Josef "Pips" Priller biographies

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Does anyone know if there are any biographies on Josef Priller ? If not whats the best squadron history for both JG51 and JG26 in the Battle of Britain. Also looking for info regarding JG26's defense of the west time frame. Im looking to build all of Priller's aircraft ? Im thinking any books on JG26 would cover Priller ? 

      Im also set for his Bf-109E1/3/7 markings and photos. Now with his Bf-109F white 1, Ive not seen much on it. However i have a few b&w photo's of it. Just not sure if it was an F2 or F4 I've seen both credited to him ? Any thoughts on this ? 

       Any Information on his Fw-190D9 Black 14 ? So far all i have seen is a profile of this ? The rest of his FW190's the A-2/3/5/8 I have plenty of actual photo's but the D9 is lacking in photo evidence. Im also quite skeptical that at that late stage of the war he would have changed from Black 13 to 14 ? Again any info or thoughts are welcome. 

 

Dennis

[JPuente54]

I know that they are out there; his story deserves to be told. He was a great flyer and "Expert" in Luftwaffe service. He also marched to a different drummer; his willingness to talk back to his superiors(including generals) was famous. "The Longest Day" shows his attack on the Allied beach with his wing man; along with his comments to him. If I remember; "Pips" was a consultant to both Cornelius Ryan for his book; and to Zanuck for the "The Longest Day" movie.

Joe

[Troy Smith]

Hi Dennis

 

a chap who may know more is @FalkeEins,   he does a very interesting blog, and has done translating work as well. (he speaks German and French) and is in contact with some of the French researchers who very through books on Luftwaffe units.

these are the post which have 'priller' in them

https://falkeeins.blogspot.com/search?q=priller

 

HTH

T

 

PS while scrolling down.... re Fw190D-9, Black 14...

https://falkeeins.blogspot.com/2016/05/crash-of-fw-190-d-9-wkn-211018-fe-119.html

Quote

Originally assigned to the Stab./JG 26 this D-9 was captured in Flensburg. Since the tactical markings identify it as a machine of the Geschwaderstab of JG 26,  it is from there only a short jump to calling it one of Priller's machines! 

 

Also @Jerry Crandall maybe able to shed some light on Priller's D9

 

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

1 hour ago, JPuente54 said:

He also marched to a different drummer; his willingness to talk back to his superiors(including generals) was famous. 

Thats exactly why he is my favorite Luftwaffe pilot. 

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Ironically and Surprisingly i found out after making this post that Priller's 109 white 1 was an F3. 

[JackG]

6 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Ironically and Surprisingly i found out after making this post that Priller's 109 white 1 was an F3. 

 

Probably this photo is the 109F in question, and yes my copy of the Squadron publication does say F-3.   They also add an interesting bit of info, the F-1/2 fuel stencil indicating the octane was C-3, while the F-3/4 was 87. 

 

 

 

 

Other takes on the same photo:
 

This forum site gives it as an F-1.

https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/threads/josef-pips-priller-and-his-machines.28055/

 

F-2 is what Donald Caldwell captions it in his book  JG 26 (Photographic History), as does the asisbiz site:

https://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Bf-109F/JG26/pages/Messerschmitt-Bf-109F2-1.JG26-(W1+)-Josef-Priller-WNr-7205-St.Omer-Arques-Nov-25-1941-01.html

 

F-4 is claimed by the Kagero publication on JG 26.

 

Some of these sources also give it a werk nummer of 7205.  Looking that number up here (again, no idea how accurate they are). the air frame is suppose to be an F-4:

https://me109.info/

 

 

regards,

Jack

Edited July 9, 2019 by JackG

[tempestfan]

Priller himself authored a fairly large tome on JG 26 that was originally published by Motorbuch In German in the 70s. It’s in my library but I don’t think I ever really looked into it. I will have a look if someone republished it in English, maybe Schiffer did.

EDIT: Actually, it seems it was originally published by Vowinckel Verlag in 1956, a hardcore Nazi Publisher, before Motorbuch took it over. Seems it was instinct I never looked into it... a quick search on abe does not reveal any translations.

Edited July 9, 2019 by tempestfan

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Ok i think I'm getting it dialed in for the 109F. I believe its an F1 these photos are in the same series that @JackG posted. 

Now if I blow up this photo. 

I can see the strengthening straps under the vertical/horizontal stabs. Several of the F-0 prototypes crashed when the tail separated. So the F1's initially had straps on the exterior of the fuselage to strengthen it. 

 

Dennis

[JackG]

Good eye on those external stiffeners on the fuselage tail.  Now that I look at the tail photo I had posted, can make out the bottom stiffener as well.  To be correct, it was the F-1 that experienced the structural failures, with three incidents recorded in February 1941.  A few weeks later a fourth incident occurred, and finally the cause was determined, with resulting fix as mentioned.  The F-2 was also corrected in this manner, though upon delivery, many units would strengthen the interior which then allowed the external stiffeners to be removed.  At the factory end, this problem was properly addressed with production of the F-4.

 

Your last photo also dates the air frame as his mount just prior to his promotion to commander of Stab III/JG 26.  The 58 kill markings was the total achieved by November 8 1941, while his promotion was the following month, December 6th.

http://www.cieldegloire.com/001_priller_j.php

 

 

 

 

So with the stiffeners present, werk nummer 7205 obviously is not an F-4.

 

 

Jack

regards,

Edited July 9, 2019 by JackG

[Vonbraun]

W.Nr 7205 was a Bf 109 F-4 built by WNF in a production run of 1046 aircraft between May 1941 and December 1942.  The external stiffening strips were fitted on many examples of the F-4.  Hans-Joachim Marseille flew at least three F-4/Trop aircraft with these fittings (W.Nr. 8693, 10059, and 8673). Note that Marseille's 8673 went into service in August of 1942.

 

 

Edited July 9, 2019 by Vonbraun

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

6 minutes ago, Vonbraun said:

W.Nr 7205 was a Bf 109 F-4 built by WNF in a production run of 1046 aircraft between May 1941 and December 1942.  The external stiffening strips were fitted on many examples of the F-4.

Thanks Vonbraun, Im just trying to nail the type down so I purchase/build the correct "F". I know there are some differences between the -0/1/2 and the -4 and later models. For one the air inlet was larger on the later F's.  

[JackG]

So with the added tweak of information (thank you Vonbraun), there is no doubt then - Priller's Fredrich was the F-4 version. 

 

This better suits the timeline as well.  JG 26 Stab and Third Gruppe were first to receive the 109F in March 1941.  First Gruppe, of which Priller was captain of  1st Staffel, received their upgrades in June, which coincides with the introduction of the F-4 the very same month:

 

https://books.google.ca/books?id=1JijCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA4&lpg=PA4&dq=109f+production+table&source=bl&ots=ACjsDw5pYB&sig=ACfU3U0dYwFVgxJ7a3Fzhh7eo80osIOKqw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjqgs_LsajjAhVtUd8KHVQbD3oQ6AEwAXoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=109f production table&f=false

 

 

 

 

regards,

Jack

Edited July 9, 2019 by JackG

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Yep looks like its an F-4. 👍🏻 Thanks for all the help everyone on the "F". Now lets what we can learn about his Dora ?  

Edited July 9, 2019 by Corsairfoxfouruncle

[FalkeEins]

On 7/8/2019 at 7:41 PM, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

. Im looking to build all of Priller's aircraft ? Again any info or thoughts are welcome. 

 

Dennis

Dennis 

 

a pilot like Priller would have flown many many aircraft in his lengthy career ....here's a nice view of one of his Emils - this an E-7 as Staffelkapitän  1./JG 26 shortly before converting onto the Friedrich.

 

 

 

In Mombeeck's Luftwaffe Gallery JG 26 Special recently reprinted and available here there are photos of him in an F-2 'white 10'

 

and check this old post on the TOCH forum. Looks at the 'myth' of the D-Day Sword beach strafing run and lists all the 190s that Priller flew  - some 25 different a/c.  ( Info from his log books held in the BA-MA)

 

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=13707&highlight=priller+jim&page=4

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

43 minutes ago, FalkeEins said:

In Mombeeck's Luftwaffe Gallery JG 26 Special recently reprinted and available here there are photos of him in an F-2 'white 10'

Many Thanks for responding, Im hoping its still available in August I will be able to order it then. I have that series of photo's of the E-7 in my files. currently I'm building one as i write this. Hmmm of course I'm not going to build all 25. However maybe just one each of Fw-190-3/5/6/8. I also am planning on four of his BF-109E's and F's. These nine aircraft would include an E-1/3/7, F-2/4, and the Fw-190's to round out the list. This should give a good example of Priller's aircraft from 39-45. I understand this to be a big undertaking but it seems that is where my interest is drifting to lately. 

 

Dennis

[JackG]

I believe this is one of those photos of Priller in 'white 10':

 

 

Note the octane triangle stencil is 87- as mentioned earlier, this was associated with the DB 601E engine introduced in the F-3/4 models.  So if this is correctly captioned photo of an F-2, then the original engine was upgraded?

 

regards,

Jack

Edited July 10, 2019 by JackG

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

47 minutes ago, JackG said:

Note the octane triangle stencil is 87- as mentioned earlier, this was associated with the DB 601E engine introduced in the F-3/4 models.  So if this is correctly captioned photo of an F-2, then the original engine was upgraded?

Very well could be Priller i have a few photo's and the soldier or ground crewman next to him seems to be in all of them. As for upgraded thats very possible as both of A.Galland's F's were uprated. Both of there fuel tags were listed as 100 octane. Though I thought the F-1's and F-2's were listed as C3 which was 96 octane ? The F-3 and up were down-rated to 87 octane ? Could be wrong on that though ? 

 

Dennis

[JackG]

I have the Mombeeck photo book that FalkeEins mentioned.   The caption states the helmeted fellow is Priller's mechanic (Wart).

 

Yes, your breakdown of fuel octane particulars is exactly as outlined in the Squadron publication.   Really difficult to tell the F type concerning 'white 10' so am assuming the author had access to other photos that included a werk nummer?  

 

-----------------

 

btw, was skimming through the Kagero publication on the 109F - The Ace Maker, and found an interesting paragraph on Priller.  Apparently he did fly an F-2 between 16th June and 11th July 1941.  During this period,  he would claim 19 British aircraft with 17 being the Spitfire.  This would bring his score to 39, but unfortunately no info about  fuselage markings.  This then brings us back to 'white 10' which he flew and bagged number 40.

 

 

regards,

Jack

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

I do appreciate your help Jack, Im hoping to get both of those books after August. I found an excerpt in the link that FalkeEins shared that showed Priller still flying an 190F-8 in may of 45. So i guess that gets rid of the Dora question. 

[JackG]

Glad to be of some help, but the participation has also benefited myself as I have some interest in JG 26.

 

I don't have anything on Priller's Dora. 

In addition to FalkeEins blog, an online find references author/researchers Claes Sundin and Christer Bergström.    Supposedly his personal marking 'JUTTA' is still visible even though painted out by Americans:

https://www.historynet.com/build-pips-prillers-fw-190d-9.htm

 

regards,

Jack

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Hmmm now that is good info. So i guess i should build the Dora, i just have to be careful in that its still provisional until a good photo can confirm it. 

 

EDIT: here is a photo of the Dora from Troys post of FalkeEins thread.

i cant see the artwork of the card but maybe its just hidden by the wing ? 

 

 Dennis

Edited July 11, 2019 by Corsairfoxfouruncle

[Peter Roberts]

Great photo of the 109 E7, white (?) 8, when Priller was with 1./JG26.

 

How many victory markings would be on the rudder?

 

Or alternatively, when did 1./JG26 convert to the 109F?

 

PR

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

18 minutes ago, Peter Roberts said:

How many victory markings would be on the rudder?

According to this list he didn't record a kill between October of 1940 and June of 1941. My guess is that number would be somewhere in the low 20's.

 

http://www.cieldegloire.com/001_priller_j.php

 

22 minutes ago, Peter Roberts said:

alternatively, when did 1./JG26 convert to the 109F

I believe it was in early summer of 1941, shortly after the E-7 photo was taken. As JackG pointed out this is an F-2 in the same revetment.  

23 hours ago, JackG said:

I believe this is one of those photos of Priller in 'white 10':



 

Note the octane triangle stencil is 87- as mentioned earlier, this was associated with the DB 601E engine introduced in the F-3/4 models.  So if this is correctly captioned photo of an F-2,

The mechanic is going bare chested since its France in the Summer its probably a bit on the warmer side. Here he is getting out of an 109 F. note the air intake is the correct one for an 109F-2 as its narrow in diameter. 

Note the same mechanic is bare chested so my guess is it is still summer. These photo's are from Asizbiz's website. 

 

Dennis

[JackG]

Another shot of 'white 8', can just make out the right hand corner of Priller's personal emblem.  Note the 1st Staffel eagle emblem is gone, but what is really odd is the  victory tally on the tail.  Two rows of ten are clear, but there looks to be another row below party hidden by the elevator?

https://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Bf-109E/JG26.I.html

 

 

Caldwell captions this photo as June-July 1941.  I guess he was flying both types during the transition to the 109F?

 

Anyhow, Priller does appear to have had a dry spell after his scoring his 20th on Oct. 17 1940 while still with JG 51.   November 20th, he is transferred to JG 26, followed by the whole unit going on leave February 9th the following year, and then returning to France at the end of March.

 

regards,

Jack

[Peter Roberts]

Thanks Dennis.

 

Nice shot Jack! Looks like 27 victories on the rudder in the photo, so places this as on or after 27 June 1941, when he apparently scored his 27th victory. Thanks for posting. 

 

PR

Edited July 12, 2019 by Peter Roberts