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1980's Italian AF Tornado IDS in 1:48


Filler

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Hi everyone. I've always liked the Tornado and it has sported some great schemes of the years for the various air arm it's served. It's a tough call to pick a favourite but, I do think that the Italian scheme of the 80's was quite wonderful. The thing is, whilst the choice and availability of Tornado IDS kits is excellent and aftermarket decals are quite plentiful, it does seem to be difficult to end up with a nice Italian example from the 80's early 90's.

 

As far as I can make out, there is one out of box option; the Heller kit with the Marineflieger Tornado on the box. However, that Airfix kit isn't really the best kit option and I suspect that given its age that the decals might be a bit past their best (and were Heller decals ever good to start with?) After that, I can't find any aftermarket options to do an Italian camo IDS.

 

And in addition to kit/decal issues, I've also found that good reference material for Italian Tornados of this era is very difficult to find too. Even trawling Flickr and the like they have clearly been much less seen and photographed than RAF or German examples.

 

Any suggestions or advice would be interesting and appreciated. Thanks.

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Guess that late '80s schemes means green/grey over silver with small white outline codes, right ? Or are you interested in the slightly later scheme with grey codes ?

In the first case the best source for decals would Tauromodel, who covered almost all variants... the problem is that their decal sheets don't cover full aircraft, they have sheets with the roundels, sheets with the codes and sheets with the stencils and sheets with the insignia... so for a single aircraft you may need 3 or 4 sheets. You'll be left with plenty of decals for other subjects but it's not really a very efficient way to build a model. In any case, the best place to look for Tauro decals is Pronto Model in Italy. They deliver worldwide so no problem there and the website has pages in English.

An alternative is the 36 Stormo option included in the Mark 1 book and decal sheet.

 

If you want the later scheme, still in NATO camo but with low vis codes and roundels, Tauromodel has a sheet (48/567) that covers them, this time without having to buy 4 sheets...

Alternatively there's Mission Marks decal sheet 48003:

http://www.missionmarkdecals.com/decals/48003.html

This is already sized for the Revell kit, that is likely the one you'll use (why bother with the older Italeri or the more expensive Hobbyboss ?)

 

If kit decals are an option, I'm pretty sure that there were boxings of the Italeri kits in both schemes, can't remember which ones though.

 


 

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5 hours ago, Filler said:

Hi everyone. I've always liked the Tornado and it has sported some great schemes of the years for the various air arm it's served. It's a tough call to pick a favourite but, I do think that the Italian scheme of the 80's was quite wonderful. The thing is, whilst the choice and availability of Tornado IDS kits is excellent and aftermarket decals are quite plentiful, it does seem to be difficult to end up with a nice Italian example from the 80's early 90's.

 

As far as I can make out, there is one out of box option; the Heller kit with the Marineflieger Tornado on the box. However, that Airfix kit isn't really the best kit option and I suspect that given its age that the decals might be a bit past their best (and were Heller decals ever good to start with?) After that, I can't find any aftermarket options to do an Italian camo IDS.

 

And in addition to kit/decal issues, I've also found that good reference material for Italian Tornados of this era is very difficult to find too. Even trawling Flickr and the like they have clearly been much less seen and photographed than RAF or German examples.

 

Any suggestions or advice would be interesting and appreciated. Thanks.

If you fancy something a bit more exotic, this is the first Italian production aircraft

spacer.png

Then these two

spacer.png

spacer.png

John

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I would love to see Revell (or Eduard?) reissue their IDS with some vanilla ‘retro’ schemes for German and Italian aircraft...

 

I know they are convinced those gaudy German special paints sell more to the general public, but isn’t it time for something for the real enthusiasts? 😀

 

I live in hope...

 

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Thanks for the replies everyone. @canberra kid, that first production scheme is brilliant. They should have kept the yellow rings. @guillaume320, I agree wholeheartedly about getting some standard paint schemes in the kits. I really don't understand why these garish paint schemes are so popular. When you look at the kits issued by Italeri and Revell over the years, between schemes that look like something from Formula 1 and the Gulf War 1 lo-vis stuff there haven't been many issues with standard schemes.

 

@Giorgio N, sorry I should have been a bit clearer but you are quite right. My preference is for the green/grey over silver scheme with larger white codes like this one I found a very good photo of on Flickr or this not so good photo of one that I took myself at Woodford airshow in 1995 (I didn't realise the scheme survived as late as that).

25310767777_a3657c0781_c.jpg

 

So now I know of some sources of the decals for this scheme, I have a further question related to it and it applies to German aircraft of this era too. The Heller kits decals include red stripes that go on the top side of the aircraft along the wings and intakes etc. I've seen Hahen decals for Marineflieger jets in the grey/white scheme (as in my my avatar) and they include yellow stripes for the same purpose. However, in pictures I just can't see these prominent red or yellow lines of the jets. But also as I mentioned before, shots of these Italian jets are not common, so references are limited. Does anyone know a little more about these line markings?

 

Must also say, I love this RSV scheme too, as captured by myself at Yeovilton back in 1994. A lighter grey and smaller codes. Lovely aircraft.

26416088868_de25f1bd0f_c.jpg

 

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Italian aircraft in the "old" scheme sure had red lines above the wings and fuselage. If you check the Mission Mark decals instructions in the link I posted you'll see how they were. Tauromodel also has a sheet of stencils only for hi-vis Tornadoes with these red lines, that however are IMHO a bit too wide.

These lines were quite narrow, so they are not easy to see,

Regarding the lack of references on Italian Tornados, the problem is that most of the books you have access will likely come from UK publishers or be in English language, and as such will give much more importance to the RAF use of the machine. In most books I have the coverage is roughly 70% RAF, 20% Germany and 10% Italy... that would make sense if the RAF operated a similar percentage of aircraft while in reality Germany operated around 100 more than the UK (ADV excluded). In the end English speaking readers will most likely be interested in RAF use, and this is what the publishers give them, even if this means giving the impression that any use outside the UK is just a small, almost negligible chapter in the Tornado career.

Best way to find references on Italian machines is therefore to look for books dedicated specifically to these, for example the book published in the Italian Aviation Series, or the book published by IBN on the AMX and Tornado in Italian service.

In any case the older scheme is likely to be less covered than the later overall grey scheme for a number of reasons. One is that the grey scheme has now been in service for longer. Another is that when the old camouflage was in use, we didn't have the Internet as we have today and there was much less sharing of information compared to these days. Not that it's impossible to find walkarounds of these aircraft, but they will be in magazines from the '80s and early '90s, particularly in Italian publications, that may not be very easy to find.

Edited by Giorgio N
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Thanks Giorgio. You are certainly correct about why I'm finding good references hard to find. Most shots I have found are like mine above and are taken at airshows of aircraft usually on static, so topsides are especially rare.

 

The Mission Mark decals look brilliant but also appear very hard to find now. I shall keep looking out for them. One other thing I did notice is that they are not simply straight red lines, which means painting them is not really an option.

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19 hours ago, Filler said:

Thanks Giorgio. You are certainly correct about why I'm finding good references hard to find. Most shots I have found are like mine above and are taken at airshows of aircraft usually on static, so topsides are especially rare.

 

The Mission Mark decals look brilliant but also appear very hard to find now. I shall keep looking out for them. One other thing I did notice is that they are not simply straight red lines, which means painting them is not really an option.

The Mission Mark decals set linked by Giorgio appears to be available directly from Mission Mark.  The Add to Cart button appears to be active.

http://www.missionmarkdecals.com/decals.html

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Thank you for pointing that out @mstorin. I didn't look at their site properly and just clicked on 'Where to buy' and saw a UK retailer that didn't have stock.

 

I have dropped them an email first though as it looks as if this was their third decal set and they haven't produced anything since 2015, so seemed prudent to check that the site/shop is still active before purchasing anything. Fingers crossed as they look absolutely terrific decals.

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  • 1 month later...

Well, I tried finding the Mission Marks decals and have drawn a blank. Basically they appear to have ceased to exist as a business and I tried direct with Mission Marks but received no reply and I tried Flightdecs in the US who showed stock but again received no reply. So I guess they are out of business too.

 

So in the end I have resorted to buying a Heller kit that includes the Italian decals including the stencils and 'red wing lines'. They don't look too great though and might be an ill fit for either the Revell or possibly Italeri kits I plan building.

 

But hey, when there's no other option then what can you do? So Heller decals on someone else's kit is what I will try but my next query is colours. I'm still committed to Mr Hobby Aqueous as I have tons of it and need to find out what colours I need. I have seen that there is a 1/72 Hasegawa boxing with an Italian jet of the correct vintage on the box lid and was now hoping someone might have said kit and be able to share the Mr Hobby colour refs.

 

 

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Sorry to hear that you couldn't find the decals !

Regarding colours, these were the then standard Italian Air Force camouflage colours; Verde Scuro Opaco 28 (matt dark green), equivalent to FS 34086, and Grigio Mare Scuro 27 (matt dark sea grey), equivalent to FS 36132.... but later documents mentioned FS 36152 for this.

Now without entering in discussions on the history of these colours and the relevant air force documentation (Table AA-M-P100 in subsequent revisions, the latest being h), what matters is;

The dark green is browner and greyer than the typical RAF Dark Green. If you are familiar with the Lifecolor range they offer this colour as UA106. Not sure of any Mr.Hobby equivalent.

The grey is not dissimilar from RAF Dark Sea Grey, maybe only slightly lighter.

Lower surfaces are simpler: Alluminio Opaco 26 (matt aluminum), for which you can use any flat aluminum/silver paint. Generally I add a bit of grey to a silver paint to get the right finish.

 

Personally I use the Lifecolor paints, but my painting "procedure" sees the use of a base with lighter colours and then I add layers of the final colours on top. IMHO this approach works well but if you want to use just the final ones the best way to find a good Mr.Hobby match is to start from the FS numbers.

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Excellent, thanks for your help and advice Giorgio. I really like your painting procedure. I've just learnt a hard lesson with a Tornado ADV where I used black primer and went in with the final colours only to discover that I can barely detect any difference between the two greys on the model. Go light and work up make a lot of sense and maybe using black primer is a bit of an error.

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I wouldn't say that using a black primer is an error, they are both valid techniques. As often happens in the hobby each modeller has better results with one technique because this is better suited to him, I started experimenting with adding darker layers over a light background and was happy with it, while I never did well when applying lighter coats over a dark background. If you think my approach could work well for you I suggest trying and see how you do. If this technique work better for you, then follow it. In the end it's the result that matters :)

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2 hours ago, Filler said:

 I have seen that there is a 1/72 Hasegawa boxing with an Italian jet of the correct vintage on the box lid and was now hoping someone might have said kit and be able to share the Mr Hobby colour refs.

 

 

Your wish is my command sire....

 

The colours in the Hasegawa instructions are for Gunze Sangyo Aqueous Hobby Color and for Mr Color respectively. (kit is 1989)

Silver H8/8 

Dark Sea Grey H331/331 (down as an equivalent for BS381C/638)

Dark Green H330/330 (down as equivalent for BS381C/641)

 

That's what Hasegawa says, but I would let Giorgio's advice be the guide.

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Brilliant, thanks VV. I will certainly follow Giorgio's advice as following Hasegawa's colours for the the Tornado F.3 appears to have not worked out brilliantly. But their colours are definitely a good starting point. I guess I need to test spray and if necessary refine them before spraying the whole aircraft in future.

 

In regard of decals, I tried FlightDecs just once more in case they'd replied and it had gone unnoticed into the junk folder and I have had a reply. So I'm pleased to say that FlightDecs are still alive and kicking. And hopefully I will in due course receive the last set of Mission Mark Italian Tornado decals that they have.

 

Not turned out too bad in the end hey?! Just need to decide whether to keep the Heller kit and build it as test bed for painting or whether to try and sell it on and recoup a few quid.

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On 7/11/2019 at 3:10 PM, canberra kid said:

If you fancy something a bit more exotic, this is the first Italian production aircraft

spacer.png

Then these two

spacer.png

spacer.png

John

The first picture actually is the first ECR Tornado and not representative of the early production scheme.

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