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Hi all,

 

I've been struggling lately with aftermarket parts for some of the model ships in the stash awaiting to be built. 

 

While I'm aware there are certain aftermarket bits available for these ships, there seems to be multiple of the same thing by different brands, plus other bits and pieces from other manufacturers available in different places all for the same ship. As a result, finding the best parts for the best price which are currently available is confusing and time consuming.

 

What I'm looking for is a comprehensive list or a place which stocks everything I need to complete each ship. (I don't want to buy 6 different things from 6 different sites for example). This includes any PE, wooden decks, brass, rigging, resin blast bags, white metal & searchlights. 

 

In the stash I have the following kits;

 

Academy 1/350 HMS Warspite

Trumpeter 1/350 HMS Hood

Trumpeter 1/350 HMS Dreadnought 1915

Hobby Boss 1/350 USS Arizona

Trumpeter 1/200 HMS Nelson

 

I am aware that Pontos provide upgrade sets for the 1/350 Warspite & Nelson, but is there anything else you need to complete them?

 

If somebody out there can help compile a list of upgrades for each ship and where to get them (preferably all together), then it would be greatly appreciated. 

 

Edited by ArtickWarspite
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The Warspite and Nelson are best served by Pontos, which contain everything except rigging line.

 

Unfortunately Pontos' Dreadnought set is designed for Zvezda rather than Trumpeter so I don't have the answer there. As a result I actually have two Dreadnought kits now!

 

HMS Hood is not completely served by any detail set. I ended up using Flyhawk's detail set and turret sets which are nice and the most complete, but still incomplete, topped up with White Ensign's set which provided the noticeably missing parts. I used Pontos' wooden deck for that.

 

Arizona - not a clue I'm afraid :)

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15 hours ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

The Warspite and Nelson are best served by Pontos, which contain everything except rigging line.

 

Unfortunately Pontos' Dreadnought set is designed for Zvezda rather than Trumpeter so I don't have the answer there. As a result I actually have two Dreadnought kits now!

 

HMS Hood is not completely served by any detail set. I ended up using Flyhawk's detail set and turret sets which are nice and the most complete, but still incomplete, topped up with White Ensign's set which provided the noticeably missing parts. I used Pontos' wooden deck for that.

 

Arizona - not a clue I'm afraid :)

Thanks Jamie,

 

I've continued searching around on these kits and have found the following items:

 

Trumpeter HMS Hood 

TRU 06601 Barrels & Props (forgot that Trumpeter actually make this set)

White Ensign 35014 Full PE set

KA Models Wooden Deck

Big Blue Boy upgrade set with 14 PE frets, resin blast bags, & brass barrels

Artworx Decking 

 

Hobby Boss USS Arizona

Lion Roar PE set with brass barrels & resin blast bags

Eduard Full PE set (more detailed PE but no railings)

Eduard Full Railing set (separate to full set)

Artworx decking

 

Trumpeter HMS Dreadnought 1915

White Ensign PE set (for Zvezda kit, but most parts are compatible)

White Ensign Aerials (those round things the rigging runs through)

Artworx Decking

 

Too bad all the upgrades are available for the Zvezda kit, when Trumpeter have done 3 different versions of it the Dreadnought.

 

Having built the Trumpeter 1907 Dreadnought, the plastic masts were really flimsy. I guess brass masts are only available through sets like Pontos?

 

It appears most of these upgrade sets (with the exception of Pontos) are not quite fully complete. It's a shame they don't make full upgrade kits for all shiips- it would be so much easier to figure out what to buy...

 

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The complete sets are great but they're always hampered by a substantial proportion of the market harbouring this bizarre notion that the basic plastic kit must constitute the majority of the total cost of the final model. They don't see a £100 Pontos set for a £50 kit as being a comprehensive and very well researched project which needs a donor kit to use the bigger plastic bits from, they see it as an abhorrent rip off that's ruining their hobby. Or something...

 

As for Hood in particular - I'd suggest Flyhawk over BBB and the reason for that is that Trumpeter really botched the turrets on that kit. WEM used to make resin turrets which are no longer available. Flyhawk makes a very nice set which comes with better UP launchers too. Lastly there are 3D printed options which are very nice, but very expensive.

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Actually, while I'm thinking about it @Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies, in regards to the HMS Nelson, the Trumpeter 1/200 kit comes with the paint diagram for the 1944 version with the blue rectangle running down the hull. 

What is the correct scheme & colours for the 1943(?) version? It's the green & white wavy one I'd want to use. There appears to be a few different variations around the place and considering the time & monetary this investment will ultimately cost, I'd like it to at least be correctly painted.

 

By the way, thanks again for the earlier clarification on the RN Dark & light grey. It's been a great help!

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3 hours ago, ArtickWarspite said:

Actually, while I'm thinking about it @Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies, in regards to the HMS Nelson, the Trumpeter 1/200 kit comes with the paint diagram for the 1944 version with the blue rectangle running down the hull. 

What is the correct scheme & colours for the 1943(?) version? It's the green & white wavy one I'd want to use. There appears to be a few different variations around the place and considering the time & monetary this investment will ultimately cost, I'd like it to at least be correctly painted.

 

By the way, thanks again for the earlier clarification on the RN Dark & light grey. It's been a great help!

 

These are by no means finished, and these drafts feature other peoples' names who have been helping so please treat these as a work in progress particularly for Richard, Sean, Michael and Lindsay.

 

In 1941 HMS Nelson was wearing bog-standard overall Home Fleet Grey

f4a04228-7772-4887-8c83-4584e741eb71.png

 

Leaving refit in 1942, she was wearing the disruptive pattern design. Whilst it evolved a bit, this is the only disruptive pattern she wore. We're reasonably happy with how she appeared in 1942.

70b6b593-ed6a-4ba1-95f5-c784b5ff0e3b.png

 

We're not finished with how she appeared through 1943 and into 1944. There are some noted changes, but we only have date windows when they may have happened within. We're not sure we've got them all - this version has had the least scrutiny to date:

b893670b-7e09-4c6f-8747-2a70fe4c4949.png

 

Later in 1944 she went to Boston USA for refit, gaining new platforms with 40mm Bofors etc. She wore the above scheme going in to Boston and when she recommissioned heading out in January 1945 she was wearing the new standard Scheme A:

fe2715ac-d05f-4ba5-b8c8-25eb84791784.png

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Jamie,

 

Those are very useful diagrams. 

 

I've been going through the FAA aircrew photograph albums that I own and I have several 1942/43 photos of Nelson that could help you (showing both starboard and port).  One is a small, but high quality, port side view that came with a  album compiled by a FAA Fairey Albacore pilot from Indomitable (probably around the time of Pedestal as the album ends with Indomitable being bombed).   Another is of the starboard side taken from Rodney around the time of Pedestal and looks to be private photo, possibly taken at Gibraltar.  The clearest is a medium format photo taken by aircrew, which is undated, but probably 1942 and is taken from above on the port side.  In addition, I have a collection of Formidable photos from 1942/3,  showing Formidable and Nelson (from both port and starboard). These are annotated January 1943 and look to be ships' photos sold on board, so I guess you may have seen them already. I've also a starboard bow photo of Nelson taken from the deck of Victorious (again 1943, judging by the Seafires on deck).

 

I think that the 1942 photos show that there are more areas of  the lightest colour (507c) than you have in the diagram and the on the port side, the area on the bow that is drawn as B15, looks to me as if it could be the darkest colour (MS1).  Your diagram looks more like the 1943 photos I have, where there are less areas of very light colour.

 

I've scanned them at 600 dpi, so if you message me your email address I'll pass them on (on the understanding that the Pedestal ones are not for sharing as I may want to use them in future publications - I don't care about the others). 

 

IG

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31 minutes ago, iang said:

Jamie,

 

Those are very useful diagrams. 

 

I've been going through the FAA aircrew photograph albums that I own and I have several 1942/43 photos of Nelson that could help you (showing both starboard and port).  One is a small, but high quality, port side view that came with a  album compiled by a FAA Fairey Albacore pilot from Indomitable (probably around the time of Pedestal as the album ends with Indomitable being bombed).   Another is of the starboard side taken from Rodney around the time of Pedestal and looks to be private photo, possibly taken at Gibraltar.  The clearest is a medium format photo taken by aircrew, which is undated, but probably 1942 and is taken from above on the port side.  In addition, I have a collection of Formidable photos from 1942/3,  showing Formidable and Nelson (from both port and starboard). These are annotated January 1943 and look to be ships' photos sold on board, so I guess you may have seen them already. I've also a starboard bow photo of Nelson taken from the deck of Victorious (again 1943, judging by the Seafires on deck).

 

I think that the 1942 photos show that there are more areas of  the lightest colour (507c) than you have in the diagram and the on the port side, the area on the bow that is drawn as B15, looks to me as if it could be the darkest colour (MS1).  Your diagram looks more like the 1943 photos I have, where there are less areas of very light colour.

 

I've scanned them at 600 dpi, so if you message me your email address I'll pass them on (on the understanding that the Pedestal ones are not for sharing as I may want to use them in future publications - I don't care about the others). 

 

IG

 

Thank you Ian, PM sent. Nelson seems a little less well photographed (clear images certainly) than Rodney, so these will be great particularly if there's some degree of certainty on the dates they were taken. :D

 

Message understood about the Pedestal images. Would you consent to them being shared and discussed with @dickrd on the same proviso? I'll vouch for Richard's integrity in this regard.

 

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14 hours ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

 

These are by no means finished, and these drafts feature other peoples' names who have been helping so please treat these as a work in progress particularly for Richard, Sean, Michael and Lindsay.

 

In 1941 HMS Nelson was wearing bog-standard overall Home Fleet Grey

f4a04228-7772-4887-8c83-4584e741eb71.png

 

Leaving refit in 1942, she was wearing the disruptive pattern design. Whilst it evolved a bit, this is the only disruptive pattern she wore. We're reasonably happy with how she appeared in 1942.

70b6b593-ed6a-4ba1-95f5-c784b5ff0e3b.png

 

We're not finished with how she appeared through 1943 and into 1944. There are some noted changes, but we only have date windows when they may have happened within. We're not sure we've got them all - this version has had the least scrutiny to date:

b893670b-7e09-4c6f-8747-2a70fe4c4949.png

 

Later in 1944 she went to Boston USA for refit, gaining new platforms with 40mm Bofors etc. She wore the above scheme going in to Boston and when she recommissioned heading out in January 1945 she was wearing the new standard Scheme A:

fe2715ac-d05f-4ba5-b8c8-25eb84791784.png

Thanks Jamie, comprehensive as always. Your detailed answers are always very much appreciated. 

 

Going back to the kit, the Nelson went in for refit in late 1944 wearing the disruptive scheme, and emerged in 1945 wearing the Scheme A with the blue rectangle? So the Trumpeter kit is the 1944 version with the paint scheme from 1945. Considering the job they did on their 1/350 Warspite paint chart, this sounds about right... 

 

So by rights, the kit modelled by Trumpeter & subsequently Pontos would be the 1944 version before the late 1944 Boston refit? 

 

What colour would the deck have been during this period? Can't image it was unpainted teak throughout her career..

 

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, ArtickWarspite said:

What colour would the deck have been during this period? Can't image it was unpainted teak throughout her career..

I have not a single picture of Nelson showing camouflage on her decks, and many with none. Can't say for sure if they haven't darkened the decks at some time...

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15 hours ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

Hi, The Trumpeter Nelson has the 40mm Bofors and their respective platforms installed so I think it is in 1945 fit :)

Thanks, makes sense. In future I'll refer to the kit as the 1/200 Trumpeter HMS Nelson 1945 version. :P

 

In the mean time, I hope to be starting the Academy 1/350 Warspite in the coming days (with Pontos set). I'll be following your recommendation on the 507A & 507C paint guide. 

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11 hours ago, foeth said:

I have not a single picture of Nelson showing camouflage on her decks, and many with none. Can't say for sure if they haven't darkened the decks at some time...

Yeah I'm not sure either, though it seems to be generally accepted that it was unpainted- which is fine as I'd prefer it that way. Compared with a painted camouflage deck it adds a nice point of interest with a bit more colour. All of the colourised images I can find all point to an unpainted deck.

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B&W aerial photos of Nelson in 1942 in her disruptive scheme show her wooden decks were darkened and colour film taken on board at that time shows they were painted a dark grey. The question is how long into 1943 did this painting last before it was worn/cleaned off.

 

When Nelson emerged from her refit at New York Navy Yard in January 1945 in Standard Scheme A various B&W aerial photos appear to show her decks had been darkened again and the working assumption is that this time they were painted a blue as per USN practice. Again it is unclear how long this lasted.

 

Colourised photos are a joke. 

 

   

Edited by dickrd
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16 hours ago, dickrd said:

B&W aerial photos of Nelson in 1942 in her disruptive scheme show her wooden decks were darkened and colour film taken on board at that time shows they were painted a dark grey. The question is how long into 1943 did this painting last before it was worn/cleaned off.

 

When Nelson emerged from her refit at New York Navy Yard in January 1945 in Standard Scheme A various B&W aerial photos appear to show her decks had been darkened again and the working assumption is that this time they were painted a blue as per USN practice. Again it is unclear how long this lasted.

 

Colourised photos are a joke. 

 

   

Thanks for that. I did not know the deck was painted dark grey- I have not seen any photos to suggest that. Must not be looking hard enough..

 

So once the paint wore off, the deck was left as is until it's late war refit?

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 7/8/2019 at 6:42 PM, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

 

These are by no means finished, and these drafts feature other peoples' names who have been helping so please treat these as a work in progress particularly for Richard, Sean, Michael and Lindsay.

 

In 1941 HMS Nelson was wearing bog-standard overall Home Fleet Grey

f4a04228-7772-4887-8c83-4584e741eb71.png

 

Leaving refit in 1942, she was wearing the disruptive pattern design. Whilst it evolved a bit, this is the only disruptive pattern she wore. We're reasonably happy with how she appeared in 1942.

70b6b593-ed6a-4ba1-95f5-c784b5ff0e3b.png

 

We're not finished with how she appeared through 1943 and into 1944. There are some noted changes, but we only have date windows when they may have happened within. We're not sure we've got them all - this version has had the least scrutiny to date:

b893670b-7e09-4c6f-8747-2a70fe4c4949.png

 

Later in 1944 she went to Boston USA for refit, gaining new platforms with 40mm Bofors etc. She wore the above scheme going in to Boston and when she recommissioned heading out in January 1945 she was wearing the new standard Scheme A:

fe2715ac-d05f-4ba5-b8c8-25eb84791784.png

@Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies I've lifted the lid and started work on this 1/200 HMS Nelson. Unfortunately, being down here in New Zealand means I can't access the colour coats paints. It pains me to ask this, but are there any other colours or mixes that you would recommend for the 1944 version?

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Hi,

 

Creative Models Australia assure me they can reach New Zealand through proper means and they're due to place their order any time about now.

 

Without meaning to sound obtuse, I haven't really invested any effort whatsoever in trying to replicate the colours using competitors' products. It's surprisingly time consuming since almost all paints either lighten or darken as they dry so it's quite a loop to go round with each trial recording what you've done, letting it dry, comparing then starting again (adding to a wet batch is difficult because you never know what you've ended up with since you're using samples from it as you go and subsequent tints have less and less of the original in it as you use it up sampling).

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On ‎7‎/‎2‎/‎2019 at 11:01 PM, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

The complete sets are great but they're always hampered by a substantial proportion of the market harbouring this bizarre notion that the basic plastic kit must constitute the majority of the total cost of the final model. They don't see a £100 Pontos set for a £50 kit as being a comprehensive and very well researched project which needs a donor kit to use the bigger plastic bits from, they see it as an abhorrent rip off that's ruining their hobby. Or something...

Apologies for the late response to this comment , but I've only just seen the topic .  I simply cannot understand the attitude Jamie mentions above - how can more & better items being available ever be in any way bad for the hobby , even if they are expensive .  To those who feel this way , all I can say is if you don't like it , don't buy it & never suggest there's anything wrong with those who do .  I have to admit that I personally would never buy one of those Pontos sets , but that's only because I'm only an occasional ship modeler & have a total lack of skill when it comes to photoetch , so such a quality product would be wasted on someone so utterly cack-handed as me .

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15 hours ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

Hi,

 

Creative Models Australia assure me they can reach New Zealand through proper means and they're due to place their order any time about now.

 

Without meaning to sound obtuse, I haven't really invested any effort whatsoever in trying to replicate the colours using competitors' products. It's surprisingly time consuming since almost all paints either lighten or darken as they dry so it's quite a loop to go round with each trial recording what you've done, letting it dry, comparing then starting again (adding to a wet batch is difficult because you never know what you've ended up with since you're using samples from it as you go and subsequent tints have less and less of the original in it as you use it up sampling).

Thanks, I will check them out and see where we go from there. 

 

I guess to ask that question in a different way would have been before you used Colour Coats, what brands did you use for your RN ships. That probably would have been a less offensive way to ask. Sorry about that.

 

Looking around, there are very few RN colours in many mainstream paint brands. 

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10 hours ago, ArtickWarspite said:

Thanks, I will check them out and see where we go from there. 

 

I guess to ask that question in a different way would have been before you used Colour Coats, what brands did you use for your RN ships. That probably would have been a less offensive way to ask. Sorry about that.

 

Looking around, there are very few RN colours in many mainstream paint brands. 

 

Hi,

 

Before Colourcoats I used Humbrol and painted everything H64 like an ignoramous! I bought Colourcoats from WEM's liquidators having "re-found" myself after some severe frustrations with a few acrylics. I actually got on well with Polyscale back in the mid 1990s but when they ceased to be I was unable to find something that gave consistent results. At the time I assumed Colourcoats were accurate w.r.t. Royal Navy paints. They certainly had the best credentials. It was only after engaging with some experts like Richard above ( @dickrd ) and Evert Jan (whom I can't tag??) that I learned that there were issues. As far as I can tell, all other brands offering Royal Navy specific paints in one way are another are based upon the Snyder and Short chips which do have some inaccuracies. Modern technology in the form of easy global communication with others interested in the same subject as well as being able to objectively measure and compare colours to period data that until recently required very expensive and decidedly non-portable equipment and extended hand calculations has made it possible to improve in subtle but important ways.

 

Colourcoats as of 2016, and all other brands currently all share the issues with Snyder & Short;

 

507A too dark, not bluish enough

507B misidentified

507C too light, not bluish enough

MS1 ok

MS2 too light

MS3 too light

MS4 coffee coloured, should be near-neutral

MS4A much too dark, greenish - should be lighter than 507C and neutral

B5 misidentified and too light, should be stronger ultramarine blue

B6 too light, greenish and shouldn't be

G10 different colour to 507A / B and shouldn't be

G45 coffee / khaki colour (should be same as 507C)

B15 okayish

B20 not okayish, wrong tone, quite greenish

B30 very greenish, too light

B55 too dark

 

Most aren't disasterous on their own, but when put together in camouflage schemes they just don't really work.

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13 hours ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

 

Hi,

 

Before Colourcoats I used Humbrol and painted everything H64 like an ignoramous! I bought Colourcoats from WEM's liquidators having "re-found" myself after some severe frustrations with a few acrylics. I actually got on well with Polyscale back in the mid 1990s but when they ceased to be I was unable to find something that gave consistent results. At the time I assumed Colourcoats were accurate w.r.t. Royal Navy paints. They certainly had the best credentials. It was only after engaging with some experts like Richard above ( @dickrd ) and Evert Jan (whom I can't tag??) that I learned that there were issues. As far as I can tell, all other brands offering Royal Navy specific paints in one way are another are based upon the Snyder and Short chips which do have some inaccuracies. Modern technology in the form of easy global communication with others interested in the same subject as well as being able to objectively measure and compare colours to period data that until recently required very expensive and decidedly non-portable equipment and extended hand calculations has made it possible to improve in subtle but important ways.

 

Colourcoats as of 2016, and all other brands currently all share the issues with Snyder & Short;

 

507A too dark, not bluish enough

507B misidentified

507C too light, not bluish enough

MS1 ok

MS2 too light

MS3 too light

MS4 coffee coloured, should be near-neutral

MS4A much too dark, greenish - should be lighter than 507C and neutral

B5 misidentified and too light, should be stronger ultramarine blue

B6 too light, greenish and shouldn't be

G10 different colour to 507A / B and shouldn't be

G45 coffee / khaki colour (should be same as 507C)

B15 okayish

B20 not okayish, wrong tone, quite greenish

B30 very greenish, too light

B55 too dark

 

Most aren't disasterous on their own, but when put together in camouflage schemes they just don't really work.

Thanks Jamie, 

 

Hopefully it won't come to me having to mix the colours to get them looking as correct as possible, but if it does then you've armed me with plenty of information to have a decent crack at it.

 

I have checked out Creative Models, but ALL their RN paints appear to be out of stock and on order. Hopefully they will be restocked soon. 

 

Now that I've started the Nelson kit, it's still going to be some time until any of it is ready for painting, so hopefully a resolution can be found before that time comes. Once the Pontos set arrives, I'll be swimming in brass for a time yet..

 

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