patmaquette Posted June 7, 2020 Author Share Posted June 7, 2020 1 hour ago, Black Knight said: Tis looking very, very well. The museum should be well pleased or they'll have me to answer to ! (joke) imvho I think the ship sits too high It reminds me of the flying island in Gulliver's Travels or ships in a story in Baron Munchausen's Tales I think you may well be right. It makes you double-take, especially when you can't see the supports. But it may be a feature that catches the visitor's attention (in a good way, hopefully!). Also, rather than lower the model, I could fill the space beneath with information about the ship. I'll keep the thought in mind and get viewpoints from those viewing the model. Many thanks, @Black Knight, Pat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Courageous Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 Stunning. Stuart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patmaquette Posted June 22, 2020 Author Share Posted June 22, 2020 On 23/05/2020 at 02:04, Black Knight said: e. Have you any clear plastic? How big is the lantern? I would make it either out of solid clear plastic or sheet plastic with painted plastic framing Stern lantern...... Thanks for the suggestion, @Black Knight. Here is the kit's lantern assembled and primered. I added a ball onto the top - this is a pellet of zeolite (I think) desiccant from the lid of a tube of vitamin tablets. - and drilled out the underside to take a piece of wire. The lantern brackets in the kit were unusable so have been replaced by scratch made ones in wire. Once again, the close-up photos starkly show up the shortcomings in my handiwork, so I'm a little embarrassed to share....... Measurements were taken for the replacement glazing and after some sums, a marking template was made from low tack tape and stuck down onto a piece of clear plastic sheet and the corner points (and centre of radius) pricked through with the point of a scriber..... The fold lines were scored with a scalpel blade and the piece removed from the sheet (this one is an early trial piece - it took four goes to get the size right and ends neat)........ The glazing was then folded into a cone. it was held circular in a drawing stencil whilst some glue was run down the join line...... Once reasonably happy that I had a solution to the lantern glazing, I took a razor saw to remove the top and bottom from the kit part.... The base was given some interest using paint and another ball to vaguely represent the oil bath and lamp....... Corner framing was added from polished and varnished 0.4mm brass rod. This was left slightly over long and then trimmed flush with the top of the glazing using a grinding disc.... The lid was then glued on and then everything was painted up. I had problems with gloopy gold paint, but it has not come out too bad.... I'll wait for the paint to dry overnight before popping it onto the stern bracket. The flags are also progressing well, I'll post an update on those shortly. Thank you for reading and your interest, Pat 17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 Fabulous 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patmaquette Posted June 24, 2020 Author Share Posted June 24, 2020 On 22/06/2020 at 21:45, Ex-FAAWAFU said: Fabulous Thank you, Crispin, that's kind of you! 🙂 The trials painting some flags of St George onto brass sheet went reasonably well, so I've gone ahead and done the remaining ones, including some streamers which I've yet to finish so will post about those later on. The banner for Lord Charles Howard of Effingham will be attached to the gaff staff near the taff rail. This necessitated some extra bending of the brass sheet to negotiate around the lateen sail. The banner and the Royal Standard (for the main mast) were made from a single strip (the left one in the photo) and cut off when finished..... The right strip was for a Tudor Rose flag for the mizzen and a larger sized St George flag for the fore mast. These were primered with white Stynylrez and left to dry for a day before some preshading of light grey was airbrushed into the fold shadows (remembering from what direction the light will be falling)..... The main colours were then blocked in with acrylic paints..... And the motifs brushed in freehand, using the 1600's illustration of Ark Royal (allegedly) as a basis...... The banner was the first of the flags to be added to the model. My magnetic clamping arrangement was very helpful for holding the flag in place for gluing..... The flags for the mizzen and bonaventure masts were not so large and could be held in place with Micro Industries Liquitape before setting in place with CA. The lantern mentioned in my last post and some small guns were also fitted...... I'll not attach any further flags until I have done the streamers on the main and fore masts. Many thanks for reading and your interest, Cheers, Pat 17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murdo Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 Superb work on the lantern and flags! Your painting skills are excellent. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Knight Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 3 hours ago, patmaquette said: . . . I'll not attach any further flags until I have done the streamers on the main and fore masts. . . . Pennants, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandsaw Steve Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 I find that ‘amazing’ is an overused word - but not in this case. That lantern and those flags are amazing! This model is just outstanding in every way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdesaxe Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 4 hours ago, patmaquette said: And the motifs brushed in freehand, using the 1600's illustration of Ark Royal (allegedly) as a basis... Those flags are astonishing. Let me guess - your paying job is...fine-art restorer! Maurice 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Knight Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 3 hours ago, mdesaxe said: Those flags are astonishing. Let me guess - your paying job is...fine-art restorer! If he is he ain't Spanish! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patmaquette Posted June 25, 2020 Author Share Posted June 25, 2020 19 hours ago, mdesaxe said: Those flags are astonishing. Let me guess - your paying job is...fine-art restorer! Maurice Thanks for your kind comments everyone, I'm feeling overwhelmed! 🙂 I'm not a fine-art restorer, Maurice, but the idea sounds attractive! I'm a retired engineer and my painting developed through painting model figurines. These days my modelling interests range across lots of subject areas, but I never intended to build a galleon. But I have found it immensely interesting - in large part due to the historical guidance you folks have given me - and going back to the the usual aircraft, ships, vehicles and figurines will all seem a bit bland now. 20 hours ago, Black Knight said: Pennants, 🙂 @Black Knight the terminology for the various types of flags I find somewhat baffling. We have ensigns, standards, banners, pennants/pendants and streamers, plus others. From the treatise on flags that was given earlier, a streamer is defined as "a long and relatively narrow flag flown at sea from the masthead top or yardarm, often reaching down to the water. The earlier name of the modern "pendant". The term is also applied to any ribbon-like flag or decoration". For Pennant it says "a synonym for "streamer", a name which it has gradually replaced". (Confusingly, a pendant is something completely different on a sailing ship, so I think this spelling is best avoided). I have based my pennants on the c1600 illustration and, going by their shape (twin-tailed) and size, are maybe a "guidon" (or geton / gytton), a small swallow-tailed flag? Nevertheless, I'll keep to "pennant"! I would have liked to have made the pennants a lot longer as they do look very dramatic. More like a ship going to a regatta rather than to war. However, I couldn't think of a way to make or paint something so settled on duplicating the shorter ones shown in the c1600 illustration. @Murdo, @Bandsaw Steve I am glad you like it and thank you for your kind words, I'm feeling right chuffed.! Cheers, Pat 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Knight Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 18 hours ago, patmaquette said: @Black Knight the terminology for the various types of flags I find somewhat baffling. We have ensigns, standards, banners, pennants/pendants and streamers, plus others. From the treatise on flags that was given earlier, a streamer is defined as "a long and relatively narrow flag flown at sea from the masthead top or yardarm, often reaching down to the water. The earlier name of the modern "pendant". The term is also applied to any ribbon-like flag or decoration". For Pennant it says "a synonym for "streamer", a name which it has gradually replaced". (Confusingly, a pendant is something completely different on a sailing ship, so I think this spelling is best avoided). I have based my pennants on the c1600 illustration and, going by their shape (twin-tailed) and size, are maybe a "guidon" (or geton / gytton), a small swallow-tailed flag? Nevertheless, I'll keep to "pennant"! I would have liked to have made the pennants a lot longer as they do look very dramatic. More like a ship going to a regatta rather than to war. However, I couldn't think of a way to make or paint something so settled on duplicating the shorter ones shown in the c1600 illustration. aye it confusing. I was informed that a pennant is a long narrow triangular identifying flag, it may or may not have a swallow tail end a streamer is a long narrow flag used for decoration, usually has a pointed end a guidon is usually only used by military units, derived from the banners used by Knights Banneret, the middle ranking of Knights, the knights below him used the pennon - the pennant. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dancona Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 This is a complete masterclass in detail painting and problem solving, with every new post my jaw drops further !! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patmaquette Posted June 27, 2020 Author Share Posted June 27, 2020 10 hours ago, Dancona said: This is a complete masterclass in detail painting and problem solving, with every new post my jaw drops further !! Thank you, @Dancona for your kind words - I'm glad you are finding the build of interest 🙂 On 26/06/2020 at 15:26, Black Knight said: aye it confusing. I was informed that a pennant is a long narrow triangular identifying flag, it may or may not have a swallow tail end a streamer is a long narrow flag used for decoration, usually has a pointed end a guidon is usually only used by military units, derived from the banners used by Knights Banneret, the middle ranking of Knights, the knights below him used the pennon - the pennant. Interesting stuff once again @Black Knight, thank you for that. 👨🎓 Time to work my pennants..... I used the remains of my .003" brass sheet for these. The width was taken from my references, but the length was limited by the size of the sheet. I made a template for swallow tailed pennants as depicted in the c1600 illustration from low-tack masking tape..... Attached this to the sheet, scribed a line around the periphery and cut the flags out. The cut edges were smoothed with abrasive paper and the surfaces cleaned up with a glass fibre scratch pen. Some folds were then made by hand. I tweaked the swallow tails so they touched each other at the free ends and then popped some CA on to stop them flexing too much and causing the paint film to peel off...... All four of the pennants were primered with white Stynylrez and then shaded in the folds with a light grey acrylic mix.... Each design was based on the flag treatise by W P Perrin given earlier by @mdesaxe (thanks again, Maurice) and the c1600 illustration. The pennant on the main top mast is divided into green and white with a cross of St George. The green was painted free hand with acrylics. The shading effects were deepened and smoothed out using oil paint..... The red cross was done simply with decal stripe. This has a gloss finish so will need a matt coat..... The pennant for the main top has six stripes according to the c1600 illustration. I selected red, white and blue for these...... The anchor pennant (which signifies the Lord Admiral) for the foremast top is said in the references to be yellow on red. The lion on the fore top mast looks similar in design to that of the personal arms on Lord Howard's banner, so I made this white on a red background. An orange-red was airbrushed on the flags and shade applied by brush. Oil paints were used once more to finish the job (indeed, the real pennants and flags were oil painted at that time!). The flags were then left to dry for two or three days before being given a light airbrushed coat of enamel matt varnish to provide a tooth for the next stage of painting... I found a design of anchor on-line that seems close to that in the c1600 illustration but having clearer detail. This has an "anchor foul" motif where the anchor is shown with some turns of rope around it. This design was known to be used by Lord Howard in 1601 even though it can't be made out on the c1600 illustration. There is an interesting crown design shown above the anchor which looks similar (as far as can be made out) to that shown in the c1600 illustration that I added as well..... The motifs were edged using oil paint: Paynes grey for the white lion and a mix of Mars brown and Paynes grey for the anchor. I then realised that I had forgotten to edge the Royal Standard and the banner for Lord Howard. Too late to do the latter as it has been installed, but I have done the Royal Standard.... How to attach the pennants to the model? Illustrations show a triangular lanyard arrangement which I duplicated using copper wire. The free ends were sandwiched between a pair of plastic card discs to provide a larger glued area for attaching to the mast tops when the time comes (tomorrow hopefully!). This was attached to the brass sheet by first using Micro Industries Liquitape followed by CA. The wire was propped at the right angle while the glue set. A further piece of wire was added over the joint as reinforcement. To be continued... "The man hath penance done. And penance more will do". (With apologies to) Samuel Taylor Coleridge. 🙂 Cheers, Pat 9 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Knight Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 a the 'crown' above the fouled anchor is probably a ducal coronet b. I think you have a mistake on your royal flag. It should be the same on both sides ie 1st and 4th quarters New France, 2nd and 3rd quarters, gules, three lions etc. The flags were painted and two two pieces of material were sewn together with a small fringe so that the design was the same on both sides. Its very surprising just how heavy these flags were. You have one side 1st and 4th gules, three lions etc, 2nd and 3rd New France 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandsaw Steve Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 Every time I look at this project I just think ‘Wow’... So here I go again... Wow! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Courageous Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 Wow indeed. Stuart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patmaquette Posted June 30, 2020 Author Share Posted June 30, 2020 On 28/06/2020 at 22:30, Black Knight said: a the 'crown' above the fouled anchor is probably a ducal coronet b. I think you have a mistake on your royal flag. It should be the same on both sides ie 1st and 4th quarters New France, 2nd and 3rd quarters, gules, three lions etc. The flags were painted and two two pieces of material were sewn together with a small fringe so that the design was the same on both sides. Its very surprising just how heavy these flags were. You have one side 1st and 4th gules, three lions etc, 2nd and 3rd New France Thank you, @Black Knight. I had assumed that the first quarter was at the top of the hoisted side side of the flag. I have put the New France in this position on both sides. Please have a look at the photos below and let me know if I have indeed made a mistake. If so, I may have to live with it! Unfortunately, I did not see your comment until now. Why, I don't know: I had been watching for any replies and sorry I missed it. Thank you, also, @Bandsaw Steve & @Courageous for your kind words. Attaching the pennants did not turn out to be a simple affair. I found it really difficult to position the flag in amongst the rigging and hold it there while the glue set. In fact I gave up trying until I struck upon an idea next day. A scrap of plastic card was attached with Blu-Tack to a length of plastic sprue. The pennant was held in place against the plastic card with a hair clip and everything adjusted until it was at the right height and angle. The arrangement was then threaded into place between the rigging and sail. Small adjustments were made until the mounting pad for the flag located against the spot I had selected beneath the mast top. Once happy that all was right, the parts were withdrawn enough for CA to be applied and then slid back into place and left a generous amount of time to set. The flags on the mast heads were a little easier to install..... I am very pleased with the result..... I'll now work on the crew. Not a job I have been looking forward to and have been putting it off! It will probably be a long slog so it will be a while before I post anything further. Thanks for looking, everyone. Any thoughts and comments are welcomed! I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the Royal Standard is correct! Cheers, Pat 10 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatalbert Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 Wow 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 I know nothing about ships at all, but this thread has been not only an education, but also a display of great modelling, and problem solving skills! She's absolutely gorgeous! Ian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Knight Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 1 hour ago, patmaquette said: Thank you, @Black Knight. I had assumed that the first quarter was at the top of the hoisted side side of the flag. I have put the New France in this position on both sides. Please have a look at the photos below and let me know if I have indeed made a mistake. If so, I may have to live with it! I'll now work on the crew. Not a job I have been looking forward to and have been putting it off! It will probably be a long slog so it will be a while before I post anything further. Thanks for looking, everyone. Any thoughts and comments are welcomed! I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the Royal Standard is correct! Unfortunately, yes its wrong. It goes back to Edward III. He claimed the throne of France through his mother Isobel. As France was a larger and more important kingdom than l'ill ole England Eddy put the arms of Old (Ancient) France (basically an azure field covered in lots of fluers de lys or), in the 1st quarter of the quartering, then when France changed the design to that on your standard (New, or Moderne France) (about 1380 afair) Henry IV changed it on his Royal Standard and it remained that way until James I / VI afair, when the flag got all messy with the Scots Lion being added and quarterings of the quarterings Whatever is in the 1st quarter is the main preference, by quartering and countering Eddy III was saying I'm King of France foremost but I'm also King of England. As for the crew, almost all, including the officers went bare footed and bare legged up to the knee almost all the time at sea. Although you may wish to give your h'officers boots and shoes 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patmaquette Posted June 30, 2020 Author Share Posted June 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Black Knight said: Whatever is in the 1st quarter is the main preference, by quartering and countering Eddy III was saying I'm King of France foremost but I'm also King of England. Thank you again, @Black Knight. I took it as being like the USA stars & stripes, where the stars are in the top quarter on the hoisted side of the flag on both front and back. For the Royal Standard, the New French badges are top left and bottom right on both faces of the flag. I may have got away with it if the error was on the "blind" side of my model (which is viewed from one side only), unfortunately it is not. I'd probably destroy the flag if I try and reverse it to get the viewed side correct. I'll need to scratch my head for a while to decide what to do. 🤔 Would the situation be the same for Lord Howard's banner? Thank you again for making me aware of the mistake. 👍 Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Knight Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 1 hour ago, patmaquette said: . . . Would the situation be the same for Lord Howard's banner? yes. But its so curled around the sail you can't see much of one side 1 hour ago, patmaquette said: . . . Thank you again for making me aware of the mistake. 👍 only trying to be helpful If we don't catch it now someone, a visitor to the museum maybe, will see it and rip your work apart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patmaquette Posted July 1, 2020 Author Share Posted July 1, 2020 On 28/06/2020 at 22:30, Black Knight said: I think you have a mistake on your royal flag. It should be the same on both sides ie 1st and 4th quarters New France, 2nd and 3rd quarters, gules, three lions etc. The flags were painted and two two pieces of material were sewn together with a small fringe so that the design was the same on both sides. Its very surprising just how heavy these flags were. You have one side 1st and 4th gules, three lions etc, 2nd and 3rd New France Thank you once again for pointing that out to me, @Black Knight. To remove the flag for repair, I decided to split it where the flag pole attaches to the Main Top Gallant mast using a pair of cutters...... Although the flag appeared well attached to the pole when it was still on the model, I found I could now actually peel away the pole from the flag, taking care owing to the extremely brittle nature of the Airfix plastic...... The flag was attached to a lolly stick with a blob of Blu-Tack and the errant side of the flag airbrushed with white Synylrez primer to cover over the old paintwork. The blue and red fields were brushed in using Vallejo acrylics. Medium blue and orange-red mixes were used. A couple of coats were sufficient..... A shade tone for the blue was made by adding some Dark Prussian blue with a dash of orange to the mix. Orange is the complementary colour to blue and adding this to the mix darkens and desaturates the blue, ideal for shadows. In a similar way, a darker red was made by adding a dark crimson along with a dash of green. These were brushed onto the flag in the recesses of the folds...... The various badges were marked out in white acrylic. First of all the three fleur-de-lys in each blue field...... Work started on filling these out and marking lines added for the three lions on each red field. A vertical line for the shoulders, then some dots at their rear ends, followed by curved lines from the shoulders along the back and to the dot at the rear end...... Work continued in developing the forms and laying down a uniform layer of white undercoat..... These were then given a coat of Sand Yellow..... Yellow ochre shadows were then added to the folds..... Each badge was then outlined using a mix of Paynes grey and Mars brown oil paints with a little Odourless thinners added. The brush was dipped into the paint on the palette and then stroked onto the piece of masking tape stuck on my thumb to remove excess paint and draw the hairs of the brush to a narrow, chisel edge. The line was then drawn along the motif using the narrow edge..... I'll leave that to dry for at least 24 hours before handling it. Many thanks for reading. Any comments or questions are most welcome! Cheers, Pat 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Knight Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 Most excellent repainting You'll be much happier to have it correct 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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