fishplanebeer Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 Dear All, Can anyone shed some light on this origins of this kit (and its stable mates) as it looks like it could be one from another manufacturer and just re-boxed etc... so not worth the money? I'm thinking AZ did quite a few early Spits along with RS and Smer so wondered if their offerings are actually new tools or just using those purchased from others? Kind Regards Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hornet133 Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 The KP (AZ) kits are there own tooling, not related to any others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackson Duvalier Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 The box is one of those miserable end-opening affairs, but that's not a deal breaker. 🤨 My main complaints: the fit where the underside of the wing meets the rear fuselage is... elusive, for lack of a better term, and due to the angles there's no convenient way to clamp it. I wound up with loads of gluey fingerprints aft of the wing. A forewarned and wary approach will probably yield a better result. The canopy is thick and doesn't fit well at all, I tried using a clamp to encourage it and wound up with a lovely frosting of stress cracks inside a thoroughly welded-on transparency, whereupon the build stalled seventeen months ago. If I were to do it again I'd cut up the kit part and substitute an opened vac canopy as the cockpit details are done well enough for the scale and the side door is molded shut-- can't see much down in the hole but a properly rigged harness is apropos. KP includes lots of extra Spit-bits for your spares bin. Surface detail is acceptable as long as one is careful not to park it too close to an Eduard Spit. If you like to add pounce-wheel riveting and beading tool fasteners, you could have a heyday on this kit. I haven't heard any overt gripes regarding shape/outline as I have for the Tamiya Mk. Vb. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 I don't have this variant, but earlier releases of the same basic tooling were a little short on span, IIRC. Otherwise a very nice little kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDriskill Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 I am no Spitfire expert, so take my comments for what they are worth...but, I recently picked up the KP Mk VB and was very impressed with it. No doubt has some of the usual short-run foibles as well-described above, but seems like a basically accurate and cleanly-detailed kit. IMHO the best all-round Mk V’s in 1/72 at the moment. Depending on shaky memory here, I think AZ did have another “family” of early-mark Spitfires that were a step below this quality-wise. But the newer kits in KP boxes are fresh tooling and among the company’s better efforts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeR Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 8 hours ago, fishplanebeer said: Dear All, Can anyone shed some light on this origins of this kit (and its stable mates) as it looks like it could be one from another manufacturer and just re-boxed etc... so not worth the money? I'm thinking AZ did quite a few early Spits along with RS and Smer so wondered if their offerings are actually new tools or just using those purchased from others? Kind Regards Colin. Definitely their own tooling. Started life as a Vb but they added an extra sprue with a set of wings for the Vc. First boxing: LINK. Second boxing: LINK. 72147 hasn't been released yet but will be the same plastic but with different decals. I've built two so far: As for buildability, they are typical of short-run kits in that some areas fit better than others. As Jackson Duvalier wrote the join between the rear of the wing and the lower fuselage is a bit tricky but sand then test fit a few times it becomes acceptable. To help add thin strips of plasticard to both help fill the gaps and to increase the gluing surface. Filler will be needed to some degree. The trailing edge of the 'C' wing needs sanded down as it's far too thick if not rectified and the wing tips also need sanding to make them a little less "pointy". The canopy is a bit thick but the fit can be dealt with by careful sanding and test fitting. You do need to add filler at the forward end below the windscreen quarterlights as you'll get a nasty step as well as a panel line that shouldn't be there. You get a choice of three types or propeller and spinner, De Havilland, Rotal Metal and Rotol Wooden. The latter two look OK in shape but the De Havilland is crud - the blades are too fat and the spinner is far too blunt - neither are easily rectified. If your intending on building an RAAF machine the best kit to scrounge a replacement from is the 2012 tool Airfix Spitfire Mk.I. The fit of the Vokes tropical filter isn't great but isn't terrible either - careful filling and sanding will be needed. I haven't used the normal "chin" but I suspect some filler will be needed where it joins the wing. All-in-all not a bad kit and far better than other short-run kits out there but you really need to test fit several times before commiting glue to anything. Hope that helps, Mike. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishplanebeer Posted July 4, 2019 Author Share Posted July 4, 2019 Me thinks that I'll wait for a more accurate version with out all the hassle as I'm no expert. My main aim is to find a good/better donor kit for the Brigade X11 kit in preference to the Italeri Vb but seems I'll have to wat a wee bit longer as no manufacturer, even the big boys, are willing to issue a half decent MkV with B and C wing options. Strange given that it was the most produced mark of this amazing aircraft so perhaps Eduard and others may come up with the goods as I'm falling over excellent Mk9's. There again Airfix did do a MkXII in 48th scale so maybe they might down size at some point as Geoffrey Quill did consider this to be the best Spit he ever flew, and he knew a thing or two about it! Thanks everyone for your replies. Kind Regards Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malpaso Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 I think the KP Vb and Vc are great. Easy to build, reasonably detailed. Not quite plug n play like Eduard IXs as the location for some parts is hmm, how shall we say, ah yes, it's left to the modeller to display their skills! On the other hand for example, the seat is one piece and looks more convincing to me than Eduards at 1/72, so you win some, you lose some. I wouldn't hesitate buying KP or their related AZ ones which are a little more challenging, but still not hard to build. Not really any harder to build than the Airfix Mk1 and much finer result. Cheers Will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael louey Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 3 hours ago, fishplanebeer said: Me thinks that I'll wait for a more accurate version with out all the hassle as I'm no expert. My main aim is to find a good/better donor kit for the Brigade X11 kit in preference to the Italeri Vb but seems I'll have to wat a wee bit longer as no manufacturer, even the big boys, are willing to issue a half decent MkV with B and C wing options. Strange given that it was the most produced mark of this amazing aircraft so perhaps Eduard and others may come up with the goods as I'm falling over excellent Mk9's. There again Airfix did do a MkXII in 48th scale so maybe they might down size at some point as Geoffrey Quill did consider this to be the best Spit he ever flew, and he knew a thing or two about it! Thanks everyone for your replies. Kind Regards Colin. Hi Colin, Just noticed your query. Interest in Spitfire Vc's appear to crop up regularly. The last time I saw this was due to problems finding the Sword Mk Vc. At that time I found some remaining stock at Hobbylink Japan. They sold out quickly after that post however they may now have new stock - https://hlj.com/scale-models/1-72-scale-supermarine-spitfire-mk-vc-trop-raaf-swd72045 I did a review of this kit on Ausseie Modeller - http://www.aussiemodeller.com.au/pages/Reviews/acft kit/Louey_SwordSpitVc.html The only "issues" I see with this kit is that the undercarrige might be a bit stalky (I've compared this to my various other Spitfires and the look of the plane on photos) and my next build I would reduce the undercarriage length. The other comment I've heard is the wing span might be marginally short but I'm not overly worried about this. Cheers Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work In Progress Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 It does look a bit up on stilts. I think I will trim it a bit when I get round to mine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 (edited) There's rather more to the difference between a Vb and a Vc than "a few wing options" Although apparently identical in external shape they are different wings, with different undercarriage angles. The fuselage will also be different because of a different windscreen. That's not allowing for extra bulges near the ailerons on some early examples, or the horn elevators on late ones. You can perhaps restrain yourself waiting for a perfect Mk.Vb and/or a perfect Mk.Vc, but this will waste a long time better spent modelling using some of the merely very good kits around. I've yet to see a flawless kit, so good luck. (Though to be fair the Arma Hurricane Mk.I comes pretty close!) You may well find that the Perfect Mk.Vc will not be a good fit for the Brigade conversion because of differences in the design approaches. I'd suggest that the work required to use the Brigade conversion - and not on a MK.Vb anyway - would considerably exceed any work required to make a KP Spitfire Mk.Vc. There has been an injected Mk.XII, not so many years back, which was available from Xtraplanes I believe. (I also believe that Quill preferred the Mk.VIII.) Edited July 5, 2019 by Graham Boak 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malpaso Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 I agree that if the OP is actually looking to build a Mk.XII in 1/72, the best option is the Xtrakits one (made by Sword I believe). They must be around; I've picked up two in recent years at shows less than a tenner each. Even cheaper is the Aeroclub conversion; got two of those too at local shows. Designed for the old Airfix Mk.1 I reckon just the nose could be used with a modern kit such as Eduard, KP or AZ with some spares (I.e. a circular type oil cooler). If the Brigade conversion is anything like their twin seater I got, it will be a challenge. Cutting out the Aeroclub vacform will be easier than cleaning up Brigade's castings! I don't mind as mine plus Italeri donor was a bit cheaper than one of the (AZ in this case) Tr.9 kits, but the list price for the Brigade conversion kit is madness. On the other hand I picked up Brigade XII decal set which seems nice and include 91 squadron option unlike Xtrakits. Cheers Will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 I never built the Brigade Mk.XII conversion, so I don't know how well this could be suited to the use with other kits, in any case I would not restrict myself to a Mk.Vc if the goal is to use the conversion. A Mk.IX would be equally suitable and if I remember correctly this conversion was indeed designed for the Italeri Mk.IX. I would say to consider the Eduard Mk.IX, that can be found cheaper than the KP Vc and is of higher quality, but the way the tailplanes attach in this kit may make their use with the Brigade fuselage not that easy. The Eduard Mk.IX also has the advantage of giving a wide range of options as every box includes a lot of different parts like tailplanes, gun fairings, landing gear legs and wheel wells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Headroom Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 ....or you could have some fun and modify the newish Airfix I/II like wot I did Trevor 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinnAndersen Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 (edited) 20 hours ago, fishplanebeer said: Me thinks that I'll wait for a more accurate version with out all the hassle as I'm no expert. My main aim is to find a good/better donor kit for the Brigade X11 kit in preference to the Italeri Vb but seems I'll have to wat a wee bit longer as no manufacturer, even the big boys, are willing to issue a half decent MkV with B and C wing options. Strange given that it was the most produced mark of this amazing aircraft so perhaps Eduard and others may come up with the goods as I'm falling over excellent Mk9's. There again Airfix did do a MkXII in 48th scale so maybe they might down size at some point as Geoffrey Quill did consider this to be the best Spit he ever flew, and he knew a thing or two about it! Thanks everyone for your replies. Kind Regards Colin. There was a rather interesting thread a while ago on the XII and how to build one. I have made a XII with parts of the Brigade conversion, but with the Hasegawa IX as basis. I also definitely remember that Quill preferred the XII or was it just the prototype DP845 ? HTH Finn Edited July 5, 2019 by FinnAndersen insert url Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Sherratt Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 Interested to read all this. All helpful, thanks. I have one of these KP kits to build and it’s slowly nearing the top of the stash... John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishplanebeer Posted July 7, 2019 Author Share Posted July 7, 2019 I'm pretty sure that Quill regarded the XII as the best he flew but also regarded the 8 as being probably the most cosmetic and aesthetic. That aside I'll try and find the Sword Vc as a basis for my XII conversion as it will save some time when it comes to fitting and the correct wing cannon bulges as I'm no expert when it comes to re-scribing panel lines etc...! Thanks again for all the inputs. Kind Regards Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denford Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 (edited) On 7/5/2019 at 4:06 PM, Graham Boak said: There has been an injected Mk.XII, not so many years back, which was available from Xtraplanes I believe. (I also believe that Quill preferred the Mk.VIII.) The above Xtrakit (limited run to the extent it is now almost 'extinct') was very 'skinny' in the rear fuselage, with butt-joined tailplanes and some errors like having you put overwing bulges for the undercarriage! Otherwise, for a limited run, not too bad. My recollection (and it is only that) of Quill was that a Spitfire Xll, Typhoon and an FW 190 were all lined-up abreast. Quill guessed it was some sort of speed-trial (not really a race as such) and they came in in the order I have listed: the exact opposite of what was 'officially' expected! Some years back, when KP first announced a new 'range' of V's I asked (at Telford) whether they intended an Xll too. The response was an emphatic NO. That said, and in co-operation with Freightdog, they have now produced a Seafire l. Who knows what might follow..... Edited July 7, 2019 by Denford Extra information Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinnAndersen Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 On 07/07/2019 at 22:46, fishplanebeer said: I'm pretty sure that Quill regarded the XII as the best he flew but also regarded the 8 as being probably the most cosmetic and aesthetic. That aside I'll try and find the Sword Vc as a basis for my XII conversion as it will save some time when it comes to fitting and the correct wing cannon bulges as I'm no expert when it comes to re-scribing panel lines etc...! Thanks again for all the inputs. Kind Regards Colin. You may find it hard to locate the Sword Vc; they are quite rare these days, but not as rare as the Xtrakit XII. The picture below illustrates the only modification needed on an Eduard early IX to make the wing a Vc wing. It's not so difficult. If everything else fails, I've still got the forms to make a crude Vc oil cooler, so try to contact me then. HTH Finn 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 The Sword Mk.Vc doesn't have any advantage over the KP one that the thread started with, and is much less available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael louey Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 16 hours ago, Graham Boak said: The Sword Mk.Vc doesn't have any advantage over the KP one that the thread started with, and is much less available. Graham's right about availability, though the RAAF boxing of the kit does come with some nice colour etch, the transparencies sound better than the KP as does the DH spinner/props and the fit of the Vokes filter. Only the first 2 have any relevance for a Mk XII conversion but the first 2 items are nice for any Spitfire using this kit as a basis. Not sure about shape comparisons between the 2 kits - I think their were comments in Britmodeller. I have to say I haven't got a KP kit to compare though they are planning a RAAF boxing which might be tempting. Cheers Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 I've just compared the unmade KP Spitfire Mk.Ib (basically the same tooling as their Vc) with the unmade SEAC boxing of the Sword Mk.Vc, and apart from the requisite differences for the marks I find it difficult to distinguish between the two - indeed but for a minor difference of fit where the Vokes filter would go on a tropical aircraft the two could have come from the same (if modified) tool. There's no effective difference between the thickness of the two canopies, both appearing completely acceptable. The surface detail appears identical. They share the fault of having a wing a couple of mm short on span, which is regrettable rather than significant as it appears to be shared across the entire span and so effectively invisible. As for the props, the KP spinner does appear too rounded, but the Sword appears too long. Ideally both could be replaced, I seem to have plenty of spare ones in my bits box from Airfix and other sources. I can't comment on the Vokes because the Mk.I rightly doesn't have one. As I recall, the Sword Seafire III kit (in its D-Day boxing at least) came with almost a complete sprue for a Mk.Vc - I recall searching for additional parts to make a bitza Mk.Vc from what was left and the only item I couldn't manage was a tailwheel. (I did ask John Adams if he had any spares down the back of drawers and at Telford he handed me a small back of Spitfire u/c bits for which I was eternally grateful, even though two of the three tailwheels were for Hurricanes. They'll come in useful sometime.) So the these kits are equally suitable as sources for a Mk.XII conversion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warhawk Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 (edited) On 7/9/2019 at 6:51 PM, Graham Boak said: ... Sword ... share the fault of having a wing a couple of mm short on span, which is regrettable rather than significant as it appears to be shared across the entire span and so effectively invisible. I beg to differ. Laying any wing from a Sword Spitfire (and Xtrakit - since the author of these toolings was the same) onto plans reveals that the error is in the length of the ailerons. Comparing the Sword/Xtrakit ailerons to Eduard Mk.IX aileron seems to confirm this: The results are exactly the same with Sword PR Mk.IV, Sword Mk.XVI, and the Xtrakit Mk.XII (pictured above) - each aileron is 1.35 mm shorter The good news it that all Sword/Xtrakit fuselages are spot-on, using the same method. BTW, I have used the excellent plans drawn by Junpei Temma, scaled exactly to dimensions from the Montforton book. Regards, Aleksandar Edited July 10, 2019 by warhawk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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