RAF dark green query

[Timbo88]

Hi all, hope this is posted in right place.

 

I am currently repainting an old Italeri RAF Tornado GR1 in the wrap round dark green/dark sea grey scheme. I have for many years been using Humbrol 79 for the grey and 108 for the green. Maybe not the best matches but they work for me and give consistencey across my cold war model collection.

Does anyone have a good match for 108, as I noticed with horror that my final tin is on its last legs and this colour was discontinued ages ago. Am ideally looking for an enamel equivalent.

 

Thanks

[stever219]

Humbrol 163 for Dark Green, 164 for Dark Sea Grey.

[Black Knight]

Wot he says.

Humbrol 116 is the same as 163 only 116 is matt and 163 is semi-gloss/semi-matt

[Timbo88]

Thanks for the prompt replies chaps, much appreciated.

 

4 minutes ago, Black Knight said:

Wot he says.

Humbrol 116 is the same as 163 only 116 is matt and 163 is semi-gloss/semi-matt

116 sounds good to me, as I prefer using matt enamels, then going over with Klear.

Shame 108 was discontinued years ago, as it was a great colour (and lovely pigment consistencey) in my eyes anyway, plus of course it was great for WW1 US soldier figures, it's intended purpose I believe.

[Graham Boak]

It is fair to add that although 116/163 are good matches for RAF Dark Green, they may not be good matches for 108, so you may have to reconsider your call for consistency across your collection.

Edited July 14, 2019 by Graham Boak

[Dave Fleming]

108 was really good for a greener PC10.

[Antti_K]

I've used Hu 108 as well. Some 25+ years ago a Buccaneer from 208 Squadron visited Finland and I thought that Hu 108 was just the paint to use for any RAF subject as it matched the weathered Dark Green of that Buccaneer. It (Hu 108) looks good also when you look at photos from 1980s or early 1990s.

 

A couple of years ago I finished an Airfix Javelin and used Hu 75 for Dark Green as it was the best match for WWII dark green (and yes; I know that those two greens are not the same). Here is how it looks:

 

 

Kind Regards,

Antti

[Timbo88]

Great to see that I'm not the only one to use Hu108 for RAF dark green. I wonder why it was discontinued?

Guess what.....I found another unopened tin of 108 in my shoe box of old paints, I'm happy for another year at least!!!

[Antti_K]

Oh I wish I had a magic box like that as well😉 My last tin ran out a couple of years ago. It is indeed sad that the paint was discontinued as it was useful for many different subjects. I used it for late WWII German aircraft, Cold War Swedish jets,...

 

Same goes by the way for the pale blue (Hu 121)

 

Cheers,

Antti

[Dave Fleming]

On 7/15/2019 at 11:31 AM, Antti_K said:

 

 

A couple of years ago I finished an Airfix Javelin and used Hu 75 for Dark Green as it was the best match for WWII dark green (and yes; I know that those two greens are not the same). Here is how it looks:

 

 

Kind Regards,

Antti

 

That looks good - technically it should be the same colour, although formulations and  surface smoothness affect how it's perceived

[Fernando]

Hi, everyone,

 

RAF Dark Green BS241 is aproximately FS34083. Humbrol 108 ("RFC Green", as Mr. Fleming said, a great "green" PC10) is more akin WW2 US Dark Olive Drab n°41 (as recomended by Bob Archer) It SHOULD look browner. Possibly something like FS34079 should look like faded DG. 

 

That said, I have seen in this very site some Bucc photos where the green was very brownish.

 

Fernando

[Antti_K]

Hello all,

 

I made some colour comparisons this summer. One pair is exceptionally interesting: a Bell P-39Q Airacobra and a Folland Gnat. Both aircraft are in museums here in Finland and they both carry original camouflage paint. Take a look at the results:

 

- Olive Drab (Airacobra), NCS S7005-G80Y

- British Dark Green (Gnat), NCS S7005-G80Y

 

Both paints are of course well weathered. And they both are an exact match for the very same NCS sample and almost an exact match for Hu 108 which is maybe a step darker.

 

Cheers,

Antti

Edited October 31, 2019 by Antti_K

[Graham Boak]

Judging from the examples kept in the open air in British aircraft museums, RAF Dark Green of the 50s and 60s weathered to a darkish chocolate brown, so the paint on the Gnat could well have passed through several shades of olive drabs on its way.  Certainly the official hues of RAF Dark Green and USAAF Olive Drab 42 were considerably different, with Dark Olive Drab being different again.  There were notoriously many different shades of Olive Drab in practice, especially it seems in 1941/42.  I suspect the result was just a coincidence caused by differential fading, and the originals may have been different.  Or perhaps Bell was using one of the greener ODs on that particular aircraft.

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

FS34083 is no closer a match than FS34079. Dark Green lies between the two. Indeed some model paint companies sell attractive boxed sets of RAF WWII colours which are faithfully matched to FS34079 etc.

 

I was interested in @antti's NCS1950 observations of aged paint though. Actually I was pleased to see someone using an actual colour system for discussion rather than the Fruit Salad collection of US government's 650 chips including duplicates in different sheens.

 

 

Depending on pigments used it seems plausible.

[Antti_K]

Hello all.

 

Graham, there is at least one Gnat at the air force museum at Tikkakoski that has been sitting on top of a pole for a few decades now. Dark Sea Grey has faded into very light blue and Dark Green looks indeed brownish. The example I was studying has been kept indoors and all surfaces are still semi gloss. It seems that Dark Sea Grey has faded more; especially around the fuselage spine. My only personal observation of "olive" or "drab" Dark Green is on the Buccaneer of No. 208 Squadron that visited Finnish Air Force Academy in 1991 (or 1992) and I didn't carry any colour chart with me back then. The serial was XX89... Unfortunately I can't give more detailed information about the colours used on the Airacobra. The fuselage and wings come from two different aircraft but the Olive Drab gave same NCS match both on fuselage and wings.

 

Jamie, I was just looking for my copy of British camouflage colours to make a similar picture you just posted...😉 It is really a shame that very few modellers use the NCS system as it gives nearly 2000 shades. Now that you have both colour charts at hand, here are the mayches for Dark Sea Grey:

 

NCS S6005-R90B

NCS S4005-R90B

 

Then there were a port wing and rear fuselage of a MiG-3 at the museum, the original Russian "bright green" and "light blue" in good condition...

 

Cheers,

Antti

[Seawinder]

On 7/15/2019 at 6:31 AM, Antti_K said:

I've used Hu 108 as well. Some 25+ years ago a Buccaneer from 208 Squadron visited Finland and I thought that Hu 108 was just the paint to use for any RAF subject as it matched the weathered Dark Green of that Buccaneer. It (Hu 108) looks good also when you look at photos from 1980s or early 1990s.

 

A couple of years ago I finished an Airfix Javelin and used Hu 75 for Dark Green as it was the best match for WWII dark green (and yes; I know that those two greens are not the same). Here is how it looks:

 

 

Kind Regards,

Antti

Hi Antti. Two questions: The color chip directly below Dark Green: is it Ocean Grey? What is the source of the chips, and is it (still) available for purchase?

Thanks, Pip

[Troy Smith]

4 minutes ago, Seawinder said:

Hi Antti. Two questions: The color chip directly below Dark Green: is it Ocean Grey? What is the source of the chips, and is it (still) available for purchase?

Thanks, Pip

Hi Pip

this is the oft mentioned paint chip chart, here's a scan.

 

 

it is from  RAF Museum Series, British Aviation Colours of World War Two,

see https://www.amazon.com/British-aviation-colours-World-War/dp/0853682712

for example

The reason people want the book is the colour chips,  and the book can be pricey used. 

here's a thread on the book.

HTH

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

If you attend airshows etc (Flying Legends typically has the right vendors) then second hand book sellers will often reveal a copy for a far less Amazonian price.

[NPL]

But sometimes you have to pay in order to get what you want. Thus I didn't find the price asked for, £40 as too expensive. If you really want something, life is too short to give up an offer and to wait for another.

 

[John R]

As the saying goes

"It's life's economies you regret, not the extravagances"