# Not a TOPGUN GWH Mig-29 ...but a regular one # FINISHED #

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

19 minutes ago, Aardvark said:

Dennis I don't understand You reaction.

Ok Im confused Serge ? I wasn't trying to imply any negative reactions. I was in my own personal odd way trying to thank you.  I 'm thinking it came across wrong ? Please accept apologies as that wasn't my intention.

     Im not the best when it comes to expressing my thoughts non-verbally, as i have a mediocre education in english. Ironic considering im American, but the public education system here is a laughable joke. I say that even having two teachers related to me.  

 

Dennis

Edited July 5, 2019 by Corsairfoxfouruncle

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

24 minutes ago, Aardvark said:

To some extent, now, I regret writing my post in this topic.

Please don't think that, i actually do like learning about Russian/Soviet equipment when reading your posts. You made a point about this in a post a few days ago about the lack of knowledge in the west about this and the unwillingness of people/experts to utilize the information on Russian internet forums ? I 110% agree and do try to get thorough research on my subjects myself. Ive tried to build a number of aircraft operated by the USSR in WW2. Mostly Bell aircraft but also a Hurricane. I am planning on multiple LaGG and early Mig aircraft in the future. 

 

Dennis

Edited July 5, 2019 by Corsairfoxfouruncle

[modelling minion]

I think that we have all enjoyed reading your posts Serge, even if they contradict our ideas about what is suitable for this GB, and we have certainly all learned a lot about the Soviet use of the Mig-29!

Unfortunately though Georgia is outside of the geographic limits of this GB so that option is out.

[Aardvark]

44 minutes ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Please accept apologies as that wasn't my intention.

Don't mention! Forget! 

I'm incorrect translate You posting. My apologies.

46 minutes ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Please don't think that

Why?

 The problem is as follows.

On the one hand, this GB will not build a sufficiently spectacular MiG-29 Soviet Aggressor, this is bad, because all these rules are nothing more than a convention into which we drive ourselves.

 

 But on the other hand, if I am one of the few Russian-speaking people who are trying to write here, this does not mean that other Russians modeller do not read the posts on Britmodeller and other West site. And among these Russian modellers there are both former and current Air Force pilots. And imagine their perplexity when they see how West modellers do what could never be physically on Soviet/post-Soviet aircraft, tank e.t.c.

I agree, formally this is a recount of rivet and perfectionism, but probably many Western modellers will also be at a loss when they see the inscription "КалiхфорЪнia" instead of F-16 "California" ANG or УСС "Жора Бушев"* instead of USS "George Bush" on F-18  made by the Russian modeller.

Funny? 

But in Russian segment model internet West stencil "Фор зе мать-Рашша" ("For the mat Russia") it has become an internet meme.

Probably subconsciously this is my real motivation and not the desire to look like a "mega-expert" here.

1 hour ago, modelling minion said:

Unfortunately though Georgia is outside of the geographic limits of this GB so that option is out.

O.K. All MiG-29 9-12 Soviet AF unit based on territory USSR from 1983 to 1992:

Partial translation will be later. 

 

B.R.

Serge

 

_____________

*  - but I would not be surprised if such an stencil  appears on a real F-18!!! 😉😁😁

 I remember F3D with stencil "ВCTYПAИТЕ В МОРСКYЮ ПEXOTY США!" (Join to US Marines)😁😁😁

[modelling minion]

13 minutes ago, Aardvark said:

Partial translation will be later. 

I think we could all do with the translation Serge!

I really have to thank you for trying extremely hard to find a suitable Mig-29 for Paul to build, I gave him wrong information at the start which made us all think that his aggressor was suitable. You are quite right that we should try to be as accurate as possible with our builds but we are sometimes let down by inaccurate references.

Anyway, when will you be joining in the fun with a build of your own?  

[Dansk]

Hey guys i hope this thread hasnt caused a situation

Its just a hobby and supposed to be fun right 👍☺️

 

Thanks serge your knowledge is amazing and much appreciate all of your and dennis’s energy helping out 👍🙏

 

To be honest I’m a bit lost now with everything - do you know where i can buy some ussr decal set that is eligble? 

Otherwise I think let’s park this pony and I’ll build the mig outside of the GB with the kit decals no problemo. 

 

I’ve been thinking and after consideration I have a backup plan to join this forum though (I feel i should after wasting so much time)...   an F-16 from the stash - details to follow when i’ve triple checked the eligibilty 😁

 

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

1 hour ago, Dansk said:

Hey guys i hope this thread hasnt caused a situation

Its just a hobby and supposed to be fun right 👍☺️

I dont think it was a situation, more like a misunderstanding. I didn't type my thoughts out properly and once we talked it through i think we sorted it out. 

 

Dennis

[modelling minion]

9 hours ago, Dansk said:

Hey guys i hope this thread hasnt caused a situation

Its just a hobby and supposed to be fun right 👍☺️

 

Thanks serge your knowledge is amazing and much appreciate all of your and dennis’s energy helping out 👍🙏

 

To be honest I’m a bit lost now with everything - do you know where i can buy some ussr decal set that is eligble? 

Otherwise I think let’s park this pony and I’ll build the mig outside of the GB with the kit decals no problemo. 

 

I’ve been thinking and after consideration I have a backup plan to join this forum though (I feel i should after wasting so much time)...   an F-16 from the stash - details to follow when i’ve triple checked the eligibilty 😁

 

Paul you haven't caused a problem at all, far from it. I think we have all learned a lot from the discussion on this thread, I have learned to triple check resources before giving the go ahead for a build and that I need to learn Russian to get my facts right.

 

We are very lucky on BM that we have such excellent members as Serge ( @Aardvark ) who have such a wealth of knowledge that they are willing to share and Dennis ( @Corsairfoxfouruncle ) who put so much effort into trying to help people out, we really are blessed.

 

As for your Mig, if you want to build it in the traditional Soviet camo then there is India who used them from 1986 and I would suspect that North Korea would have had theirs delivered in the Soviet scheme and that the admittedly awful green scheme was a later re-paint as all Mig-29's delivered at the time came in standard Soviet schemes or variants thereof such as the Czech ones in the 4 colour camo scheme. Serge may well come through with a Soviet Mig-29 unit in the region which used them, and most Soviet units did not carry specific unit markings so as long as you have red starts and the the right coloured bort numbers then you should be goo to go.

 

The F-16 certainly is eligible and you have the following options; Indonesia, but only just as they received their first aircraft in December 1989. Thailand, they received A's and B's in 1988. Pakistan, they got their first aircraft starting in 1983. South Korea, they were the first foreign recipient of C's and D's and got theirs from 1986. Oh, and the USAF of course who had plenty of them stationed in the region, so you actually have quite a lot to choose from. Indonesia would be nice in their initial blue and white scheme  .

8 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

I dont think it was a situation, more like a misunderstanding. I didn't type my thoughts out properly and once we talked it through i think we sorted it out. 

 

Dennis

Definitely all sorted from what I can see and as you say was just a misunderstanding, a BIG thank you to you and Serge for your input on this thread.

[Dansk]

12 hours ago, modelling minion said:

Paul you haven't caused a problem at all, far from it. I think we have all learned a lot from the discussion on this thread, I have learned to triple check resources before giving the go ahead for a build and that I need to learn Russian to get my facts right.

 

We are very lucky on BM that we have such excellent members as Serge ( @Aardvark ) who have such a wealth of knowledge that they are willing to share and Dennis ( @Corsairfoxfouruncle ) who put so much effort into trying to help people out, we really are blessed.

 

As for your Mig, if you want to build it in the traditional Soviet camo then there is India who used them from 1986 and I would suspect that North Korea would have had theirs delivered in the Soviet scheme and that the admittedly awful green scheme was a later re-paint as all Mig-29's delivered at the time came in standard Soviet schemes or variants thereof such as the Czech ones in the 4 colour camo scheme. Serge may well come through with a Soviet Mig-29 unit in the region which used them, and most Soviet units did not carry specific unit markings so as long as you have red starts and the the right coloured bort numbers then you should be goo to go.

 

The F-16 certainly is eligible and you have the following options; Indonesia, but only just as they received their first aircraft in December 1989. Thailand, they received A's and B's in 1988. Pakistan, they got their first aircraft starting in 1983. South Korea, they were the first foreign recipient of C's and D's and got theirs from 1986. Oh, and the USAF of course who had plenty of them stationed in the region, so you actually have quite a lot to choose from. Indonesia would be nice in their initial blue and white scheme  .

Definitely all sorted from what I can see and as you say was just a misunderstanding, a BIG thank you to you and Serge for your input on this thread.

Thanks Craig such positive vibes and helpful advice.🙏

 

I now have an airframe decal option for a US f-16 stationed in japan but my hearts still on a soviet mig-29.

 

Ok as i understand it from you and serge I can make a soviet mig-29 9-12 in the standard camo. It’s a matter of 2 digits on the intake being the right colour and number.

 

This has to be possible right? Whether masking them by hand (a bit daunting)  or maybe switching around the numbers from a decal sheet out there to make it eligible (maybe even a decal sheet from a mig-23?) - 

 

So then I will start up! with a view that ‘I’ (hoping you guys can help) can find that solution before decaling stage 🤓

wish me luck, I’m going in.🤞

 

Theres always unpainted as a last resort 🤣

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 7, 2019 by Dansk

[modelling minion]

Paul I really want you too build your Mig-29 so please feel free to make a start, I (and no doubt others) will keep searching for a 9-12 that served in the region in the time frame, I am sure such a beast must exist.

Getting bort numbers to fit the desired build shouldn't be too much of a problem, I have some Mig-29 sheets that I would happily donate some numbers from to help you out.

[modelling minion]

19 hours ago, Dansk said:

So then I will start up! with a view that ‘I’ (hoping you guys can help) can find that solution before decaling stage 🤓

wish me luck, I’m going in.🤞

I believe we have a winner! Well 2 actually as I've found 2 units that operated the MIg-29 in the region. First off is the 404th Fighter Aviation Regiment who operated Mig-29's from 1986 and were based at Orlovka. Second is the 715th Training Air Regiment who operated a squadron of Mig-29 9.12's from 1985 onwards and were based at Lugovoy where they were part of the 5th Training Centre and they were tasked with training foreign pilots on the Mig-29 but they would have had a secondary war role, their aircraft were taken over by Kazakhstan in 1992 and are still in use, and are still definitely 9.12's!!!!!!!!

Only problem is I can't find any pics of either of them, perhaps Serge ( @Aardvark ) can come to our rescue.

[Hewy]

I'd  like to see your mig 29 kit built too paul I'm  looking forward to it

[Dansk]

5 hours ago, modelling minion said:

Paul I really want you too build your Mig-29 so please feel free to make a start, I (and no doubt others) will keep searching for a 9-12 that served in the region in the time frame, I am sure such a beast must exist.

Getting bort numbers to fit the desired build shouldn't be too much of a problem, I have some Mig-29 sheets that I would happily donate some numbers from to help you out.

Wow Craig that's super cool of you!

 

4 hours ago, modelling minion said:

I believe we have a winner! Well 2 actually as I've found 2 units that operated the MIg-29 in the region. First off is the 404th Fighter Aviation Regiment who operated Mig-29's from 1986 and were based at Orlovka. Second is the 715th Training Air Regiment who operated a squadron of Mig-29 9.12's from 1985 onwards and were based at Lugovoy where they were part of the 5th Training Centre and they were tasked with training foreign pilots on the Mig-29 but they would have had a secondary war role, their aircraft were taken over by Kazakhstan in 1992 and are still in use, and are still definitely 9.12's!!!!!!!!

Only problem is I can't find any pics of either of them, perhaps Serge ( @Aardvark ) can come to our rescue.

Awesome nice work! and thanks so much again, so we're looking good for project mig-29!

Hope serge will chime in with additional help too.

 

1 hour ago, Hewy said:

I'd  like to see your mig 29 kit built too paul I'm  looking forward to it

Thanks Hewy looks like we have a plan

 

[Dansk]

Just a few shots to get the ball rolling tonight:

 

It's a big box - thats an a2 cutting mat

 

Some gwh goodness: PE, beautiful quality instructions and an art print:

 

The upper section and glass parts have their own box for protection:

 

...and protection is whats happening here:

 

...and here: (one piece moulded missiles):

 

some plastic loveliness to digest here:

 

only the stars and the stencil data will be used but they look super quality to my untrained eye:

 

 

and i have a new photo light set-up so this was a chance to try it out, need more practice but its a start:

 

The brassin's for an Academy kit so time will tell if it works out for this...

Absolutely love the Soviet schemes and colours, - the green is for the wheels

 

not sure if taking the stuff out of the box actually qualifies as a start but it feels like it 😄

 

 

[Aardvark]

4 hours ago, modelling minion said:

First off is the 404th Fighter Aviation Regiment who operated Mig-29's from 1986 and were based at Orlovka.

404? Squadron not found???

😁😁😁

Travers (probably  grandfather Begemot)

decal

You may see building GWH Mig-29 9-12 404th Fighter Aviation Regiment who operated and  based at Orlovka:

 

https://karopka.ru/community/user/14242/?MODEL=496556

But as you see in 1989 on this MiG-29 no paint Eagle emblem:

B.w. this photo  MiG-29 404 IAP maked on Mary-1 airfield (! I talked about this!!!) :

This shark teeth was painting on this MiG-29 in 404 squadron,  but in the which one

period is unknown:

 

B.R.

Serge

 

P.S.

I'm a little busy right now, so other replicas will come later.

 

[modelling minion]

2 minutes ago, Dansk said:

 

not sure if taking the stuff out of the box actually qualifies as a start but it feels like it 😄

It counts with me!

It really is a great looking kit, those missiles are awesome!

3 minutes ago, Aardvark said:

B.w. this photo  MiG-29 404 IAP maked on Mary-1 airfield (! I talked about this!!!) :

And well done Serge for coming to the rescue with pictures! Thank you, you are a star!

 

Looks like you are good to go Paul!!

[Dansk]

33 minutes ago, modelling minion said:

It counts with me!

It really is a great looking kit, those missiles are awesome!

And well done Serge for coming to the rescue with pictures! Thank you, you are a star!

 

Looks like you are good to go Paul!!

Awesome Craig.

If Serge says its good, its definately good 😉 Thanks a lot fellas we got there.

 

There's a red "01" with the kit decals i could use which would be ideal! (are they red on these aircraft serge?)

(maybe i switch them round so they read "10")

 

The gray / pale green colouring seems to vary in every shot on the web

- are these gray / gray or gray / green -  the colour diagram might be just off hue in the photo.

 

no need to answer if you're busy right now serge its a while before i paint it 🙂

 

 

Edited July 8, 2019 by Dansk

[modelling minion]

19 hours ago, Dansk said:

There's a red "01" with the kit decals i could use which would be ideal! (are they red on these aircraft serge?)

(maybe i switch them round so they read "10")

 

The gray / pale green colouring seems to vary in every shot on the web

- are these gray / gray or gray / green -  the colour diagram might be just off hue in the photo.

Looking at the pictures I would say the numbers are red, it's what the artist went with for the profile, and using the kit decals as you suggest sounds like a good solution to me.

 

Camo wise I would be inclined to go with the usual grey and pale green, just my interpretation.

[Dansk]

Thanks Craig!

 

I made just a little initial progress this evening with an unconventional start on the engines, open upper louvred intakes and nozzles.

 

I will have the engines concealed so i put these together rather slapdash, a shame actually they’re really detailed.

I’m going for gear down, canopy closed and the louvred upper intakes open with the main intakes closed.

 

I’m awaiting a PE cockpit and reference book by post so I have not started with the office.

 

 

 

[modelling minion]

Those engines do look very detailed Paul. 

Having engines opened on models has become quite the fashionable thing for a lot of model companies to do now but personally I'm not that big a fan because super detailers will almost always buy a resin replacement which will be more detailed and the majority of us close them up and don't bother with them, so I would personally much rather they spent the time and money in giving a well detailed cockpit or actually providing something to hang under the wings.

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

8 hours ago, modelling minion said:

Having engines opened on models has become quite the fashionable thing for a lot of model companies to do now but personally I'm not that big a fan because super detailers will almost always buy a resin replacement which will be more detailed and the majority of us close them up and don't bother with them,

Not to mention the possible alignment issues they may cause ? If they don't seat right inside it can cause major headaches later in the build. 

[Dansk]

13 hours ago, modelling minion said:

Those engines do look very detailed Paul. 

Having engines opened on models has become quite the fashionable thing for a lot of model companies to do now but personally I'm not that big a fan because super detailers will almost always buy a resin replacement which will be more detailed and the majority of us close them up and don't bother with them, so I would personally much rather they spent the time and money in giving a well detailed cockpit or actually providing something to hang under the wings.

I think its such a exciting-looking aircraft to my eyes also it would be a shame to destroy the lines too having opened engines. They provide an engine jig/mount too which is pretty cool but again I wont be using that.

 

4 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Not to mention the possible alignment issues they may cause ? If they don't seat right inside it can cause major headaches later in the build. 

Will have to keep an eye on this, i was considering not fixing on the extra engine detailing parts as they wont be seen but then i thought they may be necessary as a spacer / important to alignment when installed so I folllowed the instructions.

 

Some AK black primer on the bits that will be seen this evening...

[modelling minion]

Nice smooth coat of black on the exhausts, should be a great primer for the metallic colours.

Wit you 100% on good looking aircraft needing to retain their shape Paul, some are that overdone with all the panels open and engines dropped that they look nothing like the aircraft that they are, never mind being completely unrealistic.

[Aardvark]

19 hours ago, Dansk said:

I think its such a exciting-looking aircraft to my eyes also it would be a shame to destroy the lines too having opened engines. They provide an engine jig/mount too which is pretty cool but again I wont be using that.

In the MiG-29 installation and disassembly of the engine is carried out exactly as done on the model.  Two hoods are simply removed and the engine is disconnected.

You always may glue hoods to fuselage and the jet engine of your model will be inaccessible to the eyes, but

maybe should make hoods removable?  For this, I can offer this technology:

Have also more primitive technology - metal pin, but probably this less reliable technology.  Nevertheless, I saw on this technology interchangeable weapons. 

On 7/5/2019 at 11:01 PM, modelling minion said:

Anyway, when will you be joining in the fun with a build of your own?  

No, because I have two unfinished models in GB Britmodeller.

This current GB serious thematic for my, because  very  probably in this GB my model may also be unfinished. It makes no sense.

On 7/7/2019 at 11:34 AM, modelling minion said:

We are very lucky on BM that we have such excellent members as Serge ( @Aardvark ) who have such a wealth of knowledge that they are willing to share 

But some users BM (with an unbalanced psyche) do not think so, judging by the topic of "MiG-21F-13 from Modelsvit". 😁

On 7/7/2019 at 11:34 AM, modelling minion said:

and that I need to learn Russian to get my facts right

...learn Russian?

It makes no sense.

In late Soviet Union was black humor joke: "Optimist learns English, pessimist learns Chinese, realist learns Kalashnikov assault rifle". Unfortunately this prophetic humor, as for my.

On 7/7/2019 at 11:34 AM, modelling minion said:

Mig-29's delivered at the time came in standard Soviet schemes or variants thereof such as the Czech ones in the 4 colour camo scheme. 

It's funny, but  first  early  camouflage scheme early 9-12 was 4 colour similar as Czech & DDR MiG-29.

 

B.R.

Serge

 

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

6 minutes ago, Aardvark said:

In late Soviet Union was black humor joke: "Optimist learns English, pessimist learns Chinese, realist learns Kalashnikov assault rifle". 

Absolutely love this. 👍🏻