# Not a TOPGUN GWH Mig-29 ...but a regular one # FINISHED #

[Dansk]

Here’s a placeholder for my contribution to this GB.
After mucking up my previous GB with life events eating up all my time, I hope to give this one a worthy effort...

I plan to build a Mig 29A from the Soviet Unions equivalent ‘TOPGUN’ outfit.
The subject is from the 2nd Squadron of the Soviet Unions 1561st unit based at the Maryy-1 airbase in Turkmenistan. Mig-29’s operated here in and from 1989. 

The kit is a GWH 1/48 9-12 (A) and the decals are from the kit. 

These decals are technically a ‘91 aircraft according to gwh, but let’s quickly gloss over that and pretend the serial numbers say 1989 ahhemm (I have an ok on gb entry from @modelling minion as the scheme and specs are identical)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The great wall hobby kit has good reviews from what i can find on the web.

I have a couple of bits of AM in transit to boot ;- a pitot tube, and resin wheels

I plan to weather it quite heavily: I think soviet aircraft look so great as such and it’s fun to learn new things and try each time;- and I have bought some ak weathering pencils and a few pots of AK weathering effects which i’m excited about experimenting with. 

(Thx to craig for the help)
Looking forward to this a lot!

Edited October 9, 2019 by Dansk

[modelling minion]

I am really looking forward to this one Paul, and I'm sure you will get plenty of interest from other members too, especially those making Soviet era mud movers that require top cover.

I also have a GWH kit in the stash so am interested to see how it goes from the build perspective too.

The extras you're adding should make it look even better, and I think a heavily weathered aircraft is appropriate as they were busy dog fighting on a regular basis.

Don't forget to paint the rear portion of the canopy white.

 

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

To be truly honest I'm not a huge fan of Mig's after the 21. But i actually like this Mig-29 with the huge funky shark mouth and the VA 176 Intrepid Bee. I like it enough to even consider it for a future build. 

 

Dennis

[Dansk]

Thanks chaps can’t wait to start on it

[Aardvark]

On 7/1/2019 at 9:57 PM, Dansk said:

I plan to build a Mig 29A from the Soviet Unions equivalent ‘TOPGUN’ outfit.
The subject is from the 2nd Squadron of the Soviet Unions 1561st unit based at the Maryy-1 airbase in Turkmenistan. Mig-29’s operated here in and from 1989

Sorry but it's unreal !

These aircraft entered the second special squadron of the 1521 air base in the period from May 31 to October 14, 1991, and the emblems were inscribed on them during that period.  Previously, these planes of such emblems not only did not have, but also had other aircraft numbers.

 

Information from one of the best books on the MiG-29 published on Russian:

(I hope the authors will sometime release the rest of this trilogy about MiG-29)

 

But in fact Soviet Union was ceased to exist in December 1991,

1521 air base disbanded

in 1993,

so in my opinion, this model can take part in this GB.

 

B.R.

Serge

 

 

[Dansk]

Wow @Aardvark serge that is one awesome looking book. gotta get one!

Ok it seems that our info is not as good as your info for sure!

Thanks for clarifying this before i spent tons of time building it and found out half way through

 

So i need to do a little more research it seems and find some alternate scheme for the kit... 

Any suggestions are welcome and appreciated (everybody):

preferably soviet scheme (i love it) but not essential

based east of pakistan in the 80’s

(Mig-29 (9-12) Decals available in 1/48)

 

 

Edited July 3, 2019 by Dansk

[Dansk]

...sorry an additional post @Aardvark i was just trying to search out some new decals, these popped up (wrong scale but..) they look the same as mine and they are listed as 1989. Is it definately not correct serge?

Edited July 3, 2019 by Dansk

[Aardvark]

41 minutes ago, Dansk said:

Wow @Aardvark serge that is one awesome looking book. gotta get one! 

Only second hand market for this book. Because the first edition of this book has long been sold out.  There were no other edition.

In fact, part of this book was published for the money of future owners. 

20 minutes ago, Dansk said:

...sorry an additional post @Aardvark i was just trying to search out some new decals, these popped up (wrong scale but..) they look the same as mine and they are listed as 1989. Is it definately not correct serge?

In this matter I have more confidence in the authors of the book.  It is now late at 0:32 after midnight local time, so tomorrow I will try to translate for You some details regarding these MiG's.

B.w. authors this book are well known among the Russian model community and are regulars of many Russian model and aviation Internet forums. Why do Western researchers and manufacturers do not use the Russian segment of the Internet, I do not know.

55 minutes ago, Dansk said:

Any suggestions are welcome and appreciated (everybody):

preferably soviet scheme (i love it) but not essential

based east of pakistan in the 80’s

(Mig-29 (9-12) Decals available in 1/48)

One of the first in the Asian part of the USSR MiG-29 received 115 GvIAP.  And it was the MiG-29 in a rare four-color camouflage fighter-bomber scheme.  Unfortunately, it was MiG-29 type 9-13.  I'm looking for, but have not yet found the data whether in the 115 GvIAP MiG-29 type 9-12.

However, for the 115 GvIAP there is an absolutely gorgeous Afghan

big-eyed MiG-21bis “44” “Moscow”:

 

 

B.R.

Serge

[Dansk]

Thanks so much for your help and knowledge Serge you’re a true expert!

Let’s see what turns up 9-12 scheme wise.

Everything decals wise I can find so far in 1:48 is either 9-13, in the 90’s, west of pakistan or just ugly.

 

Edited July 3, 2019 by Dansk

[modelling minion]

This really is a shame if it can't be possible for the Mig-29 9-12's to have been in service at the Tog Gun unit before 1990, I don't doubt that the book you have Serge is indeed very good but I have checked a couple of online sources (only as reliable as the info they put in) and the state a 1989 entry to service.

If this scheme isn't possible then there are always India and North Korea as they both received their Mig-29 9-12's from the late eighties.

[modelling minion]

Just found another source also stating 1989.

http://www.ww2.dk/new/air force/division/schools/1521tsb.htm

[Aardvark]

The difficulties of translation are to blame!

 1521 air base have two squadron - first & second. Second was special analogue USAF Aggressors or USN Top Gun.

Correctly, was written in book (page 76) in late 80  1521 air base have MiG-29 (9-13) & MiG-23MLD.....but devil's in details!

MiG-29 (9-13) have 1st squadron in late  80!

2st squadron in late  80 have MiG-23MLD.....and boy's from second squadron was very evil's & experience pilot. 

In fact, you are now repeating the same mistake that the MiG-29 and Su-27 pilots made when they arrived in Mary and saw that their opponents would be MiG-23MLD....

....at same mistake that the F-15 pilots when they arrived in Tonopah and saw that their opponents would be F-5E!

As is well known, the arrogance of the pilots of the front-line MiG-29 and Su-27 as well as the F-15 quickly disappeared when they were crushed with a crushing score on the MiG-23MLD and F-5E, respectively. Because pilot's Aggressors 

as Soviet so and American was no limit in manageability & tactics, and of course pilot's Aggressors have biggest flying hours & experience.In addition, the first series of the MiG-29 before the improvements were worse in some characteristics than the MiG-23MLD.  

And don't forget that Petkov on MiG-23MLD from 120 IAP in Afghanistan did not bring down the Pakistan F-16 only because of a strict ban of the command, despite the fact that the F-16 was in his sight, the finger was on the trigger and the missile  head targeting  F-16!

 

MiG-23MLD was very dangerous fighter unlike first MiG-23S. 

In addition, the MiG-29 and Su-27 tried to send part of the Warsaw Pact to the West, Asia was viewed as a secondary direction.

 

But constantly it could not be, front-line pilots gained experience and technical excellence of the MiG-29 and Su-27, together with the removal of restrictions and their modifications, inclined the results of training dogfight in their favor.....As in USAF/USN with F-15 v.s. F-5E.

 

...Sorry, my cat 

something is concerned

 

.... the sequel will be later ...

 

[modelling minion]

47 minutes ago, Aardvark said:

the sequel will be later ..

That must be some sequel as the first part is excellent Serge.

You are quite right about the Mig-29 versions as I found yet another source (Soviet Tactical Aviation by Yefim Gordon and Dmitry Komissarov) which also states that 1st Squadron received 9-13's in 1989 but the 2nd squadron didn't get their 9-12's until after 1990, bugger!

I do like the look of the Mig-23 MLD's with the shark mouth, I just don't have a kit.

[Aardvark]

...cat feeling the smell of opened  kefir .... now he drank kefir and 

relaxed.....

 

.... continued.....

 

Translation of photo captions from book.

 

MiG-29 "09" serial number 296057649 2-sq 1521 AB "Mary-1".

Firstly fighter was in 968 IAP an have tactical number "47" orange with blue edging. In 1989 aircraft was transferred to 35 IAP, after years transfer to 115 GvIAP, after transfer to 1521 AB.

Photo maked on airfield 121 ARZ:

MiG-29 "01 red" serial number 2960505549 2-sq 1521 AB "Mary-1".

Firstly fighter was in 234 GvIAP an have tactical number "01 blue" In 1990 (correct 1991!? ) this aircraft with others 9-12 was transferred from 115 GvIAP,  to 1521 AB.

This aircraft have full complete emblem & nose art. Photo maked on airfield "Bagai-Baranovka":

MiG-29 "08 red" serial number 2960518475 2-sq 1521 AB "Mary-1".

Maked in 1986.

Firstly fighter was in 91 IIAP (airfield "Lipetsk-2") an have tactical number "33 red". In November 1990, aircraft was transferred to 115 GvIAP (airfield "Kokaity"), after seven months, in June 1991, aircraft transferred to AB "Mary-1". Aircraft art on 1992:

About emblem.

Iniators were Senior Navigator Lieutenant Colonel Kornev, Major's Karpov, Zaitcev, Kravtcov & deputy commander for political affairs Major Kulikov.

Emblems approved commander group Lieutenant Colonel Smiltnieks & base commander Colonel Frolov.

Emblems maked 

Senior Navigator Lieutenant Colonel Kornev, maked slowly on airfield:

 

So, as you see in this book have full way aircraft from

regiment to regiment, their

series number, change their

tactical number, authors their emblem....why should I not trust this book?

 

B.R.

Serge

[Aardvark]

34 minutes ago, modelling minion said:

I do like the look of the Mig-23 MLD's with the shark mouth, I just don't have a kit.

Shark mouth MiG-23MLD 120 IAP during in Afghan war , as and shark mouth

their MiG-29 9-13, as for my more esthetic & beautiful than shark mouth MiG-23MLD & MiG-29 9-12

1521 AB "Mary-1"!

 

And of course I'm agree with You, no accurate MiG-23 in 72nd scale...and in 48th scale too.

 

B.R.

Serge

[Dansk]

Well we are all learning a lot in this thread Serge, excellent stuff.

ok so to take stock:

I have this mig-29 9-12 with a few bits of AM that i’m itching to build and would love to do it for this GB

 

and this aircraft was used in the GB geographic area, so its just the scheme.

all the 1/48 soviet decals out there seem incorrect they 9-13 or 90’s. (Unless i’ve not discovered some)

 

Craig you mentioned the Iranian scheme earlier that looks pretty cool

These decals:

https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/DM0812

Can someone (serge? ) tell me if this decal set is eligible, year-wise?

 

 

 

 

 

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Unfortunately Iran is outside the geographic area of the build ? How about a North Korean Mig-29 ? Mig-29 decals should be available  ? 

 

https://theaviationist.com/2012/02/02/north-korean-mig-29/

 

This is wiki's listing of Mig-29 operators. That may help you find a country as well. 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mikoyan_MiG-29_operators

 

 

Dennis

Edited July 5, 2019 by Corsairfoxfouruncle

[Dansk]

Also theres a syrian set here

(4th image under the ‘more images’ tab...)

https://www.aero-spezial-modellbauversand.de/Decals/ModelMaker-Decals/Scale-1-48/MOD48064-MiG-29-Fulcrum-Iran-Syria-Yemen::13710.html#horizontalTab2

[Dansk]

15 minutes ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Unfortunately Iran is outside the geographic area of the build ? How about a North Korean Mig-29 ? Mig-29 decals should be available  ? 

 

https://theaviationist.com/2012/02/02/north-korean-mig-29/

 

This is wiki's listing of Mig-29 operators. That may help you find a country as well. 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mikoyan_MiG-29_operators

 

 

Dennis

Thanks Dennis

Damn it is, and syria too.

I’m just not keen on that north korean scheme in lurid green.

 

 

Edited July 5, 2019 by Dansk

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Just now, Dansk said:

Thanks Dennis

Damn it is, and syria too.

I’m ust not keen on that north korean scheme in lurid green.

Im still looking maybe one of the south or the south-east asian countries ? 

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Ok heres a Malaysian Mig ? 

 

https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/7602994

 

Indian Mig ? 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2019-02-19/india-requests-additional-mig-29-fighters%3Famp

 

Turkmenistan 

 

http://wpalette.com/en/pictures/56710

 

Azerbaijani

 

https://www.airplane-pictures.net/photo/931434/03-azerbaijan-air-force-mikoyan-gurevich-mig-29/

 

Bangladesh

 

https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:36100_Bangladesh_Air_Force_MIG-29_Lined_Up_for_Take_Off_(8107460875).jpg

 

Myanmar 

 

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Myanmar-Air-Force/Mikoyan-Gurevich-MiG-29B-9-12B/1280430

 

Kazakhstan

 

 https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/8096700

 

I don't know if any of these pique your interest ? Some of them are quite colorful in the multi-blue camouflage. I am pretty sure you can get decals through @asianairarms and the AsianAirArms SIG. Of course i dont know when they entered service so that would still need research ? Let me know if you need help I'm available ? 

 

Dennis

Edited July 5, 2019 by Corsairfoxfouruncle

[Dansk]

16 minutes ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Ok heres a Malaysian Mig ? 

 

https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/7602994

 

Indian Mig ? 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2019-02-19/india-requests-additional-mig-29-fighters%3Famp

 

Turkmenistan 

 

http://wpalette.com/en/pictures/56710

 

Azerbaijani

 

https://www.airplane-pictures.net/photo/931434/03-azerbaijan-air-force-mikoyan-gurevich-mig-29/

 

Bangladesh

 

https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:36100_Bangladesh_Air_Force_MIG-29_Lined_Up_for_Take_Off_(8107460875).jpg

 

Myanmar 

 

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Myanmar-Air-Force/Mikoyan-Gurevich-MiG-29B-9-12B/1280430

 

Kazakhstan

 

 https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/8096700

 

I don't know if any of these pique your interest ? Some of them are quite colorful in the multi-blue camouflage. I am pretty sure you can get decals through @asianairarms and the AsianAirArms SIG. Of course i dont know when they entered service so that would still need research ? Let me know if you need help I'm available ? 

 

Dennis

Thanks so much Dennis for your help with this.

I’m kinda still in love with those special ussr/russian hues - just not keen on those blue schemes and indian, and the non-blue makaysian migs were only delivered in the 90’s.

I Don’t think we can shoe-horn the mig-29 nicely into this GB.

I think the only nice solution would be to construct a eastern soviet one but its impossible to get the decals in the right bases in the right years I’ve found. 

I think I might have to sit this one out

 

 

 

 

 

[Aardvark]

Let's begin from geographic in time period!

Time period this building Asian from 1 January 1980 to 31 December 1989.

So, it's historical period when Soviet Union was live! Geographically Soviet Union  was from European part and Asian part.

First off all what is Asian part Soviet Union? 

Asian part Soviet Union it's  Asian part Russian Soviet Socialistic Federation + 

Soviet Central Asia

(Kazakh Soviet Socialistic Republic +  Uzbek Soviet Socialistic Republic +  Turkmen Soviet Socialistic Republic + 

Kyrgyz Soviet Socialistic Republic

 +  Tajik Soviet Socialistic Republic - Modern Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Central_Asia

In addition, partly Asian was the territory of modern Georgia and Azerbaijan which were previously Georgia

Soviet Socialistic Republic & Azerbaijan Soviet Socialistic Republic. Also was West Asian modern  Armenian & other part Georgia in Soviet Union Armenian SSR & Georgia SSR.

What applies to the Asian part of the Russian Soviet Socialist Republic?  Same as the modern part of Asian Russia! The Asian part of Russia consists of four economic regions of the country - the Ural (partially), West Siberian, East Siberian and Far Eastern.

 

So, You may maked ANY types Soviet aircraft (include MiG-29) based on this territory in the interim period GB!!!

 

Second.

 

1561st unit based at the Maryy-1 it's Soviet analogue Top Gun/ Aggressors! It's special base for training front line fighter dogfight ( Program training dogfighting code name "Kavkaz" or 

"exercise 500")

But this program training dogfighting not for one day but for several weeks or even a month. And of course this program is impossible without rivals that were other units.

Thus, the majority of units of the USSR fighters visited the Mary-1 for training dogfight!

 

So, in theory all Soviet MiG-29 regiment some weeks temporarily

based in Mary-1!!!

 

12 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Malaysian Mig

No!

On June 7, 1994, a contract was signed for the supply of 18 aircraft (probably modifications 9.12D) and two combat training vehicles (9.51) (+ two non-flying aircraft for ground-based training).  The aircraft were delivered in April 1995 in the original version (without modifications, which the Malaysian side required, in particular the installation of an in-flight refueling system).

 

12 hours ago, Dansk said:

Indian Mig 

Yes.  Since 1986, aircraft of this type have been delivered to India

12 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Turkmenistan

No! The country's independence was proclaimed on October 27, 1991.

12 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Azerbaijani

No! Date of independence
from the USSR: August 30, 1991 

12 hours ago, Dansk said:

Bangladesh

No! The first deliveries in October 1999.

12 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Myanmar

No!

Myanmar received the first fighters of this type in 2001-2002, when 11 Russian MiG-29 planes were delivered from Russia (in the 9-12B variant) and one combat-capable MiG-29UB (9-51)

12 hours ago, Dansk said:

Kazakhstan

Sorry, but no!!!

Because date of independence
 December 16, 1991 (from USSR).

 

Finally.

No Soviet AF Asian MiG-29 for this GB - Indian, Iraq, Noth Korea.

 

About Soviet AF Asian based MiG-29 I'm search.

 

B.R.

Serge

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

2 hours ago, Aardvark said:

No! Date of independence
from the USSR: August 30, 1991

I was just throwing some ideas out ? If you look and see, my original post says this.

15 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Of course i dont know when they entered service so that would still need research ?

Many thanks for letting us know the dates though ? That will help a lot of people I'm sure ? 

 

Dennis

[Aardvark]

9 minutes ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

I was just throwing some ideas out ? If you look and see, my original post says this.

Many thanks for letting us know the dates though ? That will help a lot of people I'm sure ? 

 

Dennis

???

Dennis I don't understand You reaction.....

You are based on where you are in service with the MiG-29.  But GB implies time limits. 

I just wrote that these MiG-29 do not fit the terms of GB. Admit it, it is strange to attribute the Czech C-92 to the period of WW2 only because it is Me-262 and was WW2 in Czechoslovakia?

Similarly, in this situation, all these MiG-29s, after these countries declared independence, received new camouflage and a new national insignia. Only that.

 

And if you think that I came to this thread, just to criticize and show that I am a "mega-expert", absolutely not.

 

To some extent, now, I regret writing my post in this topic.

 

But my principle is, if I see a problem and I speak about this problem, then I must offer a solution to this problem.

 

So, first solution to this problem MiG-29 9-12 176th Fighter Berlin Red Banner Aviation Regiment based on airbase "Mikha Tskhakaya",Georgia.

https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/176-й_истребительный_авиационный_полк

176 IAP have MiG-29 9-12 from 1985 to 1992.

 

Georgia is a country in the Caucasus region. Situated at the juncture of Western Asia and Eastern Europe,[2] it is bounded to the west by the Black Sea, to the north by Russia, to the south by Turkey and Armenia, and to the east by Azerbaijan.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_Georgia_(country)

176 IAP  was notorious because

In 1989, a MiG-29 aircraft from the 176th Fighter Berlin Red Banner Aviation Regiment landed in Turkey was hijacked from an air base.  After a day and a half, the plane was returned to its aerodrome.  American experts could not agree to inspect the aircraft, the Turkish authorities refused them.

https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Сенаки

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Zuyev_(pilot)

 

But I think I can find other MiG-29s 9-12 out of 176 IAP, not Zuyev aircraft.

 

Finally, Soviet AF MiG-29 9-12 176 IAP  received from 1985 in service, based on West Asian part Soviet Union is this a solution to the problem I created?

 

B.R.

Serge