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Sea Vixen FAW.1x2


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A small baggie of indeterminate silvery powder arrived on my doorstep on Monday from an address, 'west of the Meridian'.

 

 

I had not realised it was so far west, brilliant service from the fellows.

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As with many of you, it's still too hot to consider the application of paint here today, but research has been continuing in the colour department in anticipation of cooler days beginning next week.

I also noticed something odd about XJ481 earlier - more on that in a bit; messages first:

On 20/07/2021 at 14:35, giemme said:

Impressive pic that last one, Tony

It's a place up near the border called Lough Oughter Giorgio, a landscape that flooded to form lakes after the glaciers retreated:

https://goo.gl/maps/sXCBwWWQAorm9KY57

It's a region of Ireland I've come to really appreciate over time as that drumlin landscape has such seemingly intimate views of land and sky when traveling through it.

On 20/07/2021 at 19:17, Pete in Lincs said:

No names, no pack drill. This is a family site!

Manson or Munster though Pete? :hmmm:

On 21/07/2021 at 08:39, perdu said:

A small baggie of indeterminate silvery powder arrived on my doorstep on Monday from an address, 'west of the Meridian'.

For one brief surreal moment I thought you'd been buying glitter Bill and that we were going to get the forum's first ever Disco Sikorsky! 😁

Hope the stuff works out for you ok. :thumbsup2:

On 21/07/2021 at 14:54, CedB said:

Are there no limits to the man's skills?

I'm pathetic at small talk Ced and can't fold clothes to save my life, to name just a few existential deficits.... 😅

On 21/07/2021 at 20:54, bigbadbadge said:

Cockpit glazing is going to be amazing inside and out great job fella, 

I've a lot to live up to Chris after seeing your current painting output - truly inspirational. :thumbsup2:

 

The heat hasn't bothered me that much as once I'd started reading up on colour research I ended up as usual going down all sorts of interesting rabbit holes, starting from some of the knowledgeable individuals on here that in turn branch you out in all sorts of directions like heraldic tinctures (not a million miles away from aircraft markings if you think about it...), along with fruitless attempts to purchase a 1964 edition of 'BS 381C: Colours for specific purposes'. (Anyone know of a reasonably priced copy please, let me know as the publishers BSI have withdrawn it from sale).

 

Aside from the B/W trials scheme of 481, these are the additional colours I've worked out that I need to mix up from Tamiya acrylics:

51331255530_fd31caa292_b.jpg

The lower photos are references specific to wingfold and undercarriage colours for the XN708 build that will display these areas -  James rather helpfully published his observations on wingfold colours back here on the thread in September, so there are a range of hues that  can be thought about. Although the red (I think you mentioned it might be PX-7 lubricant Pete) is quite striking and the greeny-gold is rich but subdued, I kind of like the halfway house in the lower right photo where on the full size version of the photograph you can see a  red tinge along the outer wingfold but fading into green-gold on the lower - at 1/72 I think that this subtler mix of hues will add visual interest without appearing to dominate the overall colour scheme.

 

I've also seen zinc chromate mentioned as a candidate colour on early Vixen as well - indeed I've a photo clearly showing just that colouration on both a FAW.1 wingfold and undercarriage. It would clash 'orribly with the living room curtains though so soundly rejected....

 

Also visible in the top left above is a quick transposition of roundel to danger triangle red (apologies for taking liberties with your imagery James but as both markings are identically lit it in the same photograph it shows up the different hues concerned very well) - I'm assuming the panel markings around the engine bay panels on the upperworks are also the latter colour. Masking those off shouldn't be a piece of cake.... 😓

 

As both XJ481 and XN708 have/had the earlier variant pilot's canopy type fitted (i.e a divider along the roof and a vertical one midway along the side), this colour scheme will be applied to the canopy of both aircraft (shown here for '481, hence the black windshield framing):

51329193012_f8d31c712c_c.jpg

Ah yes, the anomaly regarding '481 I mentioned earlier.

Is it just me or is she flying without a starboard outer undercarriage door fitted in both these photos?

51330714285_422116cf0a_k.jpg

Another oddity is Alleycat paint instructions stating that Martels were only ever carried on the port outer pylon - maybe this was true for trials of the radar version but clearly not the case with the TV version shown here on the right, especially as the data relay linking the Martel to the chase Vixen runs from that port inner pylon back along the boom to the transceiver on the tail unit.

 

Right. I'm off to rummage through the paint stand to see what I've forgotten I had...

 

:bye:

Tony

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, TheBaron said:

Manson or Munster though Pete?

The jury is out on that, but the Judge is named Adams! Yep, it was PX-7.

And yes, the RH (It would have been Starboard back then) door is missing from those pictures. Well spotted.

It may have been damaged and they needed to fly while it was being repaired or they were awaiting a replacement.

There would have been a speed restriction and possibly a do not retract instruction without the door though.

The only other thing I can think of is they were flying at max weight load and used high speed cameras to check U/C leg compression on landing.

 

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I don't suppose the retailer from whom this latest can of worms was obtained can be named here in a family show Tony, but if you can let me have the address off screen I would be in line to get a couple of cans in for my own nefariousnesses.

 

The PX-7 might be readily found by spraying Tamiya Clear Red and Clear Orange over the metallic structure rather than just offering a straight body colour, it is after all a cludgy oversplash anyway.

 

(If I hadn't recently discovered the clear Tamiya hues I would have been tempted to apply red felt tip pen ink over the actual model parts to get close to it. It is what I used for a similar substance on my Jaguar models a while back.)

 

I wonder whether Ejection Seat triangles and other various service stencils were not actually transfers rather than painted on in BS-381C colours anyway, a perfect excuse to print your own as required.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, perdu said:

I wonder whether Ejection Seat triangles and other various service stencils were not actually transfers

I have one such, meant for a Hunter. Still in it's original packaging.

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4 hours ago, keefr22 said:

 

Send in the rescue goat...

After it's been fed on Martian's curry and cc's beer! He won't stay hiding in there for long!

 

Ian

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Cooler here today which, permitting as it did a few more neurons to start firing, I spent the latter part of the afternoon at the bench fitting and fettling the nose section to the fuselage of 481- aided by the urban cool of this gentleman playing away on the 2nd monitor in the background.

51337741914_e61d6615cb_m.jpg

 

Let's see what Mrs Hudson brought in on the tray to begin with then:

On 23/07/2021 at 19:54, Pete in Lincs said:

Yep, it was PX-7.

Cheers for the confirmation Pete - is it true it was raspberry flavoured?

On 23/07/2021 at 19:54, Pete in Lincs said:

There would have been a speed restriction and possibly a do not retract instruction without the door though.

Interesting. :thumbsup2:

I had a car like that once as well.

On 23/07/2021 at 19:56, perdu said:

The PX-7 might be readily found by spraying Tamiya Clear Red and Clear Orange

Thanks Bill: I've a mule set up to test a number of options, including these; rather weirdly I have those two X's in the paint box but no recollection of ever buying them. Paint's like that ain't it? Only a small number of pots I can actually remember deliberately buying for a specific task, the rest  sort of absent-mindedly acquired under the 'I might need that one day' rubric...

On 23/07/2021 at 20:03, Pete in Lincs said:

have one such, meant for a Hunter. Still in it's original packaging.

 

On 23/07/2021 at 19:56, perdu said:

a perfect excuse to print your own as required.

Decal paper duly ordered.

On 23/07/2021 at 21:35, bigbadbadge said:

As usual I am lacking in the knowledge department for this and feeling out of my depth, but great spot and research fella.   

Thanks for your kind comments for my builds.

Mutual appreciation is a wonderful thing Chris! 😁

On 24/07/2021 at 10:00, Brandy said:

Happy rummaging Tony! Hopefully you don't get lost in there.

Look what I found at the back of the paint box Ian!

51337798684_54ab912aa3_z.jpg

Knocked up who knows how many years ago for the Sea Venom build and remarkably seems in good condition still (once I'd manged to persuade the lid to leave the encrusted pot). I must look back at that thread to see if I ever wrote down what I mixed it from.... 🤦‍♂️

On 24/07/2021 at 10:00, Brandy said:

If we don't hear from you within a couple of days we'll send a search party. 

 

On 24/07/2021 at 12:45, keefr22 said:

Send in the rescue goat...

I'm absolutely fine. Nothing to see here....

 

So anyhoo. Absolute scenes yesterday when I err...

...stuck two pieces of the aircraft together:

51337214333_42b1cbc35b_b.jpg

I've bored you senseless before about how much I like using the same material that the aircraft is made from as an adhesive-slash-filler as well. Some light carving back afterward with the scalpel/no.11 blade combination, followed by 600/1200/2400 W&D + water, and the join lines merge into the surrounding bodywork most satisfactorily:

51338001470_beae702f07_b.jpg

Same story for the pelvic region:

51337729274_1643480c3b_b.jpg

becomes:

51338001440_d66709e7de_b.jpg

I've still some smoothing work to do on the wings roots and rear fuselage as you can see but am happy with how the nose/fuselage interface has come together.

 

You'd expect some warping to happen over time with the thinness of some of the resin parts at this scale and sure enough I noticed the tailplane the other day had a twist in two dimensions:

51337214373_4287647132_b.jpg

Into hot water with it and clamped in a bench vice bought it back to the required rectilinear rectitude:

51337214388_9b98dc6e61_c.jpg

I was able to check the other prints that I have of this part to see if this was a wider issue. The others were done several months ago now and are still mounted to their printing support structures; they remain nicely squared up still so this only appears to be an issue if like me you've taken a part off the supports straight away before it's had a chance to fully cure over time and left it laying around. I feel daft analogies with making cheese or wine coming on.... 😆

 

Also knocking around in the spare prints box was the initial mockup that I'd done for the wingfold of '708 about this time last year. The print is quite rough ( I was still learning lots then about printing tolerances) but I'd kept it knocking about the bench thinking it might be useful at some point as a test piece, so had shot some Vallejo Aluminium onto it previously with the intention of using it as a test mule for experimenting with the various lubricant hues that you can see in reference imagery of the period:

51338001400_c83c9ea46d_b.jpg

I think oil washes over metallics might give some interesting material effects in response to light, perhaps with a little linseed oil added in for 'greasiness'. We'll see.

 

Been growing sunflowers this year for the first time in ages - these guys are at about 11ft high and climbing:

51336995511_5b51e8e275_b.jpg

Against the dusk their silhouettes look like a Wayang performance is in progress, but I'm still trying vainly to work out the story...

51338001490_936928211f_b.jpg

Good evening to you all as always.

:bye:

Tony

 

 

 

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At least now we know why you are eager to find the "recipe" for your EDSG! I hope that colour suits your handsome good looks, I'd hate to think you have to repaint 'cos the Baroness doesn't like it! (and make sure it's dry before kissing her goodnight!).

As for the Wayang, at least the guy at top centre seems happy with the proceedings!

 

Oh yes, the model - I certainly think you've hit on the perfect "glue" for it, the joins look excellent.

 

Ian

 

 

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22 hours ago, TheBaron said:

is it true it was raspberry flavoured?

Sadly, we never found a willing volunteer. 

 

51338001440_d66709e7de_b.jpg

Haven't I seen this before in one of those undersea documentaries?

It would make a great spaceship though! :poke:

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The Case of the Solitary Cyclist was this afternoon's accompaniament:

51341130228_61ce6232f2_z.jpg

The episode that contains that splendid bout of public bar fisticuffs between S.H. and a frightful blackguard.

 

Rewind first to last night and time was spent with the Naval Treaty episode, giving the newly-wed nose and fuselage a final polish in strongly oblique light in order to show any remaining flaws. 

Upper:

51341640394_acd538db5f_b.jpg

and lower Vixen:

51341640384_7825cbd77b_b.jpg

I've previously discussed the surface qualities that  I'm going for here - smooth, but not uniformly so, in order to mimic the (very) slight irregularities revealed on the actual aircraft by the way light falls across the curvatures when viewed from such angles. Just before hitting the scratcher last evening I also put a waft of primer along the seam where the two sections were glued together, just to be sure three were no blemishes.

Job done I think:

51340177922_2bb973e4f4_b.jpg

I nearly set about fixing the wings on earlier this afternoon  but thankfully recollected in time that some metal treatment was needed to each end of the engines and their associated intake tunnels prior to doing this, as I wouldn't have sufficient access for painting once these parts were fitted together. A qucik scan of the maintenance manual I have for the Avons revealed that it gives little away in terms of the metals from which the various parts of the engines are built, save to mention that the turbine blades are manufactured from 'Nimonic' alloy. Not having any nickel/chrome paint mixtures to hand, for '481 all I rally need is something bright and shiny peeking out from the tunnels, so I resorted to a snort of Vallejo aluminium in order to give the required gleam:

51340177942_31ea0e7e4a_b.jpg

As to the tunnels themselves,  to mimic the kind of dull metaI seen in images like this Vallejo steel was used to give a kind of irregular patterning:

51340899516_94098d707f_b.jpg

That'll all be mostly in shade and invisible later but you have to make the effort....

Same drill for the rear turbine blades and exhaust tunnels:

51341911045_6b67096755_b.jpg

That should be fine for the concealed appearance of engine details visible on this particular aircraft but for '708, where the exposed Avons will be a significant aspect of the build, I see Vallejo do some nice looking chrome as well as one or two other bling pigments that I'll add to the inventory  for that job later on. Whilst I had paint in the airbrush however, I couldn't resist a little bit of indulgence on an old Avon test print 'just to see' how the Vallejo stuff performs:

51341640454_2bebb7e97f_b.jpg

Oooh! Think it's going to be great fun playing around with painting those when the time comes. Sprayed here at about 15psi (same as for the primer,  Aluminium with a misting of steel around the exhaust.. These Vallejo water-based metallics have really been quite a revelation for me; that said though, you'll still have to prise Alclad's black primer/microfiller from my cold dead hand...

 

Producing adequate colour references for both the Avons and their associated engine bays has meant spending a bit of time recently making some educated guesses using colour balancing procedures in Photoshop. The problem in terms of colour images is this - with no period colour photography showing such features of operational (i.e. maintained/serviced) aircraft to speak of, it would be easy to be misled into producing overly weathered and dirty looking representations based on how unmaintained static display aircraft look today. To this end therefore I've been collecting a range of imagery put out there by the ever-excellent Navy Wings guys when servicing their SV, in order to get a feel for an aircraft being maintained for flight (as was... :sad:) in terms of how her engines and bays should roughly look.

 

The problem with this is that although they are excellent in getting a feel for how a well-looked after should look in terms of cleanliness, the bulk of images available from this source are either shot in mixed colour temperature environments (ie. hangar lighting with daylight bleeding in) or with smartphones that are not colour balanced with sufficient accuracy. Here's a selction of images from the mood board where I've removed as much colour pollution as I could.

51341121293_729f12abd2_b.jpg

Notice how much cleaner the Avons look than many of those you see floating about the web taken of static aircraft. You can see from the skin tones of the chap in the middle photograph that with multiple colour temerpatures in a shot you're never going to get a totally accurate balance. As far as I can make out, there's a mixture of bare metal and what looks like zinc chromate around areas Foxy Lady's bays, but I can also see what appears to be Lt. Admiralty Grey in some other shots of her. Unless anyone has compelling evidence to the contrary, I think for my FAW.1s here  I'm going to use LAG overall and bare metal for specific details on the engine  bay areas.

 

Either way, there's enough visible here to help with getting the actual visible condition of a flying aircraft to look reasonably accurate.

 

Thanks for looking in as always, I hope to have wings on '481 next time you see her.

:bye:

Tony

 

 

 

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That 'Raspberry Jam' preservative looked and felt exactly like that, for the longish term preservative for primarily unpainted surfaces. It dries waxy. Remember that Merlin Halifax fished out of a fjord and on display at Hendon? Same stuff. 

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1 hour ago, TheBaron said:

smooth, but not uniformly so,

It's often been said about me. Nice of you to notice, old chap.

Engines come in many colours and myriad shades. I think as long as they're metallic looking where they should be, they'll be good.

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PX-7? If that's the stuff I'm thinking of, the only time I ever saw it raspberry colored was when it was in the tin. By the time you painted it on, then went back with a double coat to make sure you got everything, the color deepened with every brush stroke. If you were painting it on some hydraulics that were already coated it ended up a deep blood red color.

As to the raspberry flavor, that was PRC.  No, wait... That was :poop:flavored.

As Pete rightly stated, the engines were all shades and colors in service. Even when they came back from the engine bay after a refurb they were still a hodge podge of various shades of aluminum, steel, and titanium, with the occasional painted bit here and there.  Firewalls were always fun - No amount of cleaning or scrubbing ever brought them back to looking anything other than something you'd find in a junkyard.

 

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We're on  the threshold of a, well not a dream but definitely another step forward in scale modelling here.

 

And we get a couple of exponents of experimental wizardry talking  about gummy preservatives on exposed metals, marvellous.

 

As ye know I cant keep my gob shut sometimes (oft-times detrimentally too, 'tis true) so I would like to pop in an observation about the Vallejo metallics.

 

Your engine looks as if it is metal painted not made of metal, I think because the brilliant colours of the Vallejo paint show grains.

 

I know some have lost faith in Alclad metallic paints but honestly think we are looking for 'made not painted' and Alclad is still supreme for that look.

 

(And yes I hate using it but to me there isn't an alternative, everything else goes down with visible grain, although I have flatted back Vallejo metallic with matt varnish to make its surface more? Homogenous?)

 

But please maestros, continue.

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That forward fuselage looks superb Tony. Wait, what am I saying ............. that is the whole fuselage innit!

 

6 minutes ago, perdu said:

I know some have lost faith in Alclad metallic paints but honestly think we are looking for 'made not painted' and Alclad is still supreme for that look.

 

Totally agree Bill. Challenging to use, but once mastered supreme. Can't wait to master it!

 

I'm currently finalising the paint/wear on two 1/48 Derwents which will live inside the open bays of a Meteor F8 build for a friend. I'm finding many different greys, metallics and other shades of other colours here and there, seem to be doing the trick, in order to give an over greyish well used metallic "lump", and agree with @Pete in Lincs and @hendie re the in service look.

 

These Vixens are going to be the biz I reckon.

 

Terry

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20 hours ago, Ossington said:

That 'Raspberry Jam' preservative looked and felt exactly like that,

:laugh: But did it or the cream go on the scone first?

20 hours ago, Pete in Lincs said:

Engines come in many colours and myriad shades. I think as long as they're metallic looking where they should be, they'll be good.

Myriad  we can do Pete. 😁

(it's uniformity that gives me the real problem...)

15 hours ago, Andwil said:

That lower Vixen shot is almost quite rude.

Expect nothing else on my threads AW. I know this audience.😉

14 hours ago, hendie said:

By the time you painted it on, then went back with a double coat to make sure you got everything, the color deepened with every brush stroke. If you were painting it on some hydraulics that were already coated it ended up a deep blood red color.

Sounds delightfully Goth, or at least a bit Souixsie tbh... 😄

14 hours ago, hendie said:

As Pete rightly stated, the engines were all shades and colors in service. Even when they came back from the engine bay after a refurb they were still a hodge podge of various shades of aluminum, steel, and titanium, with the occasional painted bit here and there.  Firewalls were always fun - No amount of cleaning or scrubbing ever brought them back to looking anything other than something you'd find in a junkyard.

I'm anticipating a lot of fun pretending that lucky accidents were the product of thoughtful deliberation!

5 hours ago, perdu said:

Your engine looks as if it is metal painted not made of metal,

 

5 hours ago, Terry1954 said:

Totally agree Bill. Challenging to use, but once mastered supreme.

 

Bit premature chaps; I'd ask you to wait until seeing an actual completed engine rather than a quick test snort on unprepped materials a la:

 

22 hours ago, TheBaron said:

an old Avon test print 'just to see'

 

No Sherlock or update today - have to drive youngest youngest to a job interview at short notice.

 

Wings have moved closer together on the bench in a coquettish manner...

 

:bye:

Tony

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Good luck to youngest youngest today.

I quite agree that I knew it was a test test but was hopefully passing a useful observation.

 

More to come later of course, looking forwards to it, expectantly.

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I had a long overdue catchup with your build at last, Tony - and what a catchup!  The fuselage join is impressive, and the engine job looks very promising ! :clap::worthy:

 

Ciao 

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