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Lysander IIIA SD, 161 Squadron


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@Stephen started his GB build thread for a Beaufighter VII using markings from a Blackbird Models sheet, Operation Overlord Pt:1. I noticed markings for a Lysander were also on that sheet. With Eduard's reboxing of the Gavia plastic in my stash, and a quick trip through the ether to Sprue Brothers to secure that decal sheet, I'm ready to begin! While I originally bought the kit for the 309 Squadron (Polish) markings shown on the box art, this GB is an even better topic.

JRP-start0.jpg

 

This kit is the Gavia plastic with new bits from Eduard, including the instructions and decals shown here.

JRP-start2.jpg

 

And here are Eduard's PE, resin, and masks

JRP-start4.jpg

 

Gavia's plastic

JRP-start5.jpg

and

JRP-start6.jpg

 

Fair warning, it will be something of a record if I do complete within this GB's span.

 

BTW, living in Southern California, a mag 6.4 earthquake hit about 180 mi NE of me (near NAWS China Lake) as I sat down to start this thread. As of this moment, the largest shock was 6.4, with 45 fore- and after-shocks so far. Given the distance, the temblor was felt as a rolling motion in my home, causing hanging fixtures to gently sway.

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I seem to recall a question about a D-Day Lysander in chat?

This looks interesting - though all that PE would worry me.

 

Modelling in an earthquake zone? Hope you don't get too many shocks - I have enough trouble keeping parts on my modelling tray over stable ground. 

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That same decal sheet inspired me too, but I couldn't find a kit for love nor money. Can't wait to see this one come together.

 

Andy 

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@Robert Stuart, I'll check that out. I read an in-box review of this kit that suggested the Gavia plastic was quite good, so perhaps some of the PE and resin won't make it into this build.

 

@Foxbat, as soon as I saw that decal sheet, I had to do this! It's just not a subject you think of with D-Day stripes! Luckily, Sprue Bros had the sheet in stock. I wish I had similar luck with the Airfile book, but that has eluded my Google-foo.

 

Dang, 1st steps and I have a question. Eduard shows "Early" and "Late" pilot seats, with no qualifications of either configuration. I also see that the kit includes a rear gunner configuration, while Tangmere Military Aviation Museum notes that SD's had a rear compartment more suited to the aircraft's role in infiltration and exfiltration. I need more references.

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1 hour ago, dnl42 said:

1st steps and I have a question. Eduard shows "Early" and "Late" pilot seats, with no qualifications of either configuration.

Took a look at the instructons, and I think that relates to the seat belts, not the seat itself.

 

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26 minutes ago, Robert Stuart said:

Took a look at the instructons, and I think that relates to the seat belts, not the seat itself.

Indeed; seat belts are the issue. I suppose June 1944 and an SD mean "Late"?

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I'm off to the LHS this morning to see if they have reference materials on-hand; if not Amazon will do. Meanwhile, electronic research continues. Looking at images on the Interwebs, I see the prototype's slats aren't even suggested on this kit. According to this Shuttleworth Collection video, the flaps and slats could be manually stowed while on the ground, but are normally extended. Another reference corroborates this by noting the slats would normally be pushed in when the pilot climbed aboard before a flight.

 

Unfortunately, I haven't found any images of the SD mods made under "Special Contract Westland", just textual descriptions. Sadly, some of it is contradictory. Also, while the kit's instructions differentiate some parts as SD-only, other differences are missed, including the removal of the pick-up hook from its Army Cooperation role--I haven't seen any picture of an SD aircraft with this fitment. Another area of the instructions I must not follow is to butcher the wheel pants to remove the side skirts; a photo of JR-P in sharp-edged D-Day stripes shows the skirts in place.

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I am a guide at Tangmere and can confirm that the Special Duties Lysander did not carry a rear gunner.

 

John

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I've got Hugh Verity's We Landed by Moonlight - Secret RAF Landings in France 1940-1944 on order from Amazon and Warpaint's Westland Lysander on order from Sprue. The former is cited as a source by multiple online references.

 

 

Yesterday's 6.4 "earthquake" has been demoted to a "fore-shock". The NAWS China Lake/Ridgecrest CA area just had a ~7.1 mag earthquake.

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On 7/4/2019 at 10:41 PM, Robert Stuart said:

I seem to recall a question about a D-Day Lysander in chat?

This looks interesting - though all that PE would worry me.

 

Modelling in an earthquake zone? Hope you don't get too many shocks - I have enough trouble keeping parts on my modelling tray over stable ground. 

Yes ‘twas I! I wanted to do one in 1/72, but was having trouble getting the kit.

 

very pleased to see this on the go, Lizzie with stripes! She’s going to look great.

 

hope alls well with the earthquake!

 

Rob

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Still looking for primary documentation on the SD's rear compartment. One description found online indicates all rear compartment gear was removed save the radio. Appendix F of We Landed by Moonlight indicates the radio was changed for a smaller unit in the SDs. Several online photos show the radio on a sliding tray, looking just deep enough to hold the radio. That could explain why the kit's radio shelf looks excessively large--it is!!

 

In any event, I'm working on the cockpit bits so they're ready to assemble when (if?) I get some better info.

 

Folding the pilot's seat bottom from a spidery bit of PE was interesting. The sides and front both needed rounded--not right-angle--bends. I was thinking of making a mold from scrap plastic when I realized that the seat back was ideal for the side bends. I formed the seat's front bend around a #61 drill.

 

JRP-seat.jpg

 

At first, I was equivocal about the control sticks. Eduard's resin stick is on the left (note the brake lever is missing--perhaps a short shot?) and Gavia's larger injected version is on the right.  Photos suggest Eduard's spade is better sized, so I'll be fixing it. Photos show the stick per-se has a dog-leg shape; this makes sense as I was concerned about getting the seat and stick in a sensible configuration. I'll need some more surgery to make the dog-leg.

JRP-sticks.jpg

 

Eduard's film instrument panels and dials are greatly enhanced by Liquid Chrome pen on the back. The dials should be white, but chrome shows better.

JRP-IPs.jpg

 

The foot plate and rear bulkhead needed some drilling to match photos. I've just realized that the random-shaped PE attached to the foot mount should be a scissor-jack affair to raise and lower the seat. I'll need to remake that from scrap PE or perhaps 5 mill AL sheet.

JRP-bulkheads.jpg

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Always nice to see a Lysander even a MkIII

I don't know if this will be of any use to you but I did a MkII a while ago from the old Hawk kit.  The thread does explain some of the differences between the MkII and other Mk's if you can wade your way through it

 

 

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@hendie, thanks! I've been searching extensively for info on the Lysander, which is surprisingly sparse--particularly the SD mods. The Pilot's Notes have been excellent for the cockpit and operational aspects of the Mk.III.

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Looking forward to seeing this come together. I grew up in High Wycombe and vividly remember watching the Lizzie restored by PPS make its early flights as a kid in high school. Not many of my mates understood!

 

Ian

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@Hewy, @Beazer, and @limeypilot, thanks! @Beazer, you won't want the boxing I have, #8083, as it doesn't have the skis or markings for a Finnish craft.

 

I just received Warpaint #48. It has a photo of JR-P. The photo caption notes the serials are overpainted and there are no wing stripes. The aircraft was apparently typically flown by F/O L.R. "Lucky" Newhouse.

 

I'm in a quandary about the "all rear compartment equipment was removed" statement I noted above. I wonder if that also refers to an electrical panel on the starboard side of the rear compartment. I've removed the plastic from the frame structure, as Eduard would have you replace it with PE. I'm just not sure if I should add the PE. 

 

I also found that I have the CMK #4130 detail kit. Among the resin bits are the flaps and outboard slats. Mysteriously, the inboard slats aren't provided, but I suppose I can make those from 5 mil Al sheet.

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6 hours ago, Hewy said:

Ohh controversy, even more interesting , 😋

Any opinion?

 

Are the Westland archives available available online so I can peruse the "Special Contract Westland"? My Google-foo has failed me. As it turns out, the text in Appendix F of We Landed By Moonlight appears to be most authoritative, but it's vague on the rear compartment.

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I will be paying attention to this one.

 

I managed to aquire an old Matchbox Lysander myself and the very same decals.  They look pretty good.  I also have the Airfile book that this comes from and as far as I can remember (I will check when I get home) that is the only picture of the Lysander in the book.

 

Saw above that you couldn't find the book dnl42, wasn't sure it you meant to purchase it or to download.  But I found it on Amazon, but it is $35... but it is a nice book.  There is a nice bit at the back about the Luftwaffe's limited role in D-Day.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Operation-Overlord-June-Commonwealth-Camouflage/dp/0956980201/ref=sr_1_40?crid=3BNLW2CT9KWFZ&keywords=operation+overlord&qid=1562935113&s=books&sprefix=Operation+over%2Cstripbooks-intl-ship%2C211&sr=1-40

 

I just wanted to know about the fuel tank.  Is that the same as the paper ones you see on Mustangs or was it a special one for the Lysander?  My kit doesn't have the tank hence the question.

 

Kind Regards,

 

Dazz

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@Dazzio, thanks for stopping by!

 

The Warpaint #48 book, Westland Lyscander, has a photo of JR-P on page 40. It's one shot that provides scant additional info beyond the Blackbird Models profile drawing. The photo caption reads

Quote

The only known Special Duties Lysander III to wear black and white invastion strips on the fuselage but not on the wings. The actual serial has been overpainted leaving the red codes JR-P denoting No.161 Squadron, A Flight. It was generally flown by Flying Officer, 'Lucky' Newhouse whose story is contained int eh test. (via R.L.Ward)

Reading this again, I see that my interpretation of "only known" as "the only Lysander to wear invasion stripes" may well be incorrect. Another interpretation could be "the only Lysander wearing invasion stripes to not have under-wing stripes." :shrug:

 

Some place, I found a description indicating the external tank was an existing (right cylindrical) tank with a fairing nose and tail added when fitted on the Lysander. I seem to recall reading this along side a contemporaneous photo apparently showing different finish on the nose v. the tank proper. I'll need to go over my photos and docs to find this reference. I may well be "over-remembering" this.  The tank and external ladder are provided by Eduard on a small "SD" sprue.

 

AP 1582C, Pilot's Notes for the Lysander are available online. It's the authoritative reference for the cockpit. It also has operational info that explained key aspects of the slats and flaps.

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