TheBaron Posted November 28, 2021 Author Share Posted November 28, 2021 Just noticed that this thread is on the cusp of reaching a century and have forgotten what happens at this point: do I have to send the Mods a plum cake and some appreciative comments about the standard of policing on the ground, or is it that you leap naked over the wicket in a souvenir @Martian face mask and 'Sponsored by Bulmers' written along your tentacle? Dickie Davis would know. Ah. The more raucous crowd members have been throwing suggestions onto the pitch: On 20/11/2021 at 14:56, Teuchter said: Great work on the engines! Don, my thanks to you. On 20/11/2021 at 15:39, hendie said: Sheer admiration for you in regards to the perseverance and attention to detail in getting such a wonderfully realistic app re a tree ancestors on those Avons Tony. What the heck??? How on earth did appearance turn into that statement? (But that was so off the wall I decided to leave it). 🤣 On 20/11/2021 at 15:39, hendie said: May I suggest that you look into procuring some differing SWG's of stainless steel wire for your pipery? Aside from the fuse stuff, various trips to Dublin over the summer have resulted in a veritable Viking hoard of different gauge wires: On 20/11/2021 at 15:39, hendie said: I can tell you that you are in for several hours of entertainment on an unprecedented level Best order some eye drops now *wonders about mixing eye drops with oil paint for metal effects... On 20/11/2021 at 17:09, Brandy said: Just paint the damn thing! 😁 Paradoxically that's what I'm trying to avoid doing Ian -at least as far as metal painting goes. I'm finding that a good single base metal can be altered in a whole range of ways using variable polishing and staining, rather than airbrushing several different metal paints as I would have done in the past. On 20/11/2021 at 19:14, bigbadbadge said: Those engines look sweet, you efforts to achieve a wonderful finish to each is fantastic, great work. Cheers Chris. And I've just discovered there's a thing called 'flexible chrome film' as well that looks like it might be worth a punt on! 😆 On 20/11/2021 at 19:53, Pete in Lincs said: I note that there is no heat staining (blue/yellow etc) on that real one. The closest it comes to such effects Pete is a strong umber staining around the rear of the engine exhaust chamber in any shots that I've seen. On 20/11/2021 at 19:53, Pete in Lincs said: I hope you've noticed and reproduced the manufacturers data and Mod state plate just above it. I have actually processed a graphic for the RR manufacturers plate that sits on the compressor housing, yet I fear at 1/72 it'll be a rather fruitless exercise making a decal for it in terms of legibility. On 20/11/2021 at 20:47, Ex-FAAWAFU said: I’d ask him for a couple of Gnomes… but something tells me they’d be more likely to have fishing rods than inlet guide vanes! I will of course be designing and printing one for my future Sea King build Crisp. 😁 On 20/11/2021 at 21:23, Pete in Lincs said: Or that rude one with the lowered trousers... It still counts as as a fishing rod... On 22/11/2021 at 08:58, giemme said: Like it? I love it! G. More in a few minutes. 10 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendie Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 I added a preemptive like, cos I know I'll like what's coming 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 42 minutes ago, TheBaron said: Just noticed that this thread is on the cusp of reaching a century and have forgotten what happens at this point: do I have to send the Mods a plum cake and some appreciative comments about the standard of policing on the ground, or is it that you leap naked over the wicket in a souvenir @Martian face mask and 'Sponsored by Bulmers' written along your tentacle? Dickie Davis would know. Sounds more like the sort of thing @general melchett would be more familiar with. Best ask him, General! Martian 👽 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBaron Posted November 28, 2021 Author Share Posted November 28, 2021 On 22/11/2021 at 09:25, Fritag said: I think I’d seen without appreciating just how yellow/green the back end casings of so many jet engines are. Now that I've had to pay closer attention to such matters, it's extra-ordinary the sheer range of hues and tones that seem to lurk around the average jet engine! On 22/11/2021 at 09:25, Fritag said: Airbrushed oils and yellow ochre and raw umber? Not untypically left field inventivenesses Thanks Steve. I started to realize a while back that many of the colours on something like an Avon are only partly to do with the metals concerned and whatever lubricants/fuel have been either spilled/leaked onto in either liquid or gaseous form, the other half of the equation being how light interacts with metal (i.e, what gives it a typical 'metal' appearance in terms of varying in looks according to the lighting angle) through the varying transparency of these overlaid materials. Airbrushing them on finely like this in a series of almost transparent layers avoids that problem I always had in the past using oil washes on engine metals (where you tend to get the colour collecting heavily in angles and corners and thereby producing unrealistic levels of contrast) but still allowing you to mix variations of colour directly onto the engine without messing up the previous layer. It's still very crude in many ways, but better than my previous efforts in this field. On 22/11/2021 at 09:25, Fritag said: Absolutely intrigued by the possibilities from airbrushing oils. I’ve never really thought they thinned to a nice even consistency - so must have a go. As the good General mentioned above, you need the good stuff like Winsor & Newton (so that the pigments have been ground down really fine) but it dilutes beautifully for airbrushing to produce a perfect tinting medium for metalwork (or indeed for any other situation where you want tints without heavy contrasts of pigment gathering in the corners). On 22/11/2021 at 09:41, perdu said: Wow! MESSAGE ENDS 😁 Message received and appreciated Bill. On 22/11/2021 at 10:20, general melchett said: Hope you don't mind me interjecting here with a Daguerreotype of one of the TF-30s. Not in the least mon general: an impressive shaft that displays your magnificent plumbing! On 22/11/2021 at 10:20, general melchett said: Still have to apply the 'burnt' yellow/blues and sepia using Pigma Brush 'archival ink' pens I haven't seen those before - will buy a set for Mrs. B for Christmas so that I get a chance to test them... On 22/11/2021 at 13:55, Terry1954 said: Bare or anodised metal has always been a challenge to model in a way that looks real, It was giving me nightmares in the run up to painting these Terry for exactly the reasons you outline. On 22/11/2021 at 13:55, Terry1954 said: And as Steve has pointed out, that green/yellow finish at the back of many engine is so obvious, yet who would have thought of actually painting it that way! A bit of rough-handling between coats doesn't actually hurt either as it can introduce a few randomized scuffs and rubbings here and there of the kind that you see in photos of the Avon, where either the ground crew or various bits of machinery have up rubbed against the surfaces during maintenance. 1 hour ago, hendie said: I added a preemptive like, cos I know I'll like what's coming You sure? It's still not too late to change your mind! 😁 Modest progress then this week, with attention paid to the front half of the engine now, from the black compressor casing forward. The intention at this stage is to get the gross appearance of the engine 'thereabouts', prior adding any additional detailing. As I mentioned in replying to Terry above, I'm not worried about any scuffing of the oil paint layers on those rear sections, as these'll receive a final tidy up just prior to installing the engines in the fuselage. For the same reason the existing pipework won't have it's metallics finalized until I've finished with any need to further handle the engines. Speaking of pipework though, I rebuilt the sections that got broken off during polishing: This took some fancy 3d bending in the rig and with tweezers but once in place, any differences in colour between the new fuse wire sections and existing pipework are minimal: That's the overall appearance blocked-in from rear to tip. There's a number fittings around the flame tube like oil and fuel pumps need painting black, and then it's down to the serious business of adding additional plumbing and wiring around such fittings on the compressor and flame tube. Only once those jobs are done will I do the final painting of details like the air bleed valve (that silver panel against the black compressor casing in the last photo above) and then the final oil paint patinas will get applied. The anti-icing manifold for example is currently too shiny at present and will benefit from that sort of treatment. I've been experimenting also on an engine mule in terms of how to emphasize the fan-like structure of the compressor blades when viewed from the front. Previously I would have used something like a Payne's Grey oil wash but noted from tests that such as pigment leaves a slight glisten when the light falls on it that contradicts the presence of shadow. Years ago I stripped down a broken photocopier at work and have had a jar of toner sitting on the shelf all that time, unaware that when you dust said powder into the blade crevices it produces a lovely matte shadow effect of the kind that I need: I'll leave the application of this until the engines are being installed as well. Managed to get a walk along the Shannon with Mrs. B under a winter sun during the week - the shading and textures created by this low light were a form of hypnosis. Hopefully some wiring to show you next time. Or just a series of swear words. Either way, you'll know how it went.... Stay warm. Tony 23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry1954 Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 1 hour ago, TheBaron said: Just noticed that this thread is on the cusp of reaching a century and have forgotten what happens at this point 100 pages, that's not bad, but Dickens's (aka @Fritag) "a Tale of Two Hawks" was steaming through page 140 last time I checked, so still a way to go yet.............. Those two Avons look awesomely splendid Tony, we likes them very much indeed! Terry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 Thanks for that Tony, the reference to the General's shaft and magnificent plumbing has utterly destroyed my appetite for dinner tonight. 🤮 Nauseous of Mars 👽 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spookytooth Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 Congratulations on your century Tony. Nice pair of Avon`s.... too. Stay sane. Simon. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianMF Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 On 22/11/2021 at 10:20, general melchett said: relatively small size of the Avon, all that oomph from a device not much bigger than the memsahib's Hoover Conquest 507 cylinder vacuum cleaner Hmm, ten and a half feet long and three foot wide - cleaning the stairs with the Conquest 507 must be quite interesting to watch… 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendie Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 1 hour ago, Terry1954 said: 100 pages, that's not bad, but Dickens's (aka @Fritag) "a Tale of Two *****" SSHHhhhhhhhhhh... don't mention the H word - you might scare him away and we only just got him back! 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 2 hours ago, Terry1954 said: but Dickens's (aka @Fritag) "a Tale of Two Hawks" was steaming through page 140 last time I checked, so still a way to go yet but let's not forget that half of those pages are dedicated to questions such as "where is he", "where has he gone" or "when will he be back?" Ian 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadbadge Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 The Avona look absolutely superb Tony, as does the atmospheric photo. Great work on both Chris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in Lincs Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 3 hours ago, TheBaron said: A bit of rough-handling between coats doesn't actually hurt either My Auntie was a hat check Girl in the fifties and that's not how she remembers it... 3 hours ago, TheBaron said: I've been experimenting also on an engine mule I've seen those RSPA adverts on the telly, I'm ringing them right now! Interestingly (or not) old RAF slang for an engine was a Donk or Donkey. 2 hours ago, Martian said: the reference to the General's shaft and magnificent plumbing has utterly destroyed my appetite for dinner tonight Such a shame. I've seen the menu, it was to be German sausage... Oh well, if you must think the Wurst... 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianMF Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 20 minutes ago, Pete in Lincs said: My Auntie was a hat check Girl in the fifties Trying to get coffee out of my nose now. Pure comedy gold! 😂 Adrian 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Learstang Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 (edited) 100 pages - Mazel Tov! Don't you get a regimental tie or something? That is a nice b/w photograph, by the way. It looks like a rock album cover. And to use that hoary* old phrase that I know no one is sick of hearing 'those engines are kits in themselves'. Best Regards, Jason * And General, do not get yourself in an uproar; this word does not refer to what you think it does. Les dames de la nuit are not involved in any way (more's the pity)! Edited November 28, 2021 by Learstang Additional comment added. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritag Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 (edited) Congrats on 100 'proper' pages of content Tony Oh - and on producing a pair of right 'proper' looking Avons too Edited November 29, 2021 by Fritag 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 17 hours ago, TheBaron said: That's the overall appearance blocked-in from rear to tip. I'm in awe Ciao 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry1954 Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 14 hours ago, AdrianMF said: Trying to get coffee out of my nose now. Pure comedy gold! 😂 Adrian Me too although substitute coffee with porridge! You should be on the stage Pete @Pete in Lincs Terry 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 3 hours ago, Terry1954 said: Me too although substitute coffee with porridge! I do hope you're not due a pcr test anytime soon, could be awkward! Ian 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Swindell Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 2 hours ago, Brandy said: I do hope you're not due a pcr test anytime soon, could be awkward! Ian Would that be a Porridge Comedy Respiration test? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in Lincs Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 9 hours ago, Terry1954 said: You should be on the stage Pete I have a bus pass, will that do? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry1954 Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 1 hour ago, Pete in Lincs said: I have a bus pass, will that do? Wells Fargo I'm guessing? Terry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in Lincs Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 20 hours ago, Terry1954 said: Wells Fargo I'm guessing? Bagsy shotgun! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heloman1 Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 Oh engines and their ancillaries. I remember working on Wessex HU Mk 5's and all the dangly piping that surrounded the main engine body. What a hornets nest!!!! Not to mention the wire locking!!! Colin 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH1969 Posted December 4, 2021 Share Posted December 4, 2021 This is a good watch. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBaron Posted December 5, 2021 Author Share Posted December 5, 2021 December, and it was completely Caspar David F. here yesterday: - whilst today cold but Spring-like under blue crystal skies: the Met Eireann weather app on my phone appears now to be forecasting in heiroglyphs only. On 28/11/2021 at 15:44, Terry1954 said: 100 pages, that's not bad, but Dickens's (aka @Fritag) "a Tale of Two Hawks" was steaming through page 140 last time I checked, so still a way to go yet.............. On 28/11/2021 at 18:02, Brandy said: but let's not forget that half of those pages are dedicated to questions such as "where is he", "where has he gone" or "when will he be back?" Given the utterly unconscionable peer pressure that we're all putting Steven '@Fritag' Hawking under, I think that thread is best called 'Great Expectations' at this point..... 😁 On 28/11/2021 at 16:21, Martian said: Thanks for that Tony, the reference to the General's shaft and magnificent plumbing has utterly destroyed my appetite for dinner tonight. On 28/11/2021 at 16:22, Spookytooth said: Stay sane. You old optimist Simon. On 28/11/2021 at 18:13, bigbadbadge said: The Avona look absolutely superb Tony, as does the atmospheric photo. Great work on both Cheers Chris. Getting down by the water is always good for the spirit, especially in these times. On 28/11/2021 at 18:32, Pete in Lincs said: I've seen those RSPA adverts on the telly, I'm ringing them right now! Interestingly (or not) old RAF slang for an engine was a Donk or Donkey. 😆 That is an interesting bit of folklore Pete. Any idea how that slang came about? On 28/11/2021 at 18:53, AdrianMF said: Trying to get coffee out of my nose now. Cappuccino, the hard way.... On 28/11/2021 at 19:19, Learstang said: 100 pages - Mazel Tov! Don't you get a regimental tie or something? I certainly hope so Jason! The previous method used by the Mods to mark such occasions was a gruff affair indeed: On 28/11/2021 at 19:19, Learstang said: That is a nice b/w photograph, by the way. It looks like a rock album cover. Thanks: I grew up shooting photos on Ilford FP4 in the 80s and never really took to colour tbh... On 29/11/2021 at 09:04, Fritag said: Congrats on 100 'proper' pages of content Tony How anyone can keep a straight face and refer to one of my threads as 'proper' defeats me Steve. (Thanks though 😄) On 29/11/2021 at 09:13, giemme said: I'm in awe You're a very nice man Giorgio. (I couldn't find any blue so used a lavender backdrop for today's photos instead in your honour.) On 30/11/2021 at 18:56, heloman1 said: I remember working on Wessex HU Mk 5's and all the dangly piping that surrounded the main engine body. What a hornets nest!!!! After the last 48 hrs I can now relate to this intimately Colin. 😁 14 hours ago, PeteH1969 said: This is a good watch. All that needs now is Peter Jackson to remaster it... Nothing doing all week at the bench so I cleared the decks this weekend to grab some time attending to the pipework. My visual 'map' of the Avon 208s suffers from having little in the way of detailed information about pipes and fittings on the underneath of the engine so a bit like glimpsing features around the limb of the moon during a favourable libration, I've had to infer from what I can glimpse from low-res and side on photographs and matching details as best as possible to the Avon maintenance manual I've got for an earlier mark that has large areas of commonality regarding function (if not actually shape). The main areas receiving attention were: 1. About midway along the engine where the compressor outlet mates with the combustion chamber, the ring of (what I assume) to be the feed pipes for the burners. 2. Superimposed on 1) running up and over from the port side of the engine, pipework feeding into the port and starboard anti-icing gate valves. 3. On the starboard side of the engines, various LP & HP fuel feed, return, drain pipes connecting to the air bleed valve from the fuel pump &etc. (Do you like the 'etc. there to indicate that there's doubtless much more going on there than this mechanical ignoramus comprehends...) Prior to attempting these, the various glossy black parts like fuel pump, sump, generator etc. that cluster around the compressor stages got treated with flt black and a topcoat of Aqua Gloss. Initially I started off methodically building a template for each section of pipe before rapidly coming a cropper due to the baroque contours of the engine when it comes to bending wire in three-dimensions to fit. Using a combination of rolling rig and those sharp Pixnor pliers many of us went mad and bought a while back: - it was much easier to shape each part to the engine individually, gradually working your way forward along the combustion chamber: I didn't bother with any 'in progress' shots of these jobs over the last couple of days as it's not terribly interesting having to look at photos showing what appear to be minimal structural progress but which represent a significant and creative level of obscene monologue. The results: resort to fiction. As anticipated, the repeated handlings involved in completing this set of tasks has rubbed off a considerable amount of the patina on the metal from the compressor outlet back to the exhaust: there's no point touching that up until the engines are safely in their bays now. In true Britmodeller tradition I also managed to break off the two sections of pipework over the compressor section that I'd repaired previously.: I'll whack those back on when I've finished the current phase of detailery also. Despite my best attempts to horribly maul these carbuncled tubes though, they still manage to pick up the sunlight quite nicely: Still some final tidying up still to do around the starter and compressor blades but nearly there now. In connection with the front of the Avons, after seeing the quite stunning work @Brandy did a little while back on the chromework of his Mercedes I lashed out some gelt on one of those Molotow pens. Not sure whether to do a final chrome application on the starter cone with the pen itself, or decant some of the fluid into the airbrush instead. I know you can try it either way but am stupidly nervous at effing up the engines on this last detail. Especially as that detail will be so prominent in the eternal night of the intake ducts where it will wink accusingly if ugly... Hope you had good weekends mes braves. Peace. Tony 19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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