RAF & Luftwaffe Codes & Insignia

[mongo]

Greets All;

 

I am collecting information for a somewhat ambitious modeling project and have encountered questions I cannot answer from my resources.  Therefore I come here to the Great Source of Knowledge and Truth...

 

Since the specific aircraft I want to model are not represented in aftermarket (or kit) decals I have to cobble together my own collection of markings.  I have gone to my collection of aftermarket decals and found a wide variety of sizes of insignia and code letters; those sources only raise more questions... 😕

Was there a "standard" size for RAF letter-codes?  Specifically, I am inquiring about Hurricanes in the Jun 40 to Sep 41 time frame and the transition from the dark earth/dk green/sky schemes to the dk green/dk sea gray/med sea gray schemes.  Same question for Spitfires; was there a "standard" size for code letters after the Aug 41 paint scheme transition?

Also, I have the same question regarding Luftwaffe aircraft.  I have some references that show specifications for insignia size that are type-specific as well as unit code lettering.  Specifically, I'm doing a Do 17E-2 and Ju 87B-1 in Sep 39.  Can anyone offer info stating specific insignia size and specifications for code letter sizes for those type aircraft?

 

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.

 

Mongo

Cincinnati, 'Mer'ka

[Troy Smith]

3 hours ago, mongo said:

Was there a "standard" size for RAF letter-codes?  Specifically, I am inquiring about Hurricanes in the Jun 40 to Sep 41 time frame and the transition from the dark earth/dk green/sky schemes to the dk green/dk sea gray/med sea gray schemes.  Same question for Spitfires; was there a "standard" size for code letters after the Aug 41 paint scheme transition?

No.  

RAF codes are the wild card in RAF markings,  the sheer diversity is greatly underappreciated.  There also is not a 'font' 

By the time you ask about, they tend to be more uniform, and there are commoner sizes,  but really you need a photo. 

Also, the code running order was not fixed.

see the link in here

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234946165-raf-squadron-code-placementsan-interesting-article/

 

this one

http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/2/p/137680/1433121.aspx#1433121

sadly the photos have gone, but the notes are worth reading.

 

Best thing is to search for and/or ask here for specific detail of your chosen subject.

[Graham Boak]

For Dark Sea Gray read Ocean Grey.

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Hello Mongo.... If I may piggyback i have a similar question ? Does anyone other than kits-world make decal sheets of generic Luftwaffe numbers, chevrons, and or unit insignia ? In both 1/72 or 1/48 scales ? Also does AZ make Bf-109F's in 1/72 ? 

 

Dennis

[Graham Boak]

AZ do 1/72 Bf109Fs, as a recent tooling.

 

Troy is right that RAF codes were not completely standardised, but they weren't anarchic either as far as sizes go.  I suggest that you look for the Ducimus Camouflage and Markings booklet on the Hurricane, which is usually available fairly cheaply, or can be downloaded as a pdf from pirate sites.  You will probably find a link for it in one of Troy's earlier posting on Hurricanes - good hunting.

[72modeler]

4 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Hello Mongo.... If I may piggyback i have a similar question ? Does anyone other than kits-world make decal sheets of generic Luftwaffe numbers, chevrons, and or unit insignia ? In both 1/72 or 1/48 scales ? Also does AZ make Bf-109F's in 1/72 ? 

 

Dennis

Dennis,

 

Most of the old Esci decal sheets that cover a specific Luftwaffe type have a large selection of squadron and unit badges at the bottom- although they are all OOP, you can find them online and at swap meets/trade tabels at very reasonable prices. Then there are these, from my collection-all in 1/72:

Fantasy Printshop EP-905 and -903: Luftwaffe factory codes

FCM decals 72-26 asstd. Luftwaffe squadron/unit badges

Superscale 72-4: Luftwaffe crosses, chevrons, kill markings

                  72-9  Luftwaffe unit badges

                  72-12 Luftwaffe fighter codes, red, yellow, white with black outlines

                  72-15 Luftwaffe fighter codes, black with red, white. yellow outlines

                  72-16 Luftwaffe fighter unit badges

                  72-89 Modern W. German AF black codes with white outline

                  72-604, -605 Luftwaffe fighter spinner spirals, walkways, stenciling

Tally-Ho    72014: Luftwaffe chevrons

                  72-043 Luftwaffe codes, 4mm through 14mm

There are undoubtedly others- these are just the ones I have. Most are most likely OOP, but at least you have the stock numbers to look for. Crosses and swastikas are available in several styles and from several decal producers. There are also German prop logos in 1/72 scale, but I can't recall the maker- maybe Kora? I can't help with the other scales, as I don't have any German kits other than 1/72 ones. Hope this helps. IIRC, the "new" Superscale is re-printing many of the earlier sheets, but I have no clue as to which ones or the cost.

Mike

 

Edited July 15, 2019 by 72modeler
corrected spelling

[Troy Smith]

2 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

Troy is right that RAF codes were not completely standardised, but they weren't anarchic either as far as sizes go. 

Not anarchic, but certainly very varied, it's not just the size, but 'font' and even stroke thickness, usually 6 inch though.

Quote

 

I suggest that you look for the Ducimus Camouflage and Markings booklet on the Hurricane, which is usually available fairly cheaply, or can be downloaded as a pdf from pirate sites.  You will probably find a link for it in one of Troy's earlier posting on Hurricanes - good hunting.

scans here

https://boxartden.com/reference/gallery/index.php/Modeling-References/Camoflage-Markings/03-Hawker-Hurricane

his gives a good idea of the some of the variations...

 

In the link, it was stated that official size was 48 inch,  but this is too big to fit on a Hurricane, let alone, Spitfire fuselage.

Note the comment that 40 inch codes of 32 Sq (GZ-B) are the largest used on Hurricanes,  here's the 40 inch

 

But note that only 2 month before, 32 Sq used a smaller code size

 

which is why i say to ask about a specific plane,   as the devil is in the detail on this...

[JackG]

There was also a SAM Publication for the Hurricane (Modellers Datafile no.2) that gave some general code height sizes:

- post Munich 1938 = 38"

- Sept. '39 to may '40 = 27"

- June 6th and after = 30"

 

As mentioned, is best to check period photos for the particular squadron/aircraft.  If you have a decent side profile, compare the letter height to the roundel size since the national marking tended to more closely follow the set standard for the period.

 

----------------------------------------------

 

For the Luftwaffe, I've not found anything about sizes, just dimensional ratios:

 

 

https://warbirdcolors.com/reference-materials/

http://artisanmodeler.blogspot.com/search/label/Luftwaffe labels

 

I've seen mention of a book  (Luftwaffe Colours 1935-1945 by Ullmann) that gives specific sizes based on aircraft types.  I wonder if that was the source for these decals;

http://www.mn-modelar.com/armycast-v7338.html

 

 

regards,

Jack

[2Step]

I am new to the forum, so I am not sure what the policy on copyrights is here ....

(The following were library books and I took pictures of the pages for my own use 😰)

 

I found some information on the German standards in the following books:

 

Birth of the Luftwaffe Fighter Force 1933 -1936 (not sure of the title of the book, might just be the chapter)

 

Luftwaffe Camouflage and Markings, Appendix 1 Balkenkreuz and Hakenkreuz

 

 

[malpaso]

Bear in mind that RAF codes were generally painted at squadron level, so although the size was generally set, the style could vary somewhat in shape and detail depending on the skills and knowledge of the painter.  For example there is a photo of JEJ in JEJ where tiny serifs are visible on the square block-lettering - this suggests a properly trained sign-writer painted the codes, the tiny serifs are to stop the illusion of rounded off corners.  Such skills were presumably fairly widespread as every town needed signwriters for shop fronts, notices, van and lorry sides back in the day.

[Mike Starmer]

Fantasy printshop make a huge range of sizes of German letters in the basic colours and fighter numbers too.  The German codes height were proportional to the cross and Fantasy have done there homework here, there is a letter and numeral for smallest to largest cross size.