Pete in Lincs Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 Terrible news. You have my condolences. It now looks like a very unloved gate guard airframe. I just use a cheap (Hycote) primer and have never had a probem. Good luck with the new stuff and Hurrah! for the new Polish chap. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark.au Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 (edited) That’s just too bad. It’s hard to remuster the enthusiasm after a hurdle like this, but a hurdle it is, not a barrier. Every time I read about primer disasters it reinforces my commitment to my own painting process which does not include them. Edited March 5, 2022 by mark.au 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsairfoxfouruncle Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 1 minute ago, mark.au said: Every time I read about primer disasters it reinforces my commitment to my own painting process which does not include them. That makes two of us. The only thing I prime is where I've used some sort of filler. That or if the base plastic is the same color as my paint I use a scratch coat of a different color. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 11 minutes ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said: That makes two of us. The only thing I prime is where I've used some sort of filler. Me too (three?). My idea of "primer" is to shoot whatever the main fuselage colour is over the puttied areas, etc. I rarely use specialty primers, even on resin. And to prove how irresponsible I am, I pay no attention to mixing types of paint on a model. Lacquer, enamel, aqueous, etc. - as long as each type is fully cured I have had no trouble painting them on top of each other in any order. Now that I've said that, my next paint job will go completely haywire. Cheers, Bill 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry1954 Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 So I dropped in to catch up starting from the post dated 27th Feb, and things unfolded rather scarily. I think it may have been Ian @Brandy that observed something along the lines of you are indeed a mortal who it seems can suffer from the same modelling gods wrath that the rest of us do on a somewhat much more regular basis. We are not used to such knocks befalling you Tony, BUT we know you have the resolve and most certainly the skill and expertise, to take a breath, have a brew, regroup over time, take a few awesome pictures of that fair island of Ireland and then just carry on ................. and it seems that is what you are doing. Good man. So, no slacking, and on with the job, having reset things back to where you are comfortable to re-start the process and off we go. 🤞 Terry PS I don't like Alcad primer much either! 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 2 minutes ago, Terry1954 said: ...we know you have the resolve and most certainly the skill and expertise, to take a breath, have a brew, regroup over time... The brew is the most important part. Cheers, Bill PS. For an added kick, mix in a smidge of Mr. Color Thinner. (Just kidding - don't try this at home!) 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadbadge Posted March 6, 2022 Share Posted March 6, 2022 Sorry to see this Tony, how gutting. I hope that the mojo is not taking too much of a bashing and that you can sort this. I am heartened to see you have ordered new paint and are stripping as you have invested too much time, and effort to let this get the better of you. I am not able to offer sage advice re the paint etc as am just a brush painter and have no idea with airbrushing etc. Looking forward to seeing it re emerge. Chris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted March 6, 2022 Share Posted March 6, 2022 Tony, sorry you had to strip all the paint off, bit I think you did the right thing. Restarting from fresh will give the best result. Keep going, mate (and yes, good brew helps ) Ciao 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galligraphics Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 On 3/5/2022 at 8:29 PM, Pete in Lincs said: I just use a cheap (Hycote) primer and have never had a probem Yep - me too . No probems… 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritag Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 Jeepers. I was enjoying a stress-free catch up on go-to thread for reliable brilliance; and was just reaching for my thesaurus to see if there were any superlatives lurking that I hadn't yet cornered, trapped and forced into usage; when bam! I was hit by the defective Alclad Grey Primer episode. (Possibly a tad narcissistic to make it all about me I guess, but hey it was very disturbing). All I can say is that you must be very accomplished at counting slowly to 10 before succumbing to blind fury Tony. And I see that the great save is already underway. As I think about it, in all great epic stories the hero has to have set back and obstacles to overcome. Or maybe the next post will be like the infamous Dallas 'shower scene' and like Pam we'll all have dreamed this minor set back? Anyways. Fingers crossed and good luck with it Mate. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBaron Posted March 18, 2022 Author Share Posted March 18, 2022 Good evening all, and I hope this finds you well. I forget how many weeks/days ago I finally got the airframe cleaned-up. Looking back, it all seems rather like the modelling equivalent of Hunter S. Thompson's trip to Vegas... Light scrubbing with a toothbrush dipped in cellulose thinner, followed by a wipe down with moistened cotton pads did excellent service in the end. Replies first though: On 05/03/2022 at 19:52, Anthony in NZ said: air pressure is really important, along with keeping the paint quite thin Exactly! Particularly so here Anthony where things like the witch badges on the tail would lose a lot of outline detail under paint that was too thick. 👍 On 05/03/2022 at 20:29, Pete in Lincs said: It now looks like a very unloved gate guard airframe. My first thought too Pete - or one of those melancholy static airframes left out rotting in the rain.... On 05/03/2022 at 21:01, mark.au said: Every time I read about primer disasters it reinforces my commitment to my own painting process which does not include them. On 05/03/2022 at 21:18, Corsairfoxfouruncle said: That makes two of us. On 05/03/2022 at 21:29, Navy Bird said: Me too (three?). Mark, Dennis & Bill: I owe you three an enormous debt of gratitude in convincing me to ditch the use of primer here altogether. Since resuming modelling a few years back, I'd primed everything without (foolishly) ever questioning the process. A quick paint test on an unprimed mule - along with some masking tests using Tamiya tape and Oramask - showed me that the paint would 'bite' quite happily without priming. In fact when compared to the problems of paint lift I'd had with Alclad's stuff, the unprimed route has turned out far superior. Signed: 'Primer Apostate' 😁 On 05/03/2022 at 21:29, Navy Bird said: to prove how irresponsible I am, I pay no attention to mixing types of paint on a model. Lacquer, enamel, aqueous, etc. - as long as each type is fully cured I have had no trouble painting them on top of each other in any order. Agreed: I would also add tempera (brushed) and oil paint (airbrushed) to this list Bill. On 05/03/2022 at 21:48, Terry1954 said: We are not used to such knocks befalling you Tony, Most kind Terry. 🫂 I think in fairness I've just been lucky up until now - the fact that it takes me so long to finish a build probably means that I've simply had less opportunity for disaster to befall me in the paint dept! Bayes' theorem and all that...😁 On 06/03/2022 at 09:14, bigbadbadge said: Sorry to see this Tony, how gutting. Thanks Chris - one of those things that visits us all at one time or another I guess... On 06/03/2022 at 15:11, giemme said: Restarting from fresh will give the best result. Totally Giorgio. Having to patch up one area of lifted primer simply led to further damage to neighbouring areas ad infinitum.... Plus I can just pretend that the first attempt was 'just practicing'... On 10/03/2022 at 14:42, Fritag said: All I can say is that you must be very accomplished at counting slowly to 10 before succumbing to blind fury Tony. On 10/03/2022 at 14:42, Fritag said: Anyways. Fingers crossed and good luck with it Mate. Bless you Steve - thanks. A few deep breaths and armed with an especially large set of masks, it was time to sally forth: I didn't take too many photos to bore you with a repeat process: no primer this time though, with the paint order: white undersides red maintenance panels edsg ending up as: It wasn't just my imagination that little details like the fairings along the top of the wingfold retained a little more sharpness and definition sans primer... Confident about the absence of paint lift this time around, I stuck to the usual method of masking/painting markings after the main fuselage colours were on: Notwithstanding the abundance of masking involved: - not a single area lifted this time around. Anywhere. The following shots then are with the paintwork in it's raw state - the surfaces all need a buff and polish to get rid of the marks left behinds by the masking: (Just noticed in the above that I've forgotten to take the masking off of the warning triangles on the sides of the cockpit.) The gods smiled this time as I think the only issue with the demarcation lines between white and edsg is a slight wiggle on the underside of the port boom: The slightly complicated dog-leg of white/edsg lines up front from nose to wing were much improved in crispness this time around as well: Perhaps best of all were the various red panel markings on the top - good clean lifts all round: Summary: much improved: Still the outer wing sections to do - initially thought I might be able to get away with not cleaning them off like the airframe but from the amount of paint lift occurring on one of the roundels alone, I realize I'm just going have to to cut to the chase and scrub them clen of primer for a respray also. At least I've a known process to cure the problem this time around. The fusion reactor doing it's usual thing at the end of a beautifully sunny day - astonishing how rapidly it begins to move its setting point northward along the horizon each evening at this tine of year: Be safe until next time, and thanks for your kind words. Tony 24 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spookytooth Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 Tony, I have just caught up with this thread again and have to say great save and recovery on the paint job sir. I have had no real problems with Alcad 2 Primers, although I found that the White version was the weaker of the three. I also noticed that the Grey Version is a lighter Grey... I had no problems with it so far. Stay safe. Simon. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadbadge Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 Oh wow what a wonderful bounce back Tony . This looks flippin awesome fella, great job on the markings . Great work all round. Chris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianMF Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 Verrrry nice recovery. The markings do look flippin' sharp! That combo of red and blue-grey on the "don't step" markings makes my eyes hurt if I look at them too long, like red lettering on green or blue background. The shot of the paint job from above shows off the Küchemann carrot-like appearance of the original Mk1 booms as well. I hadn't picked that up in the previous 110 pages - must pay more attention... Regards, Adrian 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark.au Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 Oh, a thing of precision, elegance and beauty. Happy to see this back on track Tony. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in Lincs Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 43 minutes ago, TheBaron said: Light scrubbing with a toothbrush dipped in cellulose thinner, followed by a wipe down with moistened cotton pads did excellent service in the end. Some mornings it's just more refreshing than a shower. What an excellent result after that huge mess (which we'll never mention again). I agree, I also think 'crisp' is the word. (No, not him. Where is he anyway? All at sea?) My scratchbuilds use such disparate parts/materials that I'll carry on with the Hycote primer, if you don't mind. Besides, it hides the odd scratch & blemish. Now that you're in your stride we should be ready for on deck inspections early next month? Whereas all I've managed to get done this week is spraying unit markings on my Kreiger build. Tsk! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry1954 Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 Supreme recovery I'd say, excellent result and you now have my brain cells thinking "so why do I use primer then 🤔"................ I'll ponder that one and do a few tests myself and may just give it a go without the stuff, the whole thought of which feels quite liberating actually 🤸♂️ Terry 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony in NZ Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 PHEEEEEEWW....I've been checking in every day to see how things were going for you Beautiful save and fantastic result! 10/10. She really looks amazing now. Well done and I can now relax....because it's all about me you know...I dont like stress when I cant do anything about it LOL Great work mate, thanks for the update Cheers Anthony 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 Annnnnd relax It makes me ponder too, the only models I have used primer on always look much 'thicker' than my unprimed ones. Lovely work now Tony, top job. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 Fabulous save Tony, and the letters are straight! I have to admit that my "primer" is usually a coat of white or grey Tamiya acrylic just to even the base colour up, not to prime the surface as such. That reminds me, I suppose I should get a metal primer at some point.... Something for my Telford shopping list perhaps! Ian 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 Brilliant recovery Tony, that's a superb paintjob now! A mate in the model club exclusively paints with Xtracolor enamels with no primer and never has any problems. I keep telling myself to give it a go but always revert to my tried and trusted Mr. Surfacer - can't teach a (very) old dog new tricks I suppose... The only time I used any Alclad primer it was their microfiller stuff. I was a bit heavy handed spraying it and filled in every panel line on the Fujimi Phantom FGR2 I was building!! Don't know if there'd have been any paint lift with it as it went stright to landfill! Keith 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamden Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 As others have said GREAT RESULT on the paintwork after your set back Tony. The finishing line is definitely in sight now Stay safe Roger 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 10 hours ago, keefr22 said: Brilliant recovery Tony, that's a superb paintjob now! A mate in the model club exclusively paints with Xtracolor enamels with no primer and never has any problems. I keep telling myself to give it a go but always revert to my tried and trusted Mr. Surfacer - can't teach a (very) old dog new tricks I suppose... The only time I used any Alclad primer it was their microfiller stuff. I was a bit heavy handed spraying it and filled in every panel line on the Fujimi Phantom FGR2 I was building!! Don't know if there'd have been any paint lift with it as it went stright to landfill! Keith I wish you'd have finished that Phantom, so I could compare the effects with my primered Frog Wessex Keith, godamighty awful over painted because of spraying yellow over primer. This Wessex put the end to me priming as a 'thing', the only one I have primed recently was the Whirlwind and boy did I keep the primer very thin, Humbrol aerosol grey primer for that. 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 14 hours ago, TheBaron said: On 06/03/2022 at 16:11, giemme said: Restarting from fresh will give the best result. Totally Giorgio. Having to patch up one area of lifted primer simply led to further damage to neighbouring areas ad infinitum... See, I told you... I won't comment about the primer/no primer topic, since I am a member of both parishes I will just say that your new paint job looks splendid, top to bottom! Now (and I feel a little dizzy as I'm about to ask, given the duration of this build) what's next? Ciao 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritag Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 (edited) Lovely paintwork Tony. Such an innovative and impressive design and construction project deserves, nay demands, top quality finishing and it’s obvious that you’re the man for the job. It was never in doubt mind I confess that, armed now with a modicum of newly acquired Fusion, Chitubox and Eelegoo knowledge, I’ve been re-reading this magnificent from page 1; and it’s been both wonderfully educational and increased my admiration several-fold. I now believe that, whilst I thought that I was impressed first time around, I was nowhere near as impressed as I ought to have been (and am now) Edited March 19, 2022 by Fritag 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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