Sea Vixen FAW.1x2

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

2 hours ago, Brandy said:

Now I'm confused and not at all sure which is more weird:

1) RAF and Navy agreeing

2) ketchup on a meat pie

3) Government issue bog roll/tracing paper. (I do know that it is much more useful as tracing paper!)

4) Cockpit rubbing. (Although maybe that was just to stop them rubbing  things they shouldn't....)

 

I'm going for a pint and a ponder.

 

Ian

1.  Hendie and me agreeing.  Let’s not get carried away and apply it to the whole Service, or decades of training in Crab-baiting will have gone to waste.

2.  I am not qualified to comment.  I admit that this usually doesn’t stop me, but on this occasion…. [Mmm; pie].

3.  I still remember the first time I encountered this stuff, at the Admiralty Interview Board at HMS Sultan in Gosport.  I was a deeply-impressionable 15-year-old.  I had seen Izal [“a healthy sign!” - I even remember their slogan…] before, but this stuff had a broad arrow stamped on every sheet.  Pusser’s bog roll.  Arrow presumably to deter theft.  As if anyone in their right mind would steal that stuff.  Though perhaps the arrow was… 

4.  …designed to deter un-licensed cockpit rubbers.

 

If you’ve gone for a ponder, may I recommend that you give the Izal a wide berth?

 

[Tony, for the love of Mike do some more modelling; this is turning into one of @Martian’s threads.  The General will be along in a moment; you just see.]

[giemme]

On 29/12/2021 at 20:53, TheBaron said:

I take it you have one too Giorgio?

You bet!   It wss @Cookenbacher that talked me into it, and was he right!

 

Sensational sequence of updates, I've just played catch-up with them!   Shaping up properly now  

 

Ciao

[Pete in Lincs]

6 hours ago, giemme said:

Sensational sequence of updates, I've just played catch-up with them

I'll second that. I've been away from the keyboard/internet for a few days and suffered withdrawal symptoms with added stress.

I'll be okay after a few days. (I'm on hollibobs from work) so don't worry about me. Save your selves!

BTW, Don't they have brown sauce in New Zealand? Most odd.

[Anthony in NZ]

3 hours ago, Pete in Lincs said:

BTW, Don't they have brown sauce in New Zealand? Most odd.

LOL, only if it is the BBQ version!  True, but most are red

 

You better give us another update soon to get us all back on track.....I can feel the angry mob with pitchforks and torches are in my street!

[TheBaron]

'The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents...'

H.P.Lovecraft

 

Indeed, not unlike this thread of late....

 

On 04/01/2022 at 16:48, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

[Tony, for the love of Mike do some more modelling; this is turning into one of @Martian’s threads.  The General will be along in a moment; you just see.]

Apologies Crisp.

Damned blast deflector came up prematurely as I was manoeuvering onto the catapult:

^{Image credit: Clockwork Cosmos}

On 03/01/2022 at 21:04, Anthony in NZ said:

Seriously...you dont put tomato sauce on your meat pie??? 

Interpol has been notified. 🚔

On 04/01/2022 at 12:46, Terry1954 said:

ehem,...... where were we...

Where we usually are Terry, where we usually are.....

On 04/01/2022 at 13:42, Brandy said:

4) Cockpit rubbing. (Although maybe that was just to stop them rubbing  things they shouldn't....)

Frottage is such an ambiguous word in this context....

On 05/01/2022 at 09:34, giemme said:

You bet!   It wss @Cookenbacher that talked me into it, and was he right!

I feel like I've joined a select club of painters now Giorgio. 😁

On 05/01/2022 at 16:04, Pete in Lincs said:

I've been away from the keyboard/internet for a few days and suffered withdrawal symptoms with added stress.

I'll be okay after a few days. (I'm on hollibobs from work) so don't worry about me.

Hope all is well Pete?

On 05/01/2022 at 19:14, Anthony in NZ said:

You better give us another update soon to get us all back on track.....I can feel the angry mob with pitchforks and torches are in my street!

Egad! They're getting closer!

 

Purely to ingratiate myself with the crowd then, the booms seams are all tidied up and rudders/elevators added:

The trailing edges of those fins and rudders are so wafer thin:

 - that I had a lot of trouble back on XJ481 with my continual clumsy damage to them during handling. This time around the penny dropped and I've added some protective foil to hopefully keep them safe whilst I still need to fiddle around with the airframe prior to paint:

Having sorted out the booms and fins I was then able to move onto the next stage back there of fitting the Avons into their respective engine bays:

Most obvious first step was to double check I'd not got the port and starboard engines muddled up: luckily the pipework over the top of the engines is distinctive enough though to aid in identifying which is which. The clearance between engines and bays is almost non-existent (as it is on the real thing) which does make for a nice snug fit but also for a nerve-wracking time getting them oriented and clipped into position. I obviously wanted to avoid breaking off any parts at this stage as well as trying not to muck up the patinas on the metals too much (although some minor wear and tear was anticipated) 

 

After a few deep breaths and pauses to take stock, they were eventually in and I took a valedictory shot from the rear before this aspect is permanently hidden by the exhaust fairings:

I'd gotten kind of attached to having that pair of Avons up on the shelf like a talisman so it was weirdly a bit sad to finally cover them in:

Fit wise, with the engines actually installed, the fairing are nice and flush for the most part at the top, but underneath there was a slight (by slight I mean about 0.4mm) gap along the join, which I think may have been cause by the rear lip of the engines protruding just a little further back than the join line. Rather than risk any inadvertent damage to the engines at this late stage in the process of sanding or filing anything off I decided to leave it as is and use a dribble of resin along the seam as filler.

 

Engine interfaces:

 

Some minor damage to the visuals of the engines on their top surface but nothing that can't be touched up at a later stage. This is her tonight then:

I'll work on cleaning up the outer wing sections and radome tomorrow, all being well.

 

Thanks for looking in as always.

 

A stunning moonset/Jupiterset last evening:

Bitter cold and clear. Managed to get a closer shot through binoculars earlier using the smartphone:

Never gets old.

Well, it's a young moon, but you know what I mean....

 

Tony

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Pete in Lincs]

4 minutes ago, TheBaron said:

Hope all is well Pete?

Just a post Crimbo few days in Leicester with the family. The closest that Mum has to the internet is a net shopping bag bought in 1978.

I appreciate your concern. Mum's chilled, I'm chilled, and now, back on the case here in plastic La La land. I just wish it were warmer.

On a day like today, (weather wise), if I was out delivering, I'd be wishing I were home. Well I was, and the model shed got a darn good tidy up.

 

10 minutes ago, TheBaron said:

wafer thin:

I thought I'd seen Mr Creosote on the way in here. "Yes, Henri, my usual table, and a vintage bottle of brown sauce, silver plate, mange tout, etc".

They are a work of art though. And the Donks look so comfy in there. Night Night Donks. See you in the morning. 💤

 

[bigbadbadge]

Great to see those lovely engines in place and the tailbooms on too. Great job Tony

 

Chris

[Navy Bird]

2 hours ago, TheBaron said:

Never gets old.

 

You got that right. Neither looking at the heavens or at your Sea Vixen(s).     🔭

 

Cheers,

Bill

[hendie]

2 hours ago, TheBaron said:

and I took a valedictory shot from the rear

 

Ced, our dear friend Ced. Wherefore art thou dear Ced?    You are so sorely missed

[hendie]

Marvelous work Tony. Everything looks like it just belongs...

[keefr22]

If it were possible, I'd say those engines look even better snuggled up in their new home...

 

More lovely work on Vixen Tony, looking forward to seeing the engines contrasted against a nice coat of paint ob the airframe!

 

Last night's waxing crescent did look particularly splendid for some reason - maybe because we had a clear moonlit sky for what seemed to have been the first time this century....!!

 

Keith

[giemme]

On 07/01/2022 at 11:39, keefr22 said:

If it were possible, I'd say those engines look even better snuggled up in their new home.

I couldn't agree more! They look stunning in place!  

 

Ciao 

[k5054nz]

Those engines...WOW!!!

[TheBaron]

Sunday morning in rural Ireland.

 

Due to CV-19 the local priest continues to broadcast Mass to the village via Tannoys affixed to the outside of the church. Whatever spirituality he intends is utterly warped by an unfortunate combination of chronic diction and ancient sound system that transforms his voice into the mesmerizingly horrific Sardaukar chant from the Dune film.

 

On rainy days the picture is complete.

 

The spice bags must flow...

 

 

Aside from beard grooming and kneeling in the rain, progress has been additionally slowed over the weekend by:

 

a)duvet cover shopping

b)Mrs B's car expiring for good

c)gross over-indulgence at a Portuguese bakery.

 

Finally arrived home yesterday to be confronted by half the Atlantic flying in droplet formation and approaching at speed from the West:

Apocalyptic darkness and tumult ensued: the inner Goth was at peace.

 

On 06/01/2022 at 18:47, Pete in Lincs said:

Just a post Crimbo few days in Leicester with the family. The closest that Mum has to the internet is a net shopping bag bought in 1978.

I appreciate your concern. Mum's chilled, I'm chilled, and now, back on the case here in plastic La La land. I just wish it were warmer.

On a day like today, (weather wise), if I was out delivering, I'd be wishing I were home. Well I was, and the model shed got a darn good tidy up.

Sound like time well spent all round Pete.

 

I intended to do some hoovering at the weekend, but the mood passed....

 

On 06/01/2022 at 19:36, bigbadbadge said:

Great to see those lovely engines in place and the tailbooms on too. Great job Tony

Thanks Chris.

Each bit added means even more caution when handling the growing structure.

Is there such a thing as 'Build Anxiety'? 😁

On 06/01/2022 at 20:47, Navy Bird said:

You got that right. Neither looking at the heavens or at your Sea Vixen(s).    

I'll take a shot of her in the moonlight when finished Bill, just for you.

On 06/01/2022 at 23:04, hendie said:

Marvelous work Tony. Everything looks like it just belongs...

Thanks Alan; except the outer wings, as you're about to see....

On 07/01/2022 at 10:39, keefr22 said:

Last night's waxing crescent did look particularly splendid for some reason - maybe because we had a clear moonlit sky for what seemed to have been the first time this century....!!

Pity the poor Venusians having only one word for sky: 'hotcloud'...

21 hours ago, giemme said:

I couldn't agree more! They look stunning in place!

As long as I can safely keep them in there Giorgio!

10 hours ago, k5054nz said:

Those engines...WOW!!!

Ta Zac.

I constantly find myself thinking similar things about the engines on fellow members builds - especially when hand-built by wizards like Pheonix over here:

This prolonged Vixonian era continues to throw up surprises - an especially nasty one being a dual-axis distortion at the tips of both of the outer wing segments which only became apparent once the printing supports had been stripped away:

You can clearly see a droop along the main span along with a similar twist to the chord line. With the combination of thin cross sections in places and awkward (from a printing perspective) compound shapes that make up this aircraft, I've come to expect occasional problems of this nature. You saw previously the issues with the join between front and rear sections of the fuselage due to selective contraction during curing, and on the booms the very rear of the fins at the top had a slight distortion that needed a bath in hot water and press back into alignment with a ruler to solve. Simple problems to solve with standard modelling skills and not dissimilar to those you occasionally find in injection kits. In this case I'm pretty sure that the orientation of the wing (with the largest surface at about 30° to the build plate to try and minimize striation) was the culprit - too large a surface area moving up and down in the resin each time created enough pressure to significantly distort the wing shape.

 

One of the significant things that designing and printing this particular aircraft has given me though is a slowly developing 'feel' for the complex relationships that exist between shape, size, thickness, support structure and print orientation in relation to the pressures experienced by parts rising and falling in the liquid medium. Sometimes  - as in this instance - there simply is no perfect solution to balancing all these factors for a particular part which embodies a range of varying shapes at different angles to each other in space - you simply have to go for what instinct tells you is going to minimize the amount of post-processing required. I'm starting to channel G. Cooper's excellent Farnborough and the Fleet Air Arm here so time to shut up....

 

Because these wing tips are distorted in two intersecting axes, a brief experiment with hot water and parallel pliers was enough to show me that the parts are too far gone to salvage without introducing a hefty amount of file and filler. Such brute force rectification would simply be a resigned fatalism to poor results on my part and as such unacceptable.

 

Much more important though is that fact that there's no way I'd include a part with such prominent issues in a kit to others. Steps Have To Be Taken.

 

Not quite back to the drawing board but back to the Prep. space in Lychee:

This time around as you can see I've returned to a simple vertical orientation in order to minimize the horizontal cross-section of the part moving up and down in the resin. Why hadn't I done this in the first place? Well in fact my first test print of this part was produced using a similar orientation, but due the the shallow tapering angle of the wing chord it tends to render the layer levels visible in the form of fine striations. This time around I'll have to deal with this outcome as the lesser of two evils. I usually print such large shallow tapering sections on the original Mars printer anyway as I find that the combination of screen type and judicious use of over-exposure on layer print times can actually produce a more pleasingly smooth surface appearance than the same shape done on the Mars 2.

 

Let's see how it does this time around.

 

Cold day so had to warm the gear on the stove before starting

That job went on a little while back; the printer reckons about 6.5 hours to complete so hopefully by this evening..

 

In and around such vicissitudes I've largely finished with tidying up the central fuselage area.

Trailing edges of the wings between boom and fuselage had their curves repaired where I'd knocked bits out of them over time:

Hint to anyone else doing such tasks: protect such thin edges with something like metal foil whilst you're working on a build. Don't be like me! 🤦‍♂️

 

Seams between exhaust fairing and engine bays likewise smoothed out underneath:

 - and overhead:

Some remaining patches of LAG overspray to clean off around the wheel wells and edges of the engine bays before masking off the interior paintwork inside such places.

 

Sorry it's not more exciting but hopefully this will lead to a better result in the end.

 

Felicitations.

Tony

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Pete in Lincs]

3 hours ago, TheBaron said:

 utterly warped by an unfortunate combination of chronic diction and ancient sound system that transforms his voice into the mesmerizingly horrific Sardaukar chant

Any relation to Father Jack ?  Perhaps Mrs B's car needed a different type of service? Or maybe just the last rites.

3 hours ago, TheBaron said:

The spice bags must flow...

Is that the ladies who come door to door selling pepper? Too cold for lucky heather to grow then?

I won't ask how you happened to get a Portuguese bakery over there. Sounds good though.

Half the Atlantic flying in droplet formation... I like that

 

Shame about the wings. I think I understood your explanation. The new orientation looks good, and I wish you luck in the next print.

Oh, those close up pictures, filth!

[Anthony in NZ]

Another great update Tony!!

 

Lets hope the next wing print works out ok, I am sure it will. Love that belly shot, you really have captured the shapes very well.

 

Cheers Anthony (happy the angry mob has left, thanks)

[perdu]

I love these almost magical updates Tony.

 

Now trying to understand whether you are advocating using an old fashioned 3D printer or not?

 

Re-tracing my steps I see you have a good reason for that.

 

Top man.

 

[hendie]

fwiw, I found that when and how you cure can also have an impact.

Previously I had been leaving things for a day or so before I cured them. On the Scout rotor blades I found that they had already started to warp by that time. 

After that I cured them about half an hour after the wash - using the lightsaber you recommended.  I noticed the parts warping as I lightsabered them, but by careful maneuvering/timing of the lightsaber I found I could to a large degree, control that warp.

The part will warp towards the Saber so when I saw that start to happen, I just reversed the part and started curing the opposite surface until it was flat again.

Maybe worth an experiment?

 

 

[David H]

Speaking as a paint schemes guy, half of me wants to see this painted and finished, while the other half of me is just amazed by the beauty of the intricate details with no paint on them.

[Spookytooth]

Wow, mega catch up Tony, I have been off line for a month with a dead computer and now playing the proverbial catch up on the builds I was following.

 

Those engines look so sweet sir.

 

Stay safe.

 

Simon.

[TheBaron]

Tuesday.

Just been out admiring the sunglow on the clouds:

Llive somewhere long enough and you can tell the month by where the sun sits on the horizon...

 

On 09/01/2022 at 16:14, Pete in Lincs said:

Any relation to Father Jack ?  Perhaps Mrs B's car needed a different type of service? Or maybe just the last rites.

😁

That would be an ecumechanical matter!

On 09/01/2022 at 16:14, Pete in Lincs said:

won't ask how you happened to get a Portuguese bakery over there. Sounds good though.

I'm pretty sure I remember reading somewhere Pete - it might have been Jared Diamond's Buns, Germs and Steel - that homo sapiens ceased their northward migration from Africa upon reaching the territory of modern-day Portugal and developing the technology of Pastéis de nata.

 

Outcasts from various tribes were banished to the cold North, where they lived a bestial existence feeding upon moss and Mr. Kipling products.

On 09/01/2022 at 16:14, Pete in Lincs said:

Oh, those close up pictures, filth!

I know my audience....

On 09/01/2022 at 18:14, Anthony in NZ said:

Lets hope the next wing print works out ok, I am sure it will. Love that belly shot, you really have captured the shapes very well.

Thanks Anthony.

Things went surprisingly well this time around and I'm pleased withe the results. (see below)

On 09/01/2022 at 20:19, perdu said:

I love these almost magical updates Tony.

 

Now trying to understand whether you are advocating using an old fashioned 3D printer or not?

 

Re-tracing my steps I see you have a good reason for that.

Thanks Bill: it does indeed sounds contradictory but there really is a material difference in the quality produced on long tapering parts like a wing camber.

 

In time this shouldn't be a factor when resolutions get much higher but for now - as with any technique - I'm still coming to appreciate the limitations that distinguish one tool from another here.

 

Now if only brass-capable laser cutters can get affordable enough to be able to avoid photoetching....

 

On 09/01/2022 at 20:39, hendie said:

fwiw, I found that when and how you cure can also have an impact.

Agree entirely Alan.

 

In fact it was sometime back on this thread when we were having a similar discussion that I significantly altered the way I use the Mercury curing station to take into account exactly these factors. When I first got the station I made the mistake of following what many people tell you to do on Y-tube which is to set an overall time and let it rip. As the station allows you to cure in 30 second intervals I'd early on stopped setting a total, instead doing 30 seconds at a time, then placing the part in the opposite orientation on the turntable for a further 30 seconds, and so on - the number of changes of position depending largely on the shape and thickness of the part.

 

For very thin parts like the rudders I'll actually stop the cure after about 10 seconds and rotate the part at shorter intervals -  as you talk about with your rotor blades. You know yourself that after while you get enough experience to make an educated guess about the overall curing time for a particular size and shape of part.

 

I'm pretty confident in this instance though that the culprit was print orientation due to the fact that in neither my original vertical test print or in the latest one did I end up with such a deviated wingtip as the penultimate one, despite curing times remaining consistent. I also added a larger number of drainage holes this time around just in case the speed of resin draining from the interior was an issue - whether that helps I've no idea...

 

Oh the fun figuring all this stuff out on the job eh?!

On 10/01/2022 at 17:14, David H said:

Speaking as a paint schemes guy, half of me wants to see this painted and finished, while the other half of me is just amazed by the beauty of the intricate details with no paint on them.

It's funny you saying that David  - there are times I get incredibly nervous about painting, thinking that I'm going to ruin the thing... 😄

21 hours ago, Spookytooth said:

Wow, mega catch up Tony, I have been off line for a month with a dead computer and now playing the proverbial catch up on the builds I was following.

Glad to have you back online Simon - hope the new machine is working out ok for you?

 

 

Progress report then.

 

Sunday's new and improved wing print went off without a hitch:

As well as the vertical orientation I'd added a robust layer of buttresses to either side for stability, as well as a thicker population of mini supports along the leading edge to maintain a consistent line all the way along.

 

For people not familiar with the kind of cleanup on prints of this nature, this is what such a part looks like in the initial stage with the supports snipped off:

Along with the drainage holes needing filling, these things can look pretty brutal in their raw state, however the cleanup is time-consuming rather than complicated as that forest of support stumps disappears rapidly with a small file.

 

You can faintly make out the striations on the wing surface above that I'd referred to as an issue previously when printing a tapering camber like this in the vertical orientation. It takes an extreme lighting angle for them to really pop out but such 'ripples' at their deepest are only about 0.1mm at most and easily planed smooth.

On a large curving and flat areas like a wing I find the most effective tools are craft blades like these:

Being more rigid than scalpel blades, these are highly effective when held at an angle to the surface and planed across said striations - about 10 mins on each wing is enough to return you to smoothness.

Once sanded and polished you're good to go.

 

Most importantly though this time around - the wing is straight (and retains the correct dihedral on the underside)!

Test fit of the control surfaces:

With the  slightly Gothic shape of those ailerons I like the way they look when deflected:

Only thing is though, for a static aircraft on the ground for engine maintenance, would these ailerons ever be in such a deflected posture or would the controls be locked flush with the wing? Any advice on the matter greatly appreciated!

 

In terms of cleanup along the face of the wing rib you can se the work in progress here removing the mini supports necessary on hinges and recesses:

Despite being a fiddly location, these too cleaned up nicely:

Looking at those recesses reminds me I have to print up replacement hinges for the ones I broke off of the inner wing folding mechanism. I need to replace the FEP on the Mars 2 as my initial print of these replacements on Sunday stuck to the film. My fault for letting it get so dirty before deciding it needed replacing.

 

Soon my pretties you shall be together...

In terms of securing these two major parts at the wingfold, I'm not going to be relying upon the main hinges as being resin and small they simply won't be strong enough to support the upper wing in place on their own. My plan is to use brass (for strength) in two places: the obvious one being the jury strut providing a load bearing support toward the back of the wing, the other being the cable tray at the front holding the wings firmly in place at the correct angle. You can see above the vacant slots for this tray top and bottom of the wingfold, just forward of the front-most hinges. Julien has a nice shot of said tray here in the forum walkaround.

 

Lastly the inboard main gear doors have been permanently added now:

A final flourish with the file on the wells in a couple of places was all that was needed, and that's them done now:

A quick look in the parts box revealed that apart from the 150 gall. tanks, I've run out of Vixen bits needing prepping!

Canopy!

Bloody hell, how could I have forgotten that?

More importantly, where the hell did I put all the vacforms from a few months back...

I'll ask Mrs. B - she always finds things.

 

Thanks for looking in and hope all of you are having good weeks so far.

Take care until next time.

Tony

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Anthony in NZ]

Thanks for the update Tony

 

Those wingfolds look magical mate!  Sorry I cant help on the ailerons, but it kinda makes sense.  Is'nt the Sea Fury like that?  Anyhoo....I am so addicted to this build.

 

Oh well back to my wheel wells on my Phantom.  Thanks for the inspiration!

[Spookytooth]

24 minutes ago, TheBaron said:

Glad to have you back online Simon - hope the new machine is working out ok for you?

Cheers Tony, so far so good with this computer. Just the fine tuning of her.

 

I agree about the wing fixings, better made from brass for strength.

 

Stay safe.

 

Simon.

[Pete in Lincs]

28 minutes ago, TheBaron said:

ecumechanical matter!

Bless this Citroen and may it sail through the MOT.

'where they lived a bestial existence feeding upon moss and Mr. Kipling products'. It must have been Hell.

'I know my audience.'.. That you do, Sir. And we appreciate that.

 

Ailerons. Now, these would be powered flying controls. Hydraulics donchaknow. Designed to self centre unless an input is made via the stick.

Plus it's part of the Pilots job to 'tidy up' the Airframe by centering everything (flaps up etc) & in this case, folding the wings, before shutting down.

In addition, on a lot of Aircraft a mechanical lock would be fitted to stop the wind making things flap around. 

On powered controls there would be a hydraulic lock (pressure) to keep things in place. But the pressure can bleed off due to system leakage.

Leading to droop. (ahem) Hunter Airbrakes for instance. Though the Vixen had three hyd systems so it should be as per regs.

 

Oh, congrats on the lovely new wings, BTW

[Learstang]

Brilliant work as always, Tony! Speaking of Gothic, that wing does look positively Gothic straight out of the printer with all the flying buttresses!

 

Regards,

 

Jason