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Bronzebeard

HMS Cossack. Which kit?

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Here I am again, this time asking advice from the ship builders. I would like to get HMS Cossack in honour of my Grandad who served on Cossack and was on board when it sunk having to stay afloat for over two hours before rescued. 

My question is, which kit to buy? I've seen airfix and aeroplast versions on Ebay and around the same price. Any and all advice from my brothers and sisters of the sprue is welcomed.

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What scale?  The Airfix is 1/600 and very old. There is a more modern Trumpeter kit - sold as Eskimo and Zulu - which is 1/700 and considerably superior.  White Ensign did a resin Cossack in 1/700 which may still be available but will require more skill.  I'm ignoring smaller scale kits.  Possibly Frog did one in 1/500 but I'm not sure about that.  The most common larger scale nowadays is 1/350 but I don't know about that.  However I'm pretty sue that there will be one a available and that it will recent and good.

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28 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

 Possibly Frog did one in 1/500 but I'm not sure about that.

HMS Ashanti.  Maybe marginally better than the Airfix 1/600 but not much in it: both of a similar vintage.

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Trumpeter did kits of HMCS Huron, HMS Eskimo, and HMS Zulu in 1/350. They aren't terribly expensive and a tribal class destroyer is very small in 1/700.

 

According to this thread on the ModelWarships forum, HMS Eskimo might be the best starting point for a conversion. There are detail differences to the Cossack

 

http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=35073&start=180

 

Here's a service history of the ship

 

http://www.naval-history.net/xGM-Chrono-10DD-34Tribal-HMS_Cossack1.htm

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The Aeroplast is 1/600 so I very much expect it to be the Airfix tooling revisited.

 

PS here is a list of 1/350 scale Tribals

https://www.scalemates.com/search.php?q="Destroyer Tribal-Class" 1:350&fkSECTION[]=Kits

 

To extend the list:

Revell did a Tribal in 1/720 to go with their Ark Royal kit, now somewhat elderly.

Eagle did a Cossack/Tribal in 1/1200 in the late 50s, Airfix did a rather superior one in the same scale somewhat later but still a long time ago.

I strongly suspect there are ones in 1/1250 but leave it to others to search them out.

There are wargaming ship kits in even smaller scales, but these tend to arrive and disappear almost without trace...

Edited by Graham Boak

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On 7/1/2019 at 3:29 PM, Bronzebeard said:

Here I am again, this time asking advice from the ship builders. I would like to get HMS Cossack in honour of my Grandad who served on Cossack and was on board when it sunk having to stay afloat for over two hours before rescued. 

My question is, which kit to buy? I've seen airfix and aeroplast versions on Ebay and around the same price. Any and all advice from my brothers and sisters of the sprue is welcomed.

Not questioning your Grandad's honour or service, but the accounts of the Cossack's loss indicate the ship was abandoned after the torpedo hit then reboarded and taken in tow. She sank 4 days later after the surviving crew had transferred to HM Corvette Jonquil

 

                        23rd              Under attacks by submarines of BRESLAU Group during

                                               which ship was hit by torpedo from U563 in position

                                               35.36N  10.04W whilst stationed astern of convoy.

                                               Structure forward of bridge demolished killing the

                                               Captain and 158 of ship’s company. Survivors abandoned

                                               ship which remained afloat.

                                               Later ship survivors returned and carried out extensive

                                              damage control to enable stern way until HM Tug

                                               THAMES arrived to take ship in tow to Gibraltar with

                                                escort by HM Corvette JONQUIL

                          27th               Weather worsened and personnel taken on board HMS

                                                 JONQUIL before ship sank at 1043 in position 35.12N

                                                 08.17W.

                                                 See above references and AFRIDI TO NIZAM by J

                                                 English..

 

http://www.naval-history.net/xGM-Chrono-10DD-34Tribal-HMS_Cossack1.htm

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May have been when the ship was abandoned then. My history is a bit sketchy. The cossack association says he was picked up by HMS Legion and transferred to Victory via HMS Rodney. I also have the newspaper article. How does one insert a photo into these posts?

Edited by Bronzebeard

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On ‎01‎/‎07‎/‎2019 at 21:05, Bronzebeard said:

A Trumpeter may be converted to Cossack then? Were all tribal class destroyers built the same?

Whilst they will be broadly the same, no 2 ships in a class will ever be identical.  building warships is not like turning our Spitfires or T34s on a production line.  So the key thing with nay ship build is research.  You also have to recognise that ships are refitted as they go through their lives so if you wish to represent her as she was when your Grandfather was on board, you need to ensure that your references are from that period.  That is where we often suffer from information overload these days but not all of it correct (I've just done a quick Google search and pulled up over 200 images of HMS COSSACK and of the dozen of so of the ones I opened I spotted potential errors in their captions in at least 30-40%.  I'm no expert on Tribal class destroyers but fortunately there is a wealth of knowledge on here.

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It can all get a bit overwhelming very quickly. For me I'm certain now that it has to be an intended cossack kit. Converting another ship although I could potentially have a great looking model, accurate to the best of my abilities, deep down I'll know the kit wasnt cossack. Might seem daft but it's quite personal so therefore has to feel right. I'm quite taken with the idea of getting the aeroplast version with the atlantic models PE set for extra detail. Im not an experienced modeller and haven't used PE so far. I'll be posting again when a decision is made and need to ask the forum about paints etc. (I.e. open a big can of worms!)

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Not daft, no, but you are overlooking the distinct possibility that just because a kit is labelled as "Cossack" that does not mean that the contents are anything more than a generic Tribal.  Which may or may not match the fit of Cossack herself at some specific time.  I would trust the WEM/Atlantic material above any other, but suspect that any generic Tribal kit will probably be based on the prewar standard, and would match Cossack herself in this period fairly well.

 

The devil is in the details, especially in the changes to the detail fit of different ships at different times and the differences in the quality of the various kits, 

 

As for colours, look to Sovereign Hobbies Colourcoats.  There are two recent threads here in which Jamie of SH has posted colour charts of the colours in use by the RN at different times.  He has done a lot of research into  these colours - have considerable suspicion about earlier references!

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28 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

Not daft, no, but you are overlooking the distinct possibility that just because a kit is labelled as "Cossack" that does not mean that the contents are anything more than a generic Tribal.  Which may or may not match the fit of Cossack herself at some specific time.  I would trust the WEM/Atlantic material above any other, but suspect that any generic Tribal kit will probably be based on the prewar standard, and would match Cossack herself in this period fairly well.

 

The devil is in the details, especially in the changes to the detail fit of different ships at different times and the differences in the quality of the various kits, 

 

As for colours, look to Sovereign Hobbies Colourcoats.  There are two recent threads here in which Jamie of SH has posted colour charts of the colours in use by the RN at different times.  He has done a lot of research into  these colours - have considerable suspicion about earlier references!

Thanks Graham. Much to consider and all advice is gratefully recieved. When I start on this build I'm sure it will be interesting to see how it all pans out.

Edited by Bronzebeard

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2 hours ago, Bronzebeard said:

Might seem daft but it's quite personal so therefore has to feel right.

Gidday Bronzebeard, there's nothing daft about it at all. I think your dedication for accuracy is quite understandable and commendable. As for Cossack kits I've only done Airfix's 1/600 scale kit. I think it is quite basic, but as I've not done any other I can't compare it. The hull I believe is molded about 4mm too thick, comparing it with line drawings, plus the pompom and torpedo tubes are very crude. The incorrect depth of hull affects the angle of the prop shafts but that is easily fixed. If you're planning on waterlining the model then these aren't an issue. HTH. Regards, Jeff.

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3 hours ago, Bronzebeard said:

Thanks Graham. Much to consider and all advice is gratefully recieved. When I start on this build I'm sure it will be interesting to see how it all pans out.

Another way to approach things would be to buy a kit of a different ship and use that for practice before tackling Cossack? That way you get experience and avoids the pressure of having to get things right first time; i.e. if you do make a mistake at least it would be on that model rather than the Cossack one.

 

Mike.

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If it helps the Original Poster - HIGHLY recommend he gets the 1/350 Trumpeter Kit

http://bowemodels.blogspot.com/2017/09/trumpeter-1350-hms-eskimo-as-hms-cossack.html

 

- if you have any questions please ask ( F03 was her 1939 to 1940 Pennant Number  ) - note

there is a You Tube video of her just after the Altmark Incident

its a great thing for looking at fine detail ( artistic license was made by having the pennant as it depicts 2nd Battle of Narvik

and its not certain she had the Pennant added or not

Finely - get PROFILE WARSHIP ( 1971 ) of HMS Cossack

which details the full changes made to her - its a great resource

 

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