Revell corsair blue?

[Bronzebeard]

Which blue should I paint the Revell Corsair Royal Navy? Revell instruction ask for a mix of blue matt and anthracite but I'm reluctant to buy and mix two paints if there is a single paint available.

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

You need ANA623 Glossy Sea Blue. It's available from several brands including mine.

[Troy Smith]

1 hour ago, Bronzebeard said:

Which blue should I paint the Revell Corsair Royal Navy? Revell instruction ask for a mix of blue matt and anthracite but I'm reluctant to buy and mix two paints if there is a single paint available.

 

OK, this kit https://www.revell.de/en/products/modelmaking/planes/world-war-ii/f4u-1b-corsair-royal-navy.html

 

What this is overall Gloss Sea Blue ANA 623. 

 

the only  accurate paint out the tin for this I know of is the Sovereign Hobbies one,   which is enamel.   (as @Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies has just posted) 

 

At this point, a brief digression,   there is commonly confusion and misunderstanding on WHAT Gloss Sea Blue actually is, 

Quote

There are a couple of other reasons the model paint manufacturers have had problems matching the Sea Blues.  Most are working from the FS595 chips, which never accurately matched all three versions of the wartime colors.  The other problem is that the formula for ANA 623 Glossy Sea Blue changed in 1947/48.  The original color faded to quickly and was replaced with more resilient pigments.  When the US Navy gave modelers the old stocks of ANA paint chips in the 1960s/70s, some of us got the 1944 card-stock chip of ANA 623, while others got the 1948 metal replacement chips.  I can well remember the arguments back then, arguments that arose because we were working from different standards!

 

Cheers,

 

 

Dana

 

You will commonly see FS 15042 quoted for the wartime colour,  ANA623,  but they are not the same.   I have the US Navy Monogram painting guide,  the ANA623 chip is a very dark green blue,  but did fade.

 

I've not sorted out a paint match.

 

The Corsair KD431 at the FAA museum is in original GSB, which has faded.

 

I would also suggest listing what paints you use or, like or can get, as this will help.    

 

If you don't want to go quietly bonkers, and want to use Revell paint, Gloss Night Blue 54 MIGHT be  OK, but is probably a bit dark. 

 

HTH

PS this has lots of discussion

 

 

this may help,  a great period color shot.  

 

[Bronzebeard]

So Royal Navy Corsairs weren't repainted? I was tempted to buy navy blue and be done with it.

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

No the FAA Corsairs which were blue were wearing the same American ANA623 Glossy Sea Blue they were built with. Most modellers choose a much too bright-bluey-blue. The real thing as shown nicely in that photo posted by Troy was a fairly dull, smokey, greyish blue.

[Bronzebeard]

Thanks for the info!

[Troy Smith]

3 hours ago, Bronzebeard said:

So Royal Navy Corsairs weren't repainted?

In general,  lend lease types were not repainted.

 

Depending when, and who built them,  the colours were initially US versions of Ministry of Aircraft production shades, which vary from nearly identical to pretty close to the British shades,  as before Lend Lease, the British had been buying aircraft, and specifying the colours, so manufacturers already dealing with the British had  paint stock, for example Grumman, 

 

With the expansion of Lend Lease, the British agreed on equivalent shades of US ANA paint,  and example being Eastern built Avengers,  TBM-1 in US use, Avenger II in FAA service,  which has the equivalent colors, Olive Drab for dark Slate Grey, Sea Gray for Extra Dark Sea Grey and US Sky for Sky, same for eastern built Wildcats, the FM-1,  though the FM-2 seems to have mostly been GSB? 

 

Evidently the FAA agreed later to have aircraft supplied finished in the then standard USN Gloss Sea Blue,  so later Hellcats, Wildcats, Corsairs and Avengers were overall Gloss Sea Blue.

 

Not sure of the changeover, late 44 or early 45?

 

The chap who could tell you more is @Dana Bell,  or perhaps @iang  I'd be interested to know myself

 

This is just meant as a brief intro,  and  if you are looking for specifics,  ask, or, try adding Britmodeller into a google search term, as these are topics that have been discussed in much greater detail before.

3 hours ago, Bronzebeard said:

I was tempted to buy navy blue and be done with it.

 

AFAIK, the only 'navy blue' aircraft in the FAA service were US types,   certainly in ww2 and the 50's (I'm thinking of Avengers and Skyraiders here)  which were either ANA 623 or later FS15042....

 

You never said what your preferred paint brand and type are?   

 

If enamel and accuracy are your thing, then check out Sovereign Hobbies range, as while other companies do make accurate colours,  Sovereign seem to be the only ones who detail their research and welcome feedback, and will then change to correct paint colours  as a result.

 

  @Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies has posted up some fascinating research on WW2 Royal Navy colours,  sorting out what was used, and what the colours actually were. Not an area of specific interest to me,  but I have read the posts on this as, well, it shows what can be done if the will is there.

 

I note you are new to posting here,  I don't know if you have been 'lurking' or are new to the place,  but there is a very active and knowledgeable membership,  (we have members who quite literally  have written the books on subjects, @Dana Bell has been researching US colors for at least 40 years) and there is a lot of research being posted here on a regular basis,  often greatly adding to or even overturning much accepted 'facts'

It can be a bit of an information overload, but you'll be hard pressed to get better answers about many subjects than on here.

 

I know, and all you wanted was some blue paint for a Corsair model

 

HTH

T

[Bronzebeard]

I love it. I love to learn new things and especially about the aircraft I'm building or are planning to build. im sure all this information is somewhere out on the internet but its brilliant to be able ask people with the knowledge who are willing to share. I'm only just getting into modelling and the whole WW2 history.

 

I generally use humbrol acrylic as I've got used to adding water and know how to work with it. And a few revell paints that came with an FW190 F8. 

[Troy Smith]

11 minutes ago, Bronzebeard said:

 

I generally use humbrol acrylic as I've got used to adding water and know how to work with it.

well, Airfix are (I think, as the instructions do not appear to be online.  ) suggesting the use of 15 Midnight Blue on the 1/24th Hellcat for GSB

https://www.airfix.com/uk-en/grumman-f6f-5-hellcat.html

 

I don't think Midnight Blue is a particularly good match,  but if you like Humbrol, and don't want too mix,   then maybe your best bet.  

I'm surprised Airfix/Humbrol have not actually made an accurate ANA 623 Gloss Sea Blue to go with their new flagship kit.... 

19 minutes ago, Bronzebeard said:

im sure all this information is somewhere out on the internet

along with lots of the same old stuff regurgitated with no filters or knowledge.   

 

An example, the links I posted above about USN blues,  are AFAIK, accurate,  as they are from the research of @Dana Bell

 

Note also the discussion of paint colours,  for example Hataka list Gloss Sea Blue as "ANA 623/FSA15042"   which is wrong, as they are not the same colour,  AK Interactive do not list all the blues that are listed. 

 

If you read the links, you will be correctly informed on the subject,  you could wade through lots of stuff on this on the net and not actually have the incorrect 'noise' filtered out.

 

I only know this from the work of others who I know to be trustworthy, and where to find the relevant threads.  

 

here's a link to a review of Dana's 2nd Corsair book

http://www.hyperscale.com/2015/reviews/books/f4u1vol2bellbookreviewse_1.htm

 

Just to put my comments into perspective

 

cheers

T

 

[Troy Smith]

2 hours ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

Most modellers choose a much too bright-bluey-blue. The real thing as shown nicely in that photo posted by Troy was a fairly dull, smokey, greyish blue.

 

13 hours ago, Bronzebeard said:

Revell instruction ask for a mix of blue matt and anthracite

 

Note, given @Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies  description, the Revell recommended mix maybe quite a good match, given Anthracite is a smoky dark grey

[Black Knight]

Here's some samples I did a while back

Left is Humbrol 15, centre is the old Humbrol GSB 181 and right is BMW Navy Blue

 

Here is the Corsair at FAAM Yeovil

 

I'd go for BMW Navy Blue over Humbrol 15 if I didn't have Humbrol 181 GSB

 

Perhaps one of our paint mix chappies (Nick or Mike?) would look in and suggest a mix of Humbrol paints

[Black Knight]

PS. I'd try a mix myself but being colour blind makes it a bit awkward

[Grey Beema]

6 minutes ago, Black Knight said:

 

Here is the Corsair at FAAM Yeovil

 

I'd go for BMW Navy Blue over Humbrol 15 if I didn't have Humbrol 181 GSB

 

Perhaps one of our paint mix chappies (Nick or Mike?) would look in and suggest a mix of Humbrol paints

I'm probably being a bit thick but BMW Navy Blue as in buy a spray can from Halfords?

[Troy Smith]

4 minutes ago, Black Knight said:

Here is the Corsair at FAAM Yeovil

Just FYI, this Corsair, KD431,  was used as an instructional airframe post war, and was eventually sent to the FAA museum,  where a coat of sea blue polyuretahn paint was slapped on, years later this was carefully peeled and scraped off, leaving the most authentic example of a WW2 Corsair still surviving.

there is a a book "KD431, the time capsule Corsair"  which is a fascinating book on the plane, it's history and the restoration. 

8 minutes ago, Black Knight said:

BMW Navy Blue

?  Do you mean car spray paint? 

Didn't know Humbrol had done a GSB,  even more so it's not been made available for the Hellcat!  

[Black Knight]

Yes, the BMW Navy Blue is car spray paint in a rattle can, as bought out of my local Halfords. It is a purer blue than is required but its dark shade is better than Humbrol 15 I think

 

Humbrol 181 GSB is one of the long discontinued Humbrol colours. It is strange that Airfix did not re-introduce it for the Hellcat. I emailed them the suggestion last November but just got the standard automatic email answer.

 

I've had an idea; I wonder if Humbrol 230 PRU blue might be a colour to suit the OP. I must check out its shade. Its available in acrylic and enamel I think

[Troy Smith]

3 minutes ago, Black Knight said:

I've had an idea; I wonder if Humbrol 230 PRU blue might be a colour to suit the OP. I must check out its shade.

if it's anything like the real PRU Blue, way too light.

[Black Knight]

yup, you are right, far too light. On my Humbrol colour chart its printed really dark but the tin lid looks very light

scrub that for a fried egg

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

GSB also has a noticable green component. 

[Bronzebeard]

I've seen glossy sea blue made by Vallejo, but says it its suited to airbrush. I'm a hairy stick user so would it ok to brush paint with? 

[Troy Smith]

1 minute ago, Bronzebeard said:

I've seen glossy sea blue made by Vallejo, but says it its suited to airbrush. I'm a hairy stick user so would it ok to brush paint with? 

 

Model Air? yes, but it is very thin, and thus requires multiple coats.   Model colour brushes very BTW. 

 

Also, I don't trust Vallejo's descriptions/matches for colour,  they make some very good colours,  but they are not what they say on the label!   

 

And, bear in mind the comments about the difference between ANA623 and FS15042,  and the general ignorance of this.....

[Giorgio N]

Vallejo also offers an acrylic paint that is well suited to brush users and may work here, it's Dark Sea Blue 898 in their Model Colour range.

Now regarding accuracy, they say this colour represent ANA 607 and FS 35042 so would not be the correct colour.. but as Troy said Vallejo's matches are not really accurate, particularly for the Model Color range.

I used this paint many years ago on a 1/72 Hellcat, I remember it having the green component mentioned but IIRC it was not as grey as the pictures show. As the model is now lost I can't compare to pictures, but I still have the bottle of paint, I may try and see what this looks like. In any case it may not be accurate but will sure be better than something too blue like Humbrol 15

Of course the Vallejo paint is matt, not gloss. so a gloss or semigloss coat on top would be needed

[Black Knight]

6 hours ago, Bronzebeard said:

I've seen glossy sea blue made by Vallejo, but says it its suited to airbrush. I'm a hairy stick user so would it ok to brush paint with? 

Which ever you go for I recommend you put on a matt black undercoat first. 

 

PS. Hannants do GSB FS15042 in their Xtracylix. Would this not be a good option, instead of H 15 or the other blue paints

yes - I did read the postings above but is not a later GSB better than a really wrong blue?

 

https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/XA1121

[Mike Starmer]

For what it is worth, I matched Glossy Sea Blue 623 in Elliott's USN colours book with 4 x Humbrol 77 + 1 x Humbrol 68.  The book sample is not full gloss, more satin finish.  A coat of satin varnish provided the required effect. 

[Black Knight]

4 minutes ago, Jordi said:

 

FS15042 is not the same color as ANA 623.

Please do not selectively quote me. 

Read and quote me completely and correctly

[Graham Boak]

1 hour ago, Black Knight said:

 

yes - I did read the postings above but is not a later GSB better than a really wrong blue?

 

But why when the correct paint is available?  If it is wrong it is wrong and all wrongnesses are real.  So how far out are each of all these optional colours, so we can come to some kind of judgement on the best to choose?  Particularly remembering that the wartime colour did fade?