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2 hours ago, TheBaron said:

few steps to go yet

Great movie!

 

I guess you agitate the solution to prevent “used” etching fluid from just hanging around where it’s been etching, and whoosh some fresh stronger stuff in for a go?

 

Confused (but interested) of S. London...

 

(edit: on re-reading, exactly what Bill  @perdu said.)

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First attempt looking promising, Tony - I know you'll get there :thumbsup2:

 

Ciao

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21 hours ago, Martian said:

Now that radar is tasty! 

 

Impressed of Mars 

Just to be clear Daddy M. - it's not edible! :laugh:

#whatdomartianseat?

21 hours ago, bbudde said:

But it's allways good to see that you want perfect quality for your builds. It will be worth the next try for sure.

Thanks Benedikt. :thumbsup2:

I think it's always important to strive for perfection, whilst knowing full well that you'll always fall short. In my case I strive to fall short by the least amount possible within the time available.

Or something: I just made that up and it sounds annoyingly New Age-y! :rofl2:

21 hours ago, hendie said:

Agitation. 

We're you agitating the etchant at all?

 

20 hours ago, perdu said:

try agitating the tank next time,

Agitate? I never bloody stopped Alan & Bill! :rofl2:

Actual GoPro footage from the tank's perspective...

giphy.gif

 

It's an entirely natural issue you both raise but - particularly as this is a double-sided job -  I hovered over it the whole time jiggling the brass around in a (plastic-coated) wire cradle and sloshing the fluid around in the tank to keep it in motion so that any residue was flushed away and fresh etchant would reach the brass.

 

More on the real culprit below....

 

21 hours ago, LorenSharp said:

Just the piece of information I've been looking for Baron!

I'm really glad to hear that Loren! :thumbsup2:

Although you have to adjust some of the development / etching times etc., to whatever mix of chemicals and photoresist you're using, the book gives a really thorough overview for a novice like me!

21 hours ago, bigbadbadge said:

Great first attempt Tony,

Generous of you as always Chris. :thumbsup2:

20 hours ago, AdrianMF said:

Great movie!

Isn't it? :yahoo:

Diane Broadbent Friedman's:

41dtR5kJX8L._SX331_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

- is a fascinating analysis of some of the visual psychology informing the film; not at all hard to read and a deeply rewarding book. I was lucky enough to interview the author for a project some years back and she'd pinned down the interesting fact that Arthur C.Clarke had provided advice to Michael Powell about the cosmic opening sequence of the film.

20 hours ago, giemme said:

First attempt looking promising, Tony - I know you'll get there

Grazie Giorgio - your faith is much appreciated my friend. :thumbsup2:

 

 

A night's sleep on a problem is often a good thing so after reflecting on yesterday's efforts, I did some further reading and thinking and then put the matter to one side until this morning.

 

After spending the morning making a few adjustments to yesterday's process I done got a better hetch than the last lot:

50965852316_454e731399_b.jpg

In fact that was a tad over-etched as you can see that a few sections had to be rescued from the etchant:

50965852371_1bf1355514_b.jpg

 

Where I screwed-up yesterday I think was in not having the residual developer sufficiently washed away after being it exposed to UV. The penny dropped last evening re-reading Steve and Alan's thread on the matter and I realized that I hadn't used a soft brush to waft away any unexposed photoresist from the surface of the brass whilst washing it in water. I had sloshed the water around it in the tank, but clearly this isn't enough to remove enough of it and the lesson was learned the hard way - you could clearly see it washing away this time in dark wisps as you brushed over the areas concerned.

 

I think the trick is to find that sweet spot between actually removing the unexposed photoresist from the the brass plate without being too aggressive and damaging the exposed stuff you need to remain: I was still a bit too timid with the brushing this morning - there's some little bits of brass 'coral' remaining in places where I hadn't fully washed away the unexposed photoresist, most evidently evident in areas like the rainshedding dividers for the windscreen on either side of the larger IP:

50965958862_1baeb1cfed_b.jpg

Overall though I think this is nearly there, and certainly good enough to use in test fits going forward:

50965145348_8a909e075a_b.jpg

It was only looking a that photo above that I belatedly noticed I've only done one of those lattice-y things for the wingfold mechnaism, so I'll need to go back and add a second one for the other wing into the design during the week.

 

Other changes I introduced to the methodology this time around as well was to follow the advice ( which I'd overlooked) of many people in having the printed side of the mask in contact with the brass, plus, I was able to reduce the amount of time the brass was submerged in etchant by standing the tank in a hot water bath, bringing the etching time down by about 25-30%.

 

If I can find enough time towards the end of the week I'll have another go at finessing the etch, but at least I've got a working version now to carry on with test assembling XN708.

 

Frome wasn't built in a day....

:bye:

Tony

 

PS. Did you watch the Perseverance landing during the week? I must confess to being a complete geek when it comes to planetary probes and this time round had the live feed from JPL patched through onto the plasma in the living room for a family landing party:

50957037237_d8e043b7a9_c.jpg

Go Percy!

(NASA press conference tomorrow with - hopefully :fingerscrossed: - video & audio of the descent!)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Another splendid Sunday update with added good results and a display of snacks and casual footwear. Wonderful, thanks.

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47 minutes ago, TheBaron said:

PS. Did you watch the Perseverance landing during the week?

 

Yeah baby! I can't wait to see if Ingenuity can actually fly in the highly rarefied atmosphere of Mars. Imagine a GoPro strapped to a drone flying through Valles Marineris - that I hope I live long enough to livestream.   :)

 

Cheers,

Bill

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Well...I certainly admire the patience and the perseverance to try new procedures like photo etching.

Anyway after having gone this far with a 3D printed kit , you had to give it a try with photoetching!!!

And the results you're getting are outstanding!!!

What's left then?....oh yes...decals!!!!! 

I'll be waiting for the next update!!!!

Ciao

Massimo

 

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3 hours ago, TheBaron said:

Or something: I just made that up and it sounds annoyingly New Age-y!

Ok Tony, but New Age music didn't sound so bad till now:

architecturemorality.jpg

 

 

 

Cheers Benedikt and not annoyed about "New age" music and some other things, but quite conventional or maybe conservative at some basic things in general.

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PE looking much better now, Tony :clap2:

 

Nice slippers too :D :D

 

Ciao 

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Great stuff Tony and I'm glad you found the problem…

Loving that i/p, excellent stuff. :) 

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With the weekend's hetching psychodrama hopefully resolved now (I'll bung another lot on at the end of the week to check that's ironed out any remaining creases), I've been footering around in odd moments continuing to check the fit of parts and assembly sequences. Good news in the main, which I'll get to after ⬇️

On 21/02/2021 at 15:42, Pete in Lincs said:

a display of snacks and casual footwear.

Does it get any more debonair than that Pete? :rofl:

On 21/02/2021 at 15:57, Navy Bird said:

Imagine a GoPro strapped to a drone flying through Valles Marineris

Those visions appear in my head too sometimes Bill. 😁

This rather well-known Viking frame of the morning fog in the Noctis Labyrinthus has haunted my imagination for decades:

Noctis_Labyrinthus.jpg

On 21/02/2021 at 16:08, Massimo said:

Anyway after having gone this far with a 3D printed kit , you had to give it a try with photoetching!!!

It's a Sea Vixen Massimo; resin alone is insufficient for such majesty! 😁

On 21/02/2021 at 16:08, Massimo said:

What's left then?....oh yes...decals!!!!! 

Ah yes my friend, decals!

 

It's purely a personal preference but having used the process over the last few builds, I don't see myself going back from masking and painting markings to using decals here - or in there future -  for the most part. I just find they look better for my purposes painted like the real thing in terms of surface integration when the light hits them, especially from strongly oblique angles.

 

On XN708 there's nothing I can see present in terms of letters and roundels that Oramask won't let me airbrush on, although XJ481 does seem to have a much smaller non-standard tail number in some Martel shots that may go below the do-able size threshold for painting. Certainly at 1/72 I think decals remain the only way to go for things like those littlle red danger triangles and other associated airframe labels (and the RR plaque on the engines!). I am concerned though to cater for all tastes, so if anyone is looking for one of these kits, it seems only fair to provide a choice of either masks or else a digital download of everything in decal form for those who prefer to print up said markings themselves.

 

On 21/02/2021 at 18:46, bbudde said:

Ok Tony, but New Age music didn't sound so bad till now:

architecturemorality.jpg

 

 

It's sad to see the state of OMD these days Benedikt - they've really let themselves go....

50972115118_3fb51cb13d_c.jpg

On 21/02/2021 at 20:03, giemme said:

Nice slippers too

Thanks G! 😁

1:1 scale and gently weathered....

On 21/02/2021 at 20:28, Martian said:

Humans if they're too cheeky!

:rofl2:

8 hours ago, CedB said:

I'm glad you found the problem…

Loving that i/p, excellent stuff.

Thanking-you Ced; it stills needs tidying up the next time around but I think stroking my parts with a brush for a bit longer to get rid of unexposed developer will provide the necessary finish....

 

Anyhoo.

 

Some adventures in test-fit-land to relate, along with notes on any adjustments needed for the actual aircraft next time around.

 

Rear exhaust/turbine section added to the Avons now:

50972097698_301c496e04_b.jpg

I really pleased with the overall crispness of these engines now - despite the pain of that lost 7-10 days resolving all the resin printing problems, it's paid dividends in teaching me a lot about balancing exposure times with levels of detail required. The details inside of that rear section:

50972892677_3d3ef4444d_b.jpg

 - and up at the front:

50972892682_616c50aa21_b.jpg

 - also retain excellent levels of sharpness on the fan blades for example. If the exposure levels for the resin were overdone, it's areas like this that would be first to show the damage in terms of blurred/soft detail in such key areas, akin to an out of focus photo.

 

Next up I wanted to dip my toe into the multimedia side of the build for the first time by making a start on the seating:

50972892627_fa09063f4e_b.jpg

As an aside, a  tool I find indispensable for working with brass these days is a set of parallel pliers:

50972785896_aff9580f04_b.jpg

It lets easily you hold sections of brass flat between the jaws when filing, or even as a vice to flatten any accidentally bent bits along the way.

 

Broken down into their major components then, you can see that these MB Mk.4s consist of the seat pan, the vertical seat beams, and associated upholstery:

50973724591_f0ffb5a3ce_b.jpg

There are as you can see some visual differences between the pilot and observer seat being shown here: To my astonishment - and no doubt yours - the fit of the upholstery sections  into their respective pans was nigh-on perfect. Observer on left, pilot on right:

50972785931_4d33bed2c8_b.jpg

Those seat raising levers on the right hand side are on the cusp of printability in terms of size and strength, but make for a nice visual contrast of structure against the brasswork I think:

50972892772_34d133f012_b.jpg

If a chap were to be particularly pedantic, said chap could use some lengths of wire or cotton to represent the elastic bungee cord type things on the inner sides of those seat beams (presumably to launch the seat clear of the aircraft)- a detail I only recently became aware of  from studying seat schematics. I forgot to take a shot of the pilot's seat from the front as part of the drap of upholstery from the top sections (the bit with the shoulder wings) down onto the seat cushion proved too fragile to print. It's easily compensated for by using a short length of washi tape in its place to create the fall/fold of material so not something to worry about unduly. The Obs. seat fixed into place:

50972097828_d9b2c37945_b.jpg

In terms of building materials, I used CA to glue to brass seat pans to their surrounding resin counterparts as for some reason the Gator's Grip didn't want to know; the seat rails were however bonded to the cockpit floor using resin and laser, the preferred method for resin to resin joins of this kind.

 

From here I moved onto the nose section itself, adding he bass IP to the PAS section and attaching this to the opening for the pilot:

50972892797_353f0cca03_b.jpg

I had to file the brass of that IP down a little at each end so that it would fit, so I think I need to adjust the PE design before printing out masks next time to make the periphery of it slightly smaller. It should be possible though to add a sliver of transparency to the top of that PAS structure to represent the angled glass projector screen. Also visible in he above shot is the fact I also for some reason seem to have printed a version of the nose that didn't have locating holes for the canopy frame, so will need to re-export that from Fusion into the output inventory....

 

Next in line then was the main run of brass panels from bneath the PAS, doglegging back between the two cockpits and bending round to frame the AI.18 screen on the observer's side:

50972892832_3c1fc5c265_b.jpg

These structures all integrate surprising well around each other, though I will have to remove about 1.5mm at the rear of that middle  brass section where it hides the locating hole for the AI.18 drum to fit in against the main console: it'd be frankly surprising to to end up without a snag sheet of such issues at this preliminary stage wouldn't it?

 

Big nail biter though was always going to be: will this assemblage actually fit inside the fuselage though?

By God it did first time, without any adjustment needed!

50972892837_17fd3dd6f3_b.jpg

Elated by this discovery, I went on to add the rear of the cockpit floor along with the observer's seat:

50972097838_9aa0c23fcc_b.jpg

This too fit first time, though - due to the height of the Obs. seat and central divider, you need to slightly tilt that section to slide it forwards and then rotate it back vertical again one in place - the resin is plenty strong enough to withstand the modest handling involved. As originally envisaged, there isn't room to fit the pilot's seat in from the rear so this slides down into place from above once the rear cockpit is installed. Not unexpectedly perhaps, the width tolerances inside there are of the gnat's whisker variety so you do have to sacrifice the seat raising lever on the pliot's MB4, a detail invisible from outside anyway so not something I'll lose any sleep over:

50972786071_0e6a9d3731_b.jpg

 

50972786051_b70b053f2a_b.jpg

I haven't fixed the Obs. door permanently in place yet as it's too easily broken off during subsequent assembly and painting but to give an overall impression of detailing in this area so far:

50972786111_d45185d92e_b.jpg

Still to add on top there are the LABS boxes in front of the canopy bulkhead on the pilot's side, as well as a strut/rod thing that penetrates it.

 

Whilst the brass was out, the nose section was joined to the rear fuselage and ventral strakes added to the airbrake:

50972802948_6e19d8e25f_b.jpg

The previous changes made at the design stage to the openings for these strakes to fit into worked well in allowing them to fit first time, resin here acting as both adhesive and filler around them:

50972802953_ca449574fa_b.jpg

Finally then tonight I stuck the underside of the nose along with all its radar and cockpit gubbins into place:

50972802958_d856e93973_b.jpg

On the actuall build I'll leave the radar dish and protruding mount off during building and painting as it will prove another hostage to fortune in the breakage stakes:

50973491661_d8b8d015ed_b.jpg

 

The weather is in utter foment here at the moment - I'm a connoisseur of ghost suns that you get just before a storm hits (living in Ireland you kind of have to be...). This from last night:

50972892902_2d63906bab_b.jpg

Tonight there was the most epic Biblical red sunset I've ever seen, skies of flame and blood in the John Martin style - I'll shove a picture up in the next epsiode.

 

Thanks as always for enduring the prattling etc.

Stay safe and keep 'em peeled.

:bye:

Tony

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 2/21/2021 at 10:46 AM, bbudde said:

Ok Tony, but New Age music didn't sound so bad till now:

architecturemorality.jpg

 

 

 

Cheers Benedikt and not annoyed about "New age" music and some other things, but quite conventional or maybe conservative at some basic things in general.

i routinely shuffle songs by OMD and have not yet heard anything objectionable.

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51 minutes ago, TheBaron said:

Thanking-you Ced; it stills needs tidying up the next time around but I think stroking my parts with a brush for a bit longer to get rid of unexposed developer will provide the necessary finish....

Now look here! are you just taunting poor @CedB ? It's widely known that the supply of dried frog pills is running short in this present medical shenanigans.

 

The Bungee cords would be for vertical seat adjustment. Hence the lever on the RH side. None of yer motorised stuff back then.

 

The fit of everything is a wonder to behold and testament to your hard work. Carry that chap, with pride!

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Wow, what an update, I am very happy for you as that successful test fitting trials must make you one very happy Baron indeed.  That is wonderful and is a testament to the work you have put in and tried to explain,  which I still don't understand 🤪

Great work fella 

Chris

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Incredible work Tony, wish I could be more verbose, but simply incredible, kinda looks more impressive (as if that was possible) as the bits are going together.

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I think you are showing the future for this hobby, what ultimately will happen is more and more will be able to create their own models, especially if you have the knowledge to do it that is

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Marvelous. Bloody marvelous.

 

Right. We're fed up looking at grey stuff.  When are you going to get some coloring in done on this?

 

 

 

I can only imagine the elation you must feel at getting to this stage Tony, especially as you mentioned, pretty much everything fits as intended or with only the slightest of adjustments.  Those engine details are just astounding aren't they?   

Even though I've printed off literally hundreds of parts on my printer, that feeling you get as you go to remove the build plate and see what's hanging off there makes me feel like a child on Xmas morning every time

I wonder if any of the mainstream kit manufacturers will ever consider including 3D printed parts as part of a multimedia kit?  Injection molding is certainly a great medium, but there are some instances where 3D printing just beats it hands down.

 

 

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18 hours ago, TheBaron said:

John Martin

Been a fan for 50 years now since seeing "The Great Day of His Wrath" in a colour supplement, and I used to pop into the "Old Tate" whenever I went past just to get a refresher, before they rearranged it all. His brother set fire to York Cathedral, so quite a family!

 

Did I mention that the Vixen is amazing? Well it is. Even though you have shown us the step by step on the screen, the physical object is a thing of beauty.

 

Regards,

Adrian

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10 hours ago, kev67 said:

I think you are showing the future for this hobby, what ultimately will happen is more and more will be able to create their own models, especially if you have the knowledge to do it that is

couldn't agree more.  That being said, every modeller should have several 3D printers in the workspace and to heck with the fumes! ;)

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Outstanding simply OUTSTANDING Tony!

Hat well and truly tipped Sir

 

 Stay safe            Roger 

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Just outstanding.

 

Better indeed than that but my poor depleted vocabulary no longer has better superlatives.

 

I'm, as they say, loving it.

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I don't know how many times I've used the word "IMPRESSIVE" on this thread, but this seems like another good occasion for that; the level of detail you achieved with the front fuselage is just outstanding, and so is the engine. The PE parts are just like the icing on the cake. :worthy:  :worthy:

 

Now you will probably begin to hear the chant:

 

We Want Paint!

We Want Paint!

We Want Paint!

We Want Paint!

 

 

:D

 

Ciao

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19 hours ago, David H said:

routinely shuffle songs by OMD and have not yet heard anything objectionable.

No David, neither nor for me too. Always a great band of my youth till now for me. Great songs, great lyrics and great sound of course.

Cheers

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