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Spitfire Mk IXc Yellow Leading Edge Decals - Help needed please!


Oberleutnant

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8 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Thats two coats Tamiya Yellow with Isopropyl alcohol for thinner. 

Morning.

 

Is that Tamiya yellow the acrylic type as per below link?

 

https://www.wonderlandmodels.com/products/tamiya-mini-xf-03-flat-yellow/?exchange_rate=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIjdCrre-44wIVCJ7VCh3rSAAcEAkYASABEgIqF_D_BwE

 

That Isopropyl you reckon will be okay on top of existing water based acrylics that have been varnished? The stuff below ok?

 

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/products/0567890/?grossPrice=Y&cm_mmc=UK-PLA-DS3A-_-google-_-PLA_UK_EN_Facilities_Cleaning_And_Maintenance-_-Electronics_Cleaners_And_Protective_Coatings|Precision_Cleaners_And_Degreasers-_-PRODUCT_GROUP&matchtype=&pla-417999727806&s_kwcid=AL!7457!3!243845746030!!!g!417999727806!&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIvvHDkO-44wIVhrTtCh32oA_7EAQYBSABEgIccPD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

You put a base coat of something first? Like white or tan?

 

 

1 hour ago, Charlie Hugo said:

The Tamiya Spitfire MkV kit had the yellow leading edge as a decal. Maybe someone here has that unused

I've already kindly been sent one but they don';t match the gun port lcoations unfortunately.

 

I could probably bodge it by cutting them up and painting any gaps but it could look doo-doo so looking at painting option.

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6 hours ago, Chuck1945 said:

Use narrow strips of tape. When I mask to paint the yellow leading edge I’ll cut a strip of tape approx 1/4” (or less) wide. That is narrow enough to follow the curve on a Spitfire wing. I spray mine but if you are using a brush and have good control you may be able to use an even narrower piece of tape, otherwise if you are worried about overflow, add an additional strip of tape. It isn’t hard to eyeball the exposed wing edge to ensure both wings will have similar yellow leading edges. You can also wrap tape around the leading edges to mark the beginning and end of the stripes.

Thanks for the tip.

 

I just remembered I have a cheap 1/72 spitfire which I've already used as a test bed to practice brush painting RAF camo so I think I'll have a practice run painting the yellow just to get a general feel albeit on a smaller scale.

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2 hours ago, Oberleutnant said:

Good morning Yes that is the correct paint. 

2 hours ago, Oberleutnant said:

That Isopropyl you reckon will be okay on top of existing water based acrylics that have been varnished?

I have a layer of clear coat (future) between the camouflage colors and the yellow on this kit.

XrQebFy.jpg

Only because i forgot to paint the yellow stripes before the clear. I have done it straight onto the colors before. I only paint with Tamiya, Vallejo, Ammo by mig, & Xtracrylix paints. This is that same Tamiya yellow brushed onto vallejo Dark earth & Xtracrylix Light slate grey.

yFs7dxW.jpg

 

lDLm9lH.jpg

No clear coat was used in between the camouflage and yellow. ⬆️ Here its been brushed on over Ammo by mig olive green that has the future in between. U5T4zBG.jpg

 

GCKaAW2.jpg

Only because i realized to late that there wasn't a decal for the Yellow stripe until after i gloss coated it. 

2 hours ago, Oberleutnant said:

That is close to what i use. I use 50% or 70% Isopropyl alcohol for medicinal use from a pharmacy or chemist's shop. The isopropyl you linked to is 99% pure an industrial cleaner which might be too strong. Yes I do use a white base. However Tan will also work depending on the tone of yellow you are looking for.

         Now as for matching the curves of the leading edge there are a couple of tricks you can use. Does your spitfire have the landing gear on yet ? If no you can place tape on a clean surface like a cutting mat or table. Then place the wing over it and trace the edge using a pencil. If the gear are on then make a photocopy of the decal instruction sheets outline of the wing. Using that you can cut a template out to match the curve ? Another option is if you have 2nd unbuilt kit. You can use the wings to trace the leading edge curves. Last when making the tape length i cut it long enough to extend past the wing tip. Then i can match both top and bottom at the tip. The inner end closer to the fuselage you can match by finding a specific point and placing tape around the front edge at the same spot. Then measure back and mark a point about 1.5 or 2mm's, or wherever you want the rear edge of the yellow to be. This should get the two pieces of tape to be even. Also this way the top and bottom should be the same size. Sorry this is a long drawn out description. 

      Finally what i do is dry brush very lightly a coat of white to seal the edge of the tape and paint. Paint forward towards the front of the plane. Always start on top of the tape for all stages of the painting. This will reduce the likelihood of leaks even further. Wait for a little while maybe 15 minutes for it to start drying and hardening up. Then follow it with a light coat of the yellow paint. Repeat that process as necessary until you're happy with the results. When you're happy and the paint has had a few minutes sitting. Pull the tape up before it has completely dried. This will allow the edge to sink a little reducing the ridge effect. Now by chance there is a stray leak, it should clean up with some water after you pull the tape off. I hope this helps you and it all makes sense

 

Dennis

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6 minutes ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Good morning Yes that is the correct paint. 

I have a layer of clear coat (future) between the camouflage colors and the yellow on this kit.

XrQebFy.jpg

Only because i forgot to paint the yellow stripes before the clear. I have done it straight onto the colors before. I only paint with Tamiya, Vallejo, Ammo by mig, & Xtracrylix paints. This is that same Tamiya yellow brushed onto vallejo Dark earth & Xtracrylix Light slate grey.

yFs7dxW.jpg

 

lDLm9lH.jpg

No clear coat was used in between the camouflage and yellow. ⬆️ Here its been brushed on over Ammo by mig olive green that has the future in between. U5T4zBG.jpg

 

GCKaAW2.jpg

Only because i realized to late that there wasn't a decal for the Yellow stripe until after i gloss coated it. 

That is close to what i use. I use 50% or 70% Isopropyl alcohol for medicinal use from a pharmacy or chemist's shop. The isopropyl you linked to is 99% pure an industrial cleaner which might be too strong. Yes I do use a white base. However Tan will also work depending on the tone of yellow you are looking for.

         Now as for matching the curves of the leading edge there are a couple of tricks you can use. Does your spitfire have the landing gear on yet ? If no you can place tape on a clean surface like a cutting mat or table. Then place the wing over it and trace the edge using a pencil. If the gear are on then make a photocopy of the decal instruction sheets outline of the wing. Using that you can cut a template out to match the curve ? Another option is if you have 2nd unbuilt kit. You can use the wings to trace the leading edge curves. Last when making the tape length i cut it long enough to extend past the wing tip. Then i can match both top and bottom at the tip. The inner end closer to the fuselage you can match by finding a specific point and placing tape around the front edge at the same spot. Then measure back and mark a point about 1.5 or 2mm's, or wherever you want the rear edge of the yellow to be. This should get the two pieces of tape to be even. Also this way the top and bottom should be the same size. Sorry this is a long drawn out description. 

      Finally what i do is dry brush very lightly a coat of white to seal the edge of the tape and paint. Paint forward towards the front of the plane. Always start on top of the tape for all stages of the painting. This will reduce the likelihood of leaks even further. Wait for a little while maybe 15 minutes for it to start drying and hardening up. Then follow it with a light coat of the yellow paint. Repeat that process as necessary until you're happy with the results. When you're happy and the paint has had a few minutes sitting. Pull the tape up before it has completely dried. This will allow the edge to sink a little reducing the ridge effect. Now by chance there is a stray leak, it should clean up with some water after you pull the tape off. I hope this helps you and it all makes sense

 

Dennis

Appreciated Dennis, thank you.

 

Will have a go on my 1/72 plane and see how I can get on!

 

Will also buy the Tamiya yellow too.

 

One more thing please - what is the main benefit if using that iso stuff over say just water for a thinner which is what I use currently?

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3 hours ago, Oberleutnant said:

...

 

One more thing please - what is the main benefit if using that iso stuff over say just water for a thinner which is what I use currently?

Tamiya thinner brand is a water alcohol mixture so using isopropyl alcohol to thin their paints more closely resembles their own thinner. You will probably find you get better results using isopropyl.

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I would say one benefit is Isopropyl evaporates quicker so it helps Tamiya dry quicker i never like the results water gave me when mixed with Tamiya. The paint tended to be grittier so maybe the isopropyl helps break down the pigment better ? I only use it to clean brushes and thin for brush painting all my paints. When i airbrush i use Tamiya thinners for Tamiya paints. Xtracrylix thinner for there paint, and water for Vallejo and Ammo paints. Its a mad scientist approach but it hasnt let me down in 5 years. Before i took my hiatus in 2005 i used exclusive thinners = paints. Tamiya for Tamiya, Gunze for Gunze, and Mineral spirits or Lacquer thinners for enamels. 

 

Dennis

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1 hour ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

I would say one benefit is Isopropyl evaporates quicker so it helps Tamiya dry quicker i never like the results water gave me when mixed with Tamiya. The paint tended to be grittier so maybe the isopropyl helps break down the pigment better ? I only use it to clean brushes and thin for brush painting all my paints. When i airbrush i use Tamiya thinners for Tamiya paints. Xtracrylix thinner for there paint, and water for Vallejo and Ammo paints. Its a mad scientist approach but it hasnt let me down in 5 years. Before i took my hiatus in 2005 i used exclusive thinners = paints. Tamiya for Tamiya, Gunze for Gunze, and Mineral spirits or Lacquer thinners for enamels. 

 

Dennis

Me too. The actual spraying requires little thinner so as much as possible I use the manufacturer’s thinner for airbrushing and clean everything with generic lacquer thinner. As a side note, Gunze’s Mr Color thinner also works quite well to smooth Tamiya putty and doesn’t attack the plastic as regular lacquer thinners might.

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17 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

I would say one benefit is Isopropyl evaporates quicker so it helps Tamiya dry quicker i never like the results water gave me when mixed with Tamiya. The paint tended to be grittier so maybe the isopropyl helps break down the pigment better ? I only use it to clean brushes and thin for brush painting all my paints. When i airbrush i use Tamiya thinners for Tamiya paints. Xtracrylix thinner for there paint, and water for Vallejo and Ammo paints. Its a mad scientist approach but it hasnt let me down in 5 years. Before i took my hiatus in 2005 i used exclusive thinners = paints. Tamiya for Tamiya, Gunze for Gunze, and Mineral spirits or Lacquer thinners for enamels. 

 

Dennis

Morning,

 

I had a go painting with Vallejo yellow on top of my 1/72 Spit and the tape edges look okay but same problems with yellow having multiple coats before making a dent on the colour underneath and looks crusty, dry and not great so I've just bought the Tamiya yellow you mentioned.

 

Is the below Iso thinner okay do you reckon?

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/BENJAMIN-RUBBING-ALCOHOL-ISOPROPYL-ALCOHOL/dp/B008739ULM

 

Thank you.

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8 hours ago, Oberleutnant said:

Is the below Iso thinner okay do you reckon?

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/BENJAMIN-RUBBING-ALCOHOL-ISOPROPYL-ALCOHOL/dp/B008739ULM

Yes that should work its 50%, its a good investment to buy, even if it you don't like it for painting. Its great for first aid purposes as well. 

 

Dennis

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1 hour ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Yes that should work its 50%, its a good investment to buy, even if it you don't like it for painting. Its great for first aid purposes as well. 

 

Dennis

Thanks for your help 👍

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On 7/10/2019 at 9:40 PM, Oberleutnant said:

Hi gents,

 

I'm trying to put the decals on my Revell 1/48 Spitfire MK IXc Spitfire and I've noticed for some reason the decal they've provided for the yellow leading edge wing markings are not long enough (see photos below).

 

I'm trying to get hold of some decals which run the full edge but its proving difficult. Can anyone point me in the right direction please?

 

This painful Revell kit just continues to throw spanners my way. Its too late to consider painting yellow strips as I've already finished painting and applied a varnish ready for the decals.

 

Anyone know why Revell only bothered to supply part of the length? Their instructions show the marking full length.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Getting  a touch frustrated with this kit!

Are you building MK528, the 43 Squadron option? If you are, then I wouldn't be too bothered about the yellow leading edges because they weren't on this aircraft during that timeframe! You can see her in this IWM picture (she's the aircraft on the right):

 

large_000000.jpg?action=e&cat=Photograph

AUSTRIA UNDER ALLIED OCCUPATION. © IWM (CL 2983) IWM Non Commercial License

 

If you zoom right in on the aircraft via the + button option on the full page: https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205207939 you can see there's no yellow stripe on the leading edge (although there is a light area towards the tip which might be overpainted yellow). Note that FT-O (probably MH737) has yellow leading edges with a completely overpainted Sky band and FT-P (probably MJ498) has yellow leading edges and what looks like a small section of the Sky band remaining under the serial number. I've seen other pictures of aircraft on the squadron still with Sky bands post-war! It seems that aircraft used in the Italian campaigns were a real mixed bunch when it came to identfication markings, especially at the end of the war.

 

Now, some potential bad news for you. I believe that Revell got the colours of the codes wrong, In Jimmy Beedle's history of 43 Squadron he states that the red & white codes were introduced in August 1943 when Flt Lt Laing-Meason took charge of A Flight as he previously used them when with 145 Sqn. Beedle then wites that once Flt Lt Laing-Meason took over command of the Squadron he added blue to the previously all whte codes of B Flight. A Flight used codes A to K and B Flight used the rest of the alphabet. An anomaly is the dates since Sqn Ldr Laing-Meason's tenure was quite short (March - June 1944) and there are pictures of B Flight Spitfire VIIIs with white codes in October 1944.  Since Jimmy Beedle was quite accurate in other colour details, I think that the blue would have probably actually been introduced when 43Sqn re-equipped with the Mk IX shortly after returning from Southern France.  The shades of the codes in the above picture match the blue of the roundel more closely than that of the red. If you compare them to those in the well known picture of Mk VIII MT714 FT-F you can see these are much lighter than the ones in the first picture:

 

large_000000.jpg?action=e&cat=Photograph

ROYAL AIR FORCE OPERATIONS IN MALTA, GIBRALTAR AND THE MEDITERRANEAN, 1940-1945.. © IWM (CL 998) IWM Non Commercial License

 

It'll be understandable if, after all the tribulations you've suffered with the kit, you just leave them as they are!

 

HTH,

 

Jonathan

 

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1 hour ago, XV571 said:

Are you building MK528, the 43 Squadron option? If you are, then I wouldn't be too bothered about the yellow leading edges because they weren't on this aircraft during that timeframe! You can see her in this IWM picture (she's the aircraft on the right):

 

large_000000.jpg?action=e&cat=Photograph

AUSTRIA UNDER ALLIED OCCUPATION. © IWM (CL 2983) IWM Non Commercial License

 

If you zoom right in on the aircraft via the + button option on the full page: https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205207939 you can see there's no yellow stripe on the leading edge (although there is a light area towards the tip which might be overpainted yellow). Note that FT-O (probably MH737) has yellow leading edges with a completely overpainted Sky band and FT-P (probably MJ498) has yellow leading edges and what looks like a small section of the Sky band remaining under the serial number. I've seen other pictures of aircraft on the squadron still with Sky bands post-war! It seems that aircraft used in the Italian campaigns were a real mixed bunch when it came to identfication markings, especially at the end of the war.

 

Now, some potential bad news for you. I believe that Revell got the colours of the codes wrong, In Jimmy Beedle's history of 43 Squadron he states that the red & white codes were introduced in August 1943 when Flt Lt Laing-Meason took charge of A Flight as he previously used them when with 145 Sqn. Beedle then wites that once Flt Lt Laing-Meason took over command of the Squadron he added blue to the previously all whte codes of B Flight. A Flight used codes A to K and B Flight used the rest of the alphabet. An anomaly is the dates since Sqn Ldr Laing-Meason's tenure was quite short (March - June 1944) and there are pictures of B Flight Spitfire VIIIs with white codes in October 1944.  Since Jimmy Beedle was quite accurate in other colour details, I think that the blue would have probably actually been introduced when 43Sqn re-equipped with the Mk IX shortly after returning from Southern France.  The shades of the codes in the above picture match the blue of the roundel more closely than that of the red. If you compare them to those in the well known picture of Mk VIII MT714 FT-F you can see these are much lighter than the ones in the first picture:

 

large_000000.jpg?action=e&cat=Photograph

ROYAL AIR FORCE OPERATIONS IN MALTA, GIBRALTAR AND THE MEDITERRANEAN, 1940-1945.. © IWM (CL 998) IWM Non Commercial License

 

It'll be understandable if, after all the tribulations you've suffered with the kit, you just leave them as they are!

 

HTH,

 

Jonathan

 

Hi Jonathan,

 

Really interesting post, thank you.

 

Revell getting things wrong with this kit is not a great surprise to me!

 

I'm undecided what to do with the yellow - as I type I'm actually experimenting. 

 

I'm having a go with Tamiya flat yellow on a 1/72 Spit I use as a template.

 

If it looks good I may transfer to the full kit.

 

Might it be that MK528 had yellow for a period and they painted over depending on theatre?

 

RIAT tomorrow for me. See how I feel after!

 

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