did not get the set when I ordered the FB-111A pylons and some other goodies. It has not been above me to jump dead into scratch building anything that I needed. I have modelling friends that give me all kinds of grief if I build a kit straight out of the box. Sounds like a good idea to build as needed.

 

What I may do is remove the spindle pointy things that I think are suppose to represent jack screws and add H channel slightly curved to that side and fit it to the wing. Meaning the right intermediate reworked flap vane goes on the left and vice versa for the right if the tear drop shape is correct. Haven't got that far. The slat, is 2 piece and never dawned on me that it extended like that.

 

Deano Hobby Boss put the screws to you on the back plate of the fuel dump mast. The C model instructions call out H7 which looking at my 3 A,E FB kits is the FB back plate. Looked in my newly acquired EF-111A kit and there in not and dump mast back plates. None zero zip which is part of the tail sprue.

 

So, as myself being my worst enemy, the EF-111A has at this point 16 major flaws that just aggravate the poop out of me. But I like a challenge.

 

Back to you Deano.

 

Ron VanDerwarker

[Deano353]

Hey guys sorry for the absence I was away for a bit. I saw the Apollo 10 re-entry capsule it was pretty cool and a Soyuz capsule too. Anyway I haven't had much time at the bench with other things in the way. I have started to paint the smaller.details and I have assembled the bombs, and painted them. So not long until decalling.  I assumed the build would be finished by now but it's almost there.

[Uncle Uncool]

Deano, mate!

So, x=-7,67?

[Deano353]

2 hours ago, Uncle Uncool said:

Deano, mate!

So, x=-7,67?

Lol that's part of why I don't get much time at the bench lol had books all over the place hahahaha

[f111guru]

1 hour ago, Deano353 said:

Lol that's part of why I don't get much time at the bench lol had books all over the place hahahaha

Atleast you can say the airplane ate your homework!!  Great job on the paint. Just wondering, your test subject or reference aircraft have a white or red speed brake.

Waiting with anticipation to see the final product when ever that happens. So please take your time because your doing a smashing job so far. You have a aircraft you can be proud of.

 

Ron VanDerwarker

[Deano353]

The inside should be red then? Yeah been taking a while haha the homework after work is never ending lol but yeah I need to add chrome as well around the speed break which I assumed was the landing gear door, or does it have 2 uses?

[f111guru]

The speed brake is just that. Used at one time as a dive brake, speed brake, and is the main wheel well door. My first time working the F-111 aircraft was the FB-111A and the speed brake was painted overall red inside. Some time in my 17 years with the aircraft the speed brake had black non skid rectangles painted around the wheel depressions. I do remember slipping and sliding when I had to climb inside the main wheel well to activate the weapons system on the ground. Below is the Hobby Boss speed brake on the left and the Academy on the right.

Hope that clears things up some.

 

Ron VanDerwarker

[Deano353]

It does cheers

[exdraken]

Nice!

Do these bombs go down down well with the Aussi Vaarks?

Look like GBU-28s to me....

Edited September 19, 2019 by exdraken

[Deano353]

1 hour ago, exdraken said:

Nice!

Do these bombs go down down well wuth the Aussi Vaarks?

Look like GBU-28s to me....

Not sure but this one sure as hell does 😂

[exdraken]

4 minutes ago, Deano353 said:

Not sure but this one sure as hell does 😂

I thought that they are USAF specific..... and were used on the F-111F and later F-15E only.... could be wrong though....

[Deano353]

11 minutes ago, exdraken said:

I thought that they are USAF specific..... and were used on the F-111F and later F-15E only.... could be wrong though....

I think you're right, screwed up on the armament again, Wikipedia just mentioned the hard points in the armament section. I will have to check this out, the GBU 28 is listen as US, Israel and somewhere else I forget but not Australia.  Will have to go back to the drawing board, I'll use these on any 48th scale F15E I happen to get such as the Revell one if it gets re released. I have however gotten the landing gear door painted correctly now and the hydraulic arm was coated with this Christmas tape it's meant for making wrapping paper look better or to make it look like you made a bow something like That, either way it's perfect for chrome parts.

[Deano353]

Fixed the tape, I noticed it wasn't quite long enough, the paint doesn't look great bit I am going to paint the black anti slip on there as well.I notice more errors on these photos than in real life as they're much larger than the parts, the lighting is better by my books at the moment so I must get back to that but I wanted to get an update as I haven't done many lately. I'm gonna finish this one day I swear lol.

[f111guru]

2 hours ago, exdraken said:

I thought that they are USAF specific..... and were used on the F-111F and later F-15E only.... could be wrong though....

@exdraken is correct about the GBU-28 being USAF specific. However, with that being said and the F-111 long since retired. I've not kept up with the F-15E's weapons development. I do know at one time they (GBU-28A/B) was test dropped from the Eagle E. So the Aussies F-111 last content of weapons loads were MK-82, MK-82SE, BSU-49, BSU-50, GBU-12, GBU-10, AIM-9, AGM-142, AGM-84, AGM-88, GBU-15. Which looking at documentation from a few Aussie defense ministry releases those name or most of those weapons are on the F-18 fleet.

 

Ron VanDerwarker

[Deano353]

Thanks, I didn't know where to look for the information online as there's so many sources and you can't really take what's online at face value. So with what you've said there this image below is what I'll stick under the wings. I'm posting this to double check that this is not somehow mislabeled.  I don't know where I came up with those bombs from as they're not even in the instructions to build, I think I just built them without thinking so my fault entirely.