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1 minute ago, Dave Swindell said:

So not really bad weather then :fool:

 

Interesting modelling project, one thing that really lets down a waterline model for me is an unrealistic seascape, look forward to see what results you get when you combine the static wake pattern with the generated weather wave pattern. Next challenge, can

you predict the effect of the vessel changing course?

 

Of course I can crank up the sea state a bit, but I also want to see my hull wave pattern when it is done :) So, here the waves and weather patterns are simply added, so no effect of the waves bouncing off the hull or waves as the hull pitches and rolls. At work we do have codes to do that as well, including the effect or rudder executes, but you often have to tune the model a bit to get the weight distribution correct and so on and becomes a much larger project. Although I have access to these tools, I never used these...

 

This approach only requires a hull form and a few hours of work so enough for the model. One question that does remain is how often the water surface would dip below the armoured belt (which happened on some images of Hood and which was the purpose of the wave pattern calculation in the first place, but isn't present on calm water), but then also in bad weather. I may continue with that one day, but will focus on the physical model...

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On 4/7/2022 at 12:43 PM, foeth said:

Oh sure, that would be easy, though you need to carve an opening for the hull... and add the hull wave too. And then it would be useless? 🤔

 

Marijn recently made his water surface using a clay that you need to bake (or use two-component with no hope for late corrections), so I may need to do that with the surface cut up in four quarters and hope it will align well afterwards... (why not). This is mainly meant to have the big waves correct (hull waves that is, weathers waves are random and only have to look ok), then add another layer of very small waves at random. The Fréchot paper has some comments on very small waves but I ignored that as these won''t show up in my plywood stack anyway?

 

In my best Jeremy Clarkson voice, I am a genius. What we all now need, thanks to you, is this weathery choppy stuff you've made 3D printed in a flexible resin just a few millimetres thick, which can then be draped over your hull wave form made from topographic layers of ply like you suggested. Being entirely unburdened by Knowing What I'm Talking About when it comes to 3D printing, this seems like a fantastic idea for a commercial product.

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I have been experimenting with seascapes for Bloys v. Treslong, and am reasonably happy with initial results, but thus far I haven’t gone anywhere beyond a very gentle swell, where you can do the wake patterns with paint and acrylic gel.  
 

However, in the future I have a sea scape for Ark to do, and it is well documented that on the day of the Bismarck strike the weather was pretty bad - reports of the round down rising & falling by 50’ when the abortive Sheffield attack recovered to re-arm, for instance, and a couple of Swordfish with bent undercarriages as a result.  At the start of the Ark build I quoted Gerry Woods’ account of the FDO timing the take-off roll so they got airborne as the bow swung upwards…

 

We’re not talking this kind of weather (unknown US carrier a good deal larger than Ark 4 - and photographer un-credited) in weather when you definitely wouldn’t be flying Swordfish even to attack a Bismarck):

US carrier in very heavy weather

 

… but we could be talking this kind of thing (Hermes in her LPH, pre-ski jump days):

Hermes in heavy weather

Hermes in heavy weather

 

The second photo of the Big H is instructive, because it doesn’t look as though she’s steaming very fast (which Ark wouldn’t have been).  There is a definite wake pattern, but a lot of it results from the reaction of the swell hitting the hull, rather than just the hull cutting through the waves.  You can also see clearly that the sea doesn’t look that rough as you look away to the horizon.. but there’s a pretty large swell in the foreground (visible at the boundary of the white wake vs the normal sea).  


The WW2 Ark was a pretty similar size to Hermes; slightly (<1,000 tons) larger displacement, 800’ overall vs Hermes’ c.740’, 94’ beam vs Hermes’ 90’.

 

It’s going to be a challenge, but that’s half the fun (and why I am experimenting now!).

 

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19 hours ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

 

In my best Jeremy Clarkson voice, I am a genius. What we all now need, thanks to you, is this weathery choppy stuff you've made 3D printed in a flexible resin just a few millimetres thick, which can then be draped over your hull wave form made from topographic layers of ply like you suggested. Being entirely unburdened by Knowing What I'm Talking About when it comes to 3D printing, this seems like a fantastic idea for a commercial product.

In my best Patrick Stewart voice: make it so.

 

Some modellers produce wonderful seascapes but they are also a bit distracting if the waves are too large, too much green water, large ship motions; might be all correct but it seems a bit overly dramatic?  In terms of heavy sea state, the lowest pics looks great. I wanted to show a bit of the ship's own wave pattern, a pattern than most modellers do not get correct (The undulating bow wave pattern is often missing and diverging waves "appear' mid-hull that do no exist"), but (!), I also want to add a bit of sea state that usually hides that pattern (as in these carrier pics). In the next weeks I'll be playing with various sea states and see how the two add up, and if it still looks ok....

 

I'll also start work on a new etch set, itemize what parts I missed or failed. I already noted a design error in one of the admiralty ladders so I am one short... more evening hours to spend. I have to add the quad vickers guns, details for boats & launched (50ft steam pinnace!) and probably new 4" gun shields (experiment...). I used to design in Autocad and then export to Illustrator, but now Rhino 6 can do everything....

 

 

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On 4/9/2022 at 8:48 AM, foeth said:

Some modellers produce wonderful seascapes but they are also a bit distracting if the waves are too large, too much green water, large ship motions; might be all correct but it seems a bit overly dramatic? 


I agree; we shouldn’t ever lose sight of the focus of the model, which is the ship.  Having said that, to those of us who have seen a lot of the real thing in all moods, a poorly-executed sea scape (& there are a lot) can really detract from the whole thing, however good the ship bit is.  
 

I have linked to this build more than once before, because in my eyes @andrewa gets the balance spot on. In real life (as he himself acknowledges) the three ships wouldn’t be that close - Hermes & Broadsword are doing a RAS, but Yarmouth wouldn’t be that close in - but the base must be pretty chunky even as it is, so artistic license is fine.

 

For this discussion, though, Andrew has utterly nailed it; the sea is realistic, the right colour, with confused interaction of wakes / pressure waves just as there would be in real life… so you stop looking at it.  The sea isn’t a distraction, but it’s convincing.  If I can get an end result anywhere near this, I’ll be well happy!

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That is indeed a seascape and I hope to approach something similarly convincing... fingers crossed!

 

BelowDecks_09.jpg

 

Alright, a soon-to-be blogpost image shoing a large vent at H. I was planning on not adding it as I already had a vent there, but it shows up on the boat deck so had no choice...

 

 

BelowDecks_13.jpg

 

The large vent trunk is the the dynamo room vent and appears on the boat deck. It is open on the sides on some images and closed off on most others and copied that style. The trunk didn't really end up nicely with the position on the main deck on my model (that was already painted except for the area where the vent ends up as I tossed the previous version that was an erroneous as-built trunk) and I gave it a slightly larger sweep to the side than on the original drawings. This was a really difficult part making an angle in the horizontal as well as to the side, and only after the entire part I could see if it would align well; this took a few attempts. The tent top was fitted with some newly arrived Flyhawk 0.3mm etched grid; the interior was painted before placing, just in case.

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Stunning attention to detail and sleuthing going on here, as always. As a side note, I've always wondered about those vertical poles in the above shots (I'm not even going to try to pretend I know what I'm talking about and name them, but I think you've marked as E). They look mighty flimsy to my eyes, and I've always wondered whether any [battle] damage to them would impact the structural rigidity/integrity of the deck above?

 

David

Edited by Adm Lord De Univers
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These are support pillars and they appear below the boat crutches (inboard ones) and a few more outboard (probably carrying the UP launcher? The 4" guns rest on much larger pillars) . I suppose if a few were damaged your deck will sag a bit? I added the location from the plans but now that I have redone the entire deck above the alignment is not... perfect... no one will notice 🥶 I added the hammock rails to the boatdeck ceiling and if everything went as plans the pillars and rails will not intersect... 🤞

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BelowDecks_12.jpg

 

Boat deck fitted with hammock rails. I made a small staging area to align the parts that were etched a set or two previously, skewered together by 0.2mm rod. I added both long and short rails, the short ones above the position where the 5.5in guns used to be and where the rails couldn't continue. Hope they don't break off during the final assembly stages though...

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  • 4 weeks later...

meanwhile5.jpg

 

I cannot think of any more details to add that shouldn't be added after priming... latest additions are staghorn bollards near the whaler positions (davit soldering done and waiting in a box), a few guard tubes near the main mast legs (two in front of the central leg. one each behind the support leg), a ton of mushrooms, the 4" ammo hoists, stanchion locations drilled in, strips added to the deck edge and a of cleanup and damage repair..

 

(To be added: 3 ladders that need to be re-etched due to a design error, support frames for the (stored) ladders down the quarterdeck, one je-ne-sais-quoi that broke off (opposite side)).

 

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Thanks for the comments...👍 My last priming attempt resulting in a very dusty layer that required days to clean up (forecastle). I'll do a few primer test runs before I continue. I already did a few tests a few weeks ago and I think I did not add enough thinner.... These reproduced the same dust layer that was gone when increasing the thinning ratio, giving an excellent cover. I've been spending so much time building that I appear out of touch with airbrushing basics 😄 I also ordered some MrHobby White Primer and some Mr Color Thinner 400 (should have some retardant) and see how that stacks against Tamiya.

 

If I get the same dusty layer on this part I have no other choice than to bury the model in the garden and live in shame. Never realized airbrushing could be so terrifying... I procrastinated this weekend and booted my game PC (had been idle since the start of this year)...

 

evoApparatehalter_eng.jpg

 

Duesenreinigungsset_eng.jpg

 

I added this nice new stand to my order, as well as a new Gom Jabbar....

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I look and I am always mesmerized.  As to primer - I know what you mean.  alclad is slightly messy to use but performs well and is very "light".

Agree with Crisp about Andrew A's seascape.  One of the finest I've seen B)

Rob

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Thanks Maarten, same here :D Unfortunately, it hath pleased the Lord to knock over one small tree in last week's storm so some gardening was in order. I celebrated this hard work and will probably not be hungover when the F1 race starts to help the wife support Max.

 

Meanwhile, in this weeks episode of How often can you look at a photograph and find something new

 

AboveDecks_01.jpg

 

The aft Quad Vickers are supposed to have two ammo lockers on their pedestals, but as the lower images show one of these lockers is stored on the boat deck. I concluded that only one locker was therefore fitted to the pedestal, but the top left image---that I acquired a few years later---shows two lockers; the other side (top right) remains inconclusive. And, it seems that one additional locker is placed on the boat deck with its back against the at searchlight platform, so that the total number of RU lockers for the machine guns is raised to four.

 

AboveDecks_02.jpg

 

With a fellow Hood enthousiast we were also discussing the total number of RU lockers for the 4" guns. The AOTS Hood seems to be based on this official 1940 plans that almost matches the photographs. The colour coding is as follows

 

- Bright green: clearly spotted on a photogrpah

- Dark green: vaguely spotted on a photograph but in the right position

- Orange: no photograph found of the locker / area

- Red: clearly spotted to be not present.

- Yellow: one location spottted on a photograph but not on the plans

 

- Blue: ammo hoist (as fitted to the part seen in previous post)

- Magenta: location of the Quad Vickers RU lockers.

 

So that also means that if all 4" guns have 5 RU lockers we are one short.

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  • 1 month later...
On 22/05/2022 at 12:01, foeth said:

So that also means that if all 4" guns have 5 RU lockers we are one short.

"(3) Eighty rounds of 4-inch ready Use ammunition were stowed in light type lockers on the boat deck and on the foc's'le deck" - from page 89 of the inquiry, here. Hopefully a simple division by number of shells stored in each may lend credence to the number of lockers each had.

 

And for those unfamiliar with the mystery of mathematics, such as meself:

 

"5 in No. Ready Use lockers were supplied to each of the 7 in No. 4” mountings. Each locker contained 32 rounds, therefore 160 rounds per mounting = 80 rounds per gun. Total weight of cordite per mounting approximately 1440 lbs.

The approved amount of U.P. ammunition was 2 in No. lockers per mounting at the mounting, and 4 in No. per mounting stowed elsewhere. Each locker contained 10 charges." Pg389 of the Inquiry, here.

 

Now I assume they asked someone, listed on that link, who was familiar with the loadout at the time of loss and not just the plans and working back to what should have been present. Although, since I believe the Board appeared to discount the boat deck fire being a direct cause of loss, I doubt they would've put much effort into ascertaining the exact numbers if lower (say 4), since the higher number (5) was not felt responsible; but hopefully it was documented correctly.

 

I was going to reply differently as my memory was that there had been a change in configuration, number and/or placement of the RU lockers (might just be for the UP), following some mishaps with the UP ammo (and wanting to reduce the amount of explosive and/or concentration thereof on deck). Unfortunately I couldn't refind the section, and I was pretty sure its somewhere either nearby to a discussion on securing the lockers at sea, at action stations, etc in the Inquiry, or somewhere in Briggs' book. Good chance it's a false memory however.

 

So, 5? But one is a Where's Wally of lockers/heavily camouflaged?

 

David

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