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French F100 camoflage


PhantomBigStu

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Steve, the lack of proper colour in the document is annoying but most of these are referenced to the Afnor standard. Googling the relevant number shows colour samples for a good number of colours. Unfortunately the Afnor deckfan with all the chips costs more than I'd like to spend, a problem that affects pretty much every standard

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9 hours ago, Wez said:

It gives the colour as a match for FS15526 which Steve has matched to something close to RLM78,

You know, Steve, on some of the color photos I saw of preserved/museum French Huns, those that weren't in FS36622 underneath were in a  blue that looked very much like RLM78, come to think of it! Good eye! 

Mike

 

@Giorgio N Thanks for the post- you always have great references; hope you are doing well!

Mike

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Mike, in reality I have to thank Romain ( @rom1  ) for originally posting the link to this document a few years ago. I duly saved this as I like having as many "original" documents on camouflage as I can. When it comes to the research side of colours, I like getting information as accurate as possible and original official documentation is the way to go. That then I end up using on my models paints that are not too accurate only because I already have them in the stash is another matter.. 😁

 

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12 hours ago, 72modeler said:

Is this a great hobby, or what?

Mike,

 

I couldn't agree more, what started out as a simple enquiry has turned into hopefully, a valuable resource.

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While searching through a back-up drive for something completely different earlier this evening I came across a PDF of the November 1981 issue of Aerei Modellismo which has a lengthy article in Italian of which I do not understand more than a few words from watching Montalbano on TV but there was a colour guide for the sideviews in various patterns and shades of grey which listed three 'French' colours and gave Humbrol Authentic colour references for these.

 

My translation is through Google Translate and the paint conversions are from the IPMS Stockholm Charts which lists the closest FS comparison and there also seems to be a transposition of two of the Humbrol reference numbers in the article of which one is incomplete so plenty of scope to be wrong but this seems to be what it was saying -

 

Verde Scuro Camouflage Francese ( French Camouflage Dark Green)  Humbrol HF6 now Humbrol 98 Matt Chocolate (FS30099) .

 

HOWEVER here is where the paint reference might have been transposed because

 

Tan Camouflage Francese ( French Camouflage Tan) Humbrol H14 but the only Authentic numbered 14 that might be relevant is HG14 Olivgrun RLM80 now Humbrol 86 Matt Light Olive (FS34151).

 

Verde Chiaro Camouflage Francese (French Camouflage Clear? Green) Humbrol HD1 now Humbrol 78 Matt Cockpit Green (FS34171).

 

The grey pattern on the undersides of the drawings seemed to be the same for French/USAF/Turkish aircraft.

Edited by Des
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14 hours ago, Des said:

While searching through a back-up drive for something completely different earlier this evening I came across a PDF of the November 1981 issue of Aerei Modellismo which has a lengthy article in Italian of which I do not understand more than a few words from watching Montalbano on TV but there was a colour guide for the sideviews in various patterns and shades of grey which listed three 'French' colours and gave Humbrol Authentic colour references for these.

 

My translation is through Google Translate and the paint conversions are from the IPMS Stockholm Charts which lists the closest FS comparison and there also seems to be a transposition of two of the Humbrol reference numbers in the article of which one is incomplete so plenty of scope to be wrong but this seems to be what it was saying -

 

Verde Scuro Camouflage Francese ( French Camouflage Dark Green)  Humbrol HF6 now Humbrol 98 Matt Chocolate (FS30099) .

 

HOWEVER here is where the paint reference might have been transposed because

 

Tan Camouflage Francese ( French Camouflage Tan) Humbrol H14 but the only Authentic numbered 14 that might be relevant is HG14 Olivgrun RLM80 now Humbrol 86 Matt Light Olive (FS34151).

 

Verde Chiaro Camouflage Francese (French Camouflage Clear? Green) Humbrol HD1 now Humbrol 78 Matt Cockpit Green (FS34171).

 

The grey pattern on the undersides of the drawings seemed to be the same for French/USAF/Turkish aircraft.

 

Des, sometime I can't understand part of Montalbano dialogues myself....their Italian is not really that perfect... 🤣

It's a great series though, I was a bit surprised to see how popular it was in the UK but then really it's a quality product

 

Having the same magazine, I checked their references and I believe that they don't recommend Humbrol H14 but rather Humbrol HI4 from the old Authentic line. HI4 was the colour meant to reproduce the wartime Italian Nocciola Chiaro, that is often quoted as similar to FS 30219, so would make perfect sense for the F-100 (the French tan in pictures is not really that different from the US paint).

Overall the suggestion HF6 is maybe not too bad, as really the darker green in pictures looks almost brown. HD1 for the lighter green on the other hand is IMHO too green and not olive enough, again compared to pictures.

The suggestion for the lower surfaces is IMHO FS 35622, a colour well known for having been used on Israeli aircraft for quite a long time. Not sure it's really the best suggestion here, IMHO 35622 is too light and not enough grey

Aerei Modellismo was back then the only real Italian modelling magazine and was great, but most of their colour references were approximate and based on observation of pictures rather than the study of official documents.

Edited by Giorgio N
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Ok, I must be a bit tired lately... I had forgotten that I have a Carpena sheet in the stash that include a French F-100...

here is what the sheet says,where I've combined the English text with part of the French text to add more complete information.

 

Pale Yellow Sand: Celomer 2345/4080/3251. Closest FS 20222 but less yellow. Humbrol 93 exact match

Dark Green Sand: Celomer 4080/5054. Closest FS 24201, a little darker. Humbrol 179 exact match

Brown Grey: Celomer 4080/2741. Closest FS 24091, close match. Humbrol 98 exact match

Gray Blue: Celomer 4080/6107. Closest FS 26329, exact to very close match. Humbrol from 65 to 87 with white added

 

The sheet then comments: "These colours are given for a newly painted aircraft. It is superfluous to add that these colours, when seen in Djibouti, would have already faded. French camouflaged F-100s never carried FS colours but rather Celomer colours were applied. In particular, only one green was carried, the darker green was in reality a brown-grey. By sheer luck Humbrol paints offer nearly or exact matches.

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Thanks for that last info Giorgio, I'd forgotten that I too have that sheet, & then I went & bought the Tamiya/Italeri F-100D kit with those markings too. Hmmm, I wonder what they have to say about it? :)

XF-27, 52, 57, 65, not really seeing those. 

This is the colour call for the Italeri kit the Tamiya was derived from. 

Steve.

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4 hours ago, PhantomBigStu said:

Seems my model was well off reality,

Well until we started this I don't think many of us were any the wiser...

4 hours ago, PhantomBigStu said:

still looks ok,

...well, that's all that matters surely?

4 hours ago, PhantomBigStu said:

one day I shall make a more accurate go of it

That's the spirit!

4 hours ago, PhantomBigStu said:

thanks again for the stellar work

You're welcome, I've actually quite enjoyed the exercise, my only wish is that each thread I contribute to doesn't cost me €35 plus postage!

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13 hours ago, PhantomBigStu said:

Seems my model was well off reality, still looks ok, one day I shall make a more accurate go of it, thanks again for the stellar work 

I think you're being a bit hard on yourself Stu, the real aircraft seemed to have displayed a huge variation in fading & weathering so much that it is almost impossible to totally accurately model any one of them & to that end, I feel what you have done is a decent representation of the way they may have appeared earlier in their careers. To my mind, it is hard to achieve much more than that. It looks darn nice in the Sharkmouth gallery.

Steve.

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