Sea Vixen FAW.1x2

[TheBaron]

On 29/10/2020 at 12:42, hendie said:

I'd be tempted but the postage would kill me

I'd be tempted but the wife would kill me...

'Darling! The new conversation piece I ordered has arrived!'

On 29/10/2020 at 12:42, hendie said:

Ah, the old "spend inordinate amounts of time working diligently on the wrong model" trick eh?  You just earned your second level CAD Monkey badge Tony

On 29/10/2020 at 12:54, keefr22 said:

might be good future proofing for when you come to print your 1:1 working model

That's quite enough from you young Keith.

On 29/10/2020 at 14:17, CedB said:

Just need to stop desiring the Elegoo printer and washing machine

Followed two weeks later by:

On 29/10/2020 at 14:17, CedB said:

I've got one ✓

😁

On 29/10/2020 at 15:14, perdu said:

does it have an indexing table?

Bill: is that a yoke for rotating the part through a given angle to drill/machine? (Excuse my customary philistinism about engineering basics.)

On the Dremel stand itself you only get vertical markings for drilling depth like so:

 - though the actual base plate has diagonal sots set @ 90 degrees to each other that various jigs could be bolted into I guess. In terms of working with brass I've found this a reliable platform for drilling accurately with bits as small  as 0.3mm using a sturdy vice to hold parts at the required angles. If you don't fancy paying full price and are prepared to lurk, then these seem to pop up occasionally on the River Retailer's site a lot cheaper under the 'returns' section where folk have returned them and the contents are fine. That was how I got mine.

On 29/10/2020 at 15:42, giemme said:

Why?

 

 

 

That's grandfathers for you Giorgio.

Pretending to be all cautions when in fact they're as impulsive as ever....

On 29/10/2020 at 17:23, 71chally said:

I'm just wondering in what order we will see the Stranraer build?!

Possibly never James as I'm sorry to say that my enthusiasm for that one evaporated some time back. The Valom Walrus I bought off a member a couple of years back though retains its appeal to be built on a catapult. The sea-light and drama in this photograph by Lt. Coote of a training launch from Pegasus (née Ark Royal) makes my heart soar with enthusiasm for the subject every time:

That shot is just so sublimely judged, composed and exposed.

On 29/10/2020 at 17:32, Brandy said:

Although I have to admit I do miss rain

Happy to bottle some and send it over Ian. No shortage at present.... 🌧️🌧️🌧️🌧️🌧️🌧️🌧️

Swap you for some sunlight?

23 hours ago, bbudde said:

Indeed.

😁

19 hours ago, Navy Bird said:

Hmm...maybe the ducting looks more like the sea monster.   

My point exactly Bill. 😁 Even with the benefit of CAD tools, getting that duct-work to bend, angle and flare in multiple dimensions over its length from rear to front involved such exertions that I can't help thinking any classically-minded designers in the de Havilland office tasked with physically building and installing this feature on the aircraft must have felt a deep sympathy with the priest's contortions in the sculpture. Thankfully, here in Ireland St. Patrick drove out all the ducts way back.

19 hours ago, Navy Bird said:

PS. That canopy rocks, mate.

Let me know if you want yours open or closed!

 

Banging this out quickly tonight as we're under an Orange storm warning in this neck of the woods for tonight and tomorrow so likely to lose power and connectivity if it's as rough as forecast. This is the storm front brewing over the Atlantic about half an hour ago:

Some incredible filigree going on in the details:

 

Tony

 

[bbudde]

26 minutes ago, TheBaron said:

This is the storm front brewing over the Atlantic about half an hour ago:

Hello Tony I guess this will bring us about 20°C on Monday here. Not quite sure, if it's good, bad or normal in November here.

Cheers

[Spookytooth]

I have got to say that the work bench area is so welcoming.

 

Storm watch you said.

 

 

Simon.

 

Stay safe mate.

[71chally]

59 minutes ago, TheBaron said:

That shot is just so sublimely judged, composed and exposed.

Tony

...let me retort with a profundity of grandiose proportions - yeah dat!

 

I'm fascinated by what photographers caught years ago, working with limited amounts of film stock, and unwieldy equipment that had to be set up just so in normal conditions, let alone anything like that with a moving object heading into sunlight, and making it look like art.

 

I take it the Gannet AEW will be well down the list!

 

 

Cracking cloudscapes - again!

 

 

[Pete in Lincs]

YES! Launch the Shagbat!

 

(But wait for that storm to pass)

[perdu]

Photographs like that and you waste your time modelling...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Or rather not wasting it at all, the ability to multitask places you several races ahead of mine though.

 

We mere humans bow in your presence.

[Terry1954]

As Bill suggests, those photographs of the gathering storm sky are superb Tony, both in technical and artistic quality.

 

A man of many talents it seems!

 

Terry

[keefr22]

3 hours ago, TheBaron said:

 

 

That - is fantastic!

 

K

[Navy Bird]

Me three on the imposing sky photos. Teshub be a'coming! Although he's a bit out of his territory.   

 

Cheers,

Bill

 

PS. Canopy open for me. Coal hole too.

[TheBaron]

Probably going to jinx it now but power's stayed on all day: woken by the battering of winds on the side of the house about 5.30 this morning and impossible to sleep, so self and Mrs. B ended up blearily gazing from the bedroom windows at rain driven through the trees with such violence that it was more like a smoke or mist reducing visibility down to but a few metres. Thankfully only at that peak energy for about 15 mins but a genuinely alarming phenomenon: even more thankful there's no material damage done this time.

On 30/10/2020 at 18:38, bbudde said:

Not quite sure, if it's good, bad or normal in November here.

Is it November?

What is a November?

I've quite lost the sense of months these days Benedikt between contradictory weather patterns and the normalization of lockdown...

On 30/10/2020 at 19:06, Spookytooth said:

Storm watch you said.

Hadn't heard that track Simon - thanks!

On 30/10/2020 at 19:07, 71chally said:

...let me retort with a profundity of grandiose proportions - yeah dat!

On 30/10/2020 at 19:07, 71chally said:

 

I'm fascinated by what photographers caught years ago, working with limited amounts of film stock, and unwieldy equipment that had to be set up just so in normal conditions

Same as myself James.

Aside from the sheer bulk and heft of the gear, the slow film speeds must have sorely tested the steadiness of hand in lower light conditions. There are some extraordinarily-evocative images scattered throughout the whole IWM archive  - art as well as photography/film - that never see the light of day in print publications (don't picture editors have any imagination?). I often just search the archive under oblique single words like 'flame' or 'sudden' rather than the names of things or places, finding this reveals the unusual. This flabberghasting image captioned:'The Loss of HMS GLOWWORM: A photograph taken through one of the ADMIRAL HIPPER's range-finders showing survivors clinging to the capsized hull of HMS GLOWWORM' popped out the other night under a search using the term 'range' for example  It just wipes me out to look at:

^{Image credit: IWM}

On 30/10/2020 at 19:07, 71chally said:

I take it the Gannet AEW will be well down the list!

Down, but not so far that it's disappeared over the horizon. 😁

On 30/10/2020 at 19:18, Pete in Lincs said:

YES! Launch the Shagbat!

Nancy agrees!

On 30/10/2020 at 19:49, perdu said:

We mere humans bow in your presence.

 I have been here for over 50 of your earth years and am still fascinated by your species. 👽

On 30/10/2020 at 19:58, Terry1954 said:

those photographs of the gathering storm sky are superb Tony, both in technical and artistic quality.

Just point me at some light Terry and my brain goes 'click'.... 😁

On 30/10/2020 at 21:50, keefr22 said:

That - is fantastic!

We're blessed with having such a clear view over toward the West and the Atlantic Keith, from where splendours frequently bloom at dusk. Aside from being near a school, having sight of a western horizon was one of the main factors for both myself and Cat (the missus) when buying a place to settle down. Must be something to do with Lyonesse and Avalon in the race memory... 😁

On 30/10/2020 at 22:05, Navy Bird said:

Teshub be a'coming! Although he's a bit out of his territory.

You have to love a forum where you can travel from the Graeco-Roman to the Hurrian/Hittite within the context of a discussion on Fleet Air Arm aircraft Bill.

We'd be mustard in a pub quiz  I reckon!

On 30/10/2020 at 22:05, Navy Bird said:

Canopy open for me. Coal hole too.

Developments I think you'll approve of follow....

 

Emboldened by the fact that the powerlines stayed up and hence the supply of coffee was uninterrupted, I spent the morning on the observer's side of the front section, cleaving out the hatch door and its window, firstly on XJ481:

As she's going to be posed 'en voyage'. that hatch will remain resolutely shut.

 

Similar attentions paid to the hatch on XN708:

Though as this one's in 'wanton sprawl' mode, considerably more work was needed to produce an acceptable appearance to the hatch in open pose:

I've noticed on all the reference shots I've got that this door never seems to open upcompletely vertically, so I've got it here up at about 78°, which seems to match what I see in references.

 

The real test in this was getting the inside part of it up to scratch, due not only to the complex nature of surface features, but also their varying heights and cross-sections:

The 'rib' that runs around the perimeter and the mounting for the main hinge mechanism are obviously over-scale visually due to print tolerance, but not I hope to the extent that they mar the visual 'feel' of this section. Smaller features such as the operating handle for the hatch are best left to brass tube later on;

 

The windows on both the hatch and observer's side window have been given transparent qualities here, but in actuality will be printed as solids to act as bucks for vacforming:

You can just make out that the surrounding framing of both has been offset outwards by 0.2mm to allow for the thickness of the vacforming material.

 

The hinge of that hatch is connected by a link to some framing that sits up against the roof of the coal hole, just behind the observer's seat, so I capitalized on this by designing them as a single part to fit underneath the lip of the cockpit opening on that side:

 

It's clearer to see in this image below with the opacity of the fuselage turned down so that you can see how it will lock the upright hatch into place by clipping over the rear lip of said coal hole:

A final look from above then, and one that reminds me the last tasks in this region for now are to build the rear pressure bulkhead that tilts back inside the rear of the pilot's canopy, along with the release strut and bits of (I think) LABS gear that sit up on it:

 

A less dramatic twilighht earlier, the storm burned out leaving a lacework of pale crystals:

Going to be up to my eyes the next week coming so doubt I'll be fit company in modelling society until this day week.

 

Take care until then dear hearts.

Tony

 

 

 

[bbudde]

27 minutes ago, TheBaron said:

What is a November?

Tony, as far as I remember it's the foggy, misty thinghy, which is letting your nose running snot in the first cold air of the season.  A bit difficult with the mandatory mask/Schnutenpulli this year.

Cheers

[Pete in Lincs]

Schnutenpulli.  Apparently the low German word of the year for nose and mouth protection. (It's a facemask)

 

High German speakers probably looked down their noses at it.

[Space Ranger]

5 hours ago, Pete in Lincs said:

Schnutenpulli.  Apparently the low German word of the year for nose and mouth protection. (It's a facemask)

 

High German speakers probably looked down their noses at it.

My college German professor (a native German who had been a Wehrmacht tank driver in WW II) would frequently make fun of some of the outlandish words from his native language and use as examples fake German words he coined as substitutes for English terms. He referred to his handkerchief as his "snottenblowen."

[TheBaron]

'Yes ma'am. Even in cold weather.'

 

[bbudde]

15 hours ago, Space Ranger said:

make fun of some of the outlandish words from his native language and use as examples fake German words

No, Schnutenpulli is not a german fake word, they just put together snoot and sweater (Schnute und Pulli) and created a new one like Ackerschnacker (acre field and chat) then for a field phone in low german language/plattdeutsche Sprache:

 

 

 

Cheers

Edited November 1, 2020 by bbudde

[bbudde]

18 hours ago, Pete in Lincs said:

High German speakers probably looked down their noses at it.

Maybe, but some would also call their nose a "Gesichtserker" then. I guess

Cheers

[Pete in Lincs]

4 hours ago, bbudde said:

Gesichtserker

Interesting. That translates as Face bay. And is a joking name for the nose. According to Wikki.

 

[bbudde]

37 minutes ago, Pete in Lincs said:

According to Wikki.

 

And the usual term in a crossword puzzle (viice versa)

Cheers

[Navy Bird]

Not to mention the 60s toe-tapper from Steppenwolf - "Earschplittenloudenboomer." I believe it was in reference to a setting on their Marshall Stack.   

 

I'm up for the pub trivia night, but only if it's a category I know something about. So cross off country-western music...   

 

Cheers,

Bill

 

PS. I knew that humanities degree would pay off somewhere - and here we are on Britmodeller!  

[bbudde]

On 11/1/2020 at 8:28 PM, Pete in Lincs said:

Interesting. That translates as Face bay

Hello Pete., Dict.cc translate it for me as "hooter" but I wouldn't like to call The Hooters "Die Gesichtserker". I mean, I saw them live here and they were great and heavy in front of the cathedreal place then. Alttough "All your zombies" would get to another dimension then now.  Mmmh

 

 

Edited November 2, 2020 by bbudde

[Space Ranger]

On 11/1/2020 at 8:49 AM, bbudde said:

No, Schnutenpulli is not a german fake word, they just put together snoot and sweater (Schnute und Pulli) and created a new one like Ackerschnacker (acre field and chat) then for a field phone in low german language/plattdeutsche Sprache:

I never said it was a fake German word. What I said was that my German instructor would make up fake German words as a way of satirizing such "put together" words.

[bbudde]

11 hours ago, Space Ranger said:

I never said it was a fake German word

You are right and I didn't want to express that in that way. Just wanted to point out that'it is not nonsense word.

Cheers

[TheBaron]

I dunno.

You leave the thread for a week or so and find a language discussion has broken out. Great stuff.

(Given the week that was in it, somebody posted on Twitter that much of the world was experiencing Amerikamüdigkeit: in the best possible way as it turns out.)

 

Another Mon-Fri cycle of grim endeavour at work punctuated at home by some bright spots. Am currently reading David Hobbs' excellent The Royal Navy's Air Service in the Great War in the evenings to take the mind off the day and this arrived in the post midweek as a companion piece:

Like many Air Britain books, these  seem to be getting 'collectible' with regard to some rather heavy pricing out there, but I'd been stalking Mr. Cronin's opus for a few months now until one appeared that wouldn't break the bank to acquire.  I can't help thinking this may come to have a defining hand on some of my future projects: any book with picture captions such as 'Murky but unusual views of HMS Ben-my-Chree' is up my street.

 

TBH he had me just at 'Murky but unusual'.

 

Doubtless many of your are familiar with the book anyway but to my uneducated eyes, the quality of research and range of photographs to elucidate it here make this a defining text.

 

One delightful function of reading Mr. Hobbs is the dry sense of humour which he secretes amongst all the scrupulous data: mentioning -as he does-  that commanding two of the RNAS armoured car units in France were a Major Risk and a Lt. Cmdr. Josiah Wedgewood. I wonder what subaltern was daring enough to refer to them collectively as the Bull and the China Shop....

 

I can't quite remember at what point in the last few days I did this bit I got the rear canopy bulkhead and demisting nozzle done, along with some representative gubbins for the LABS gear  mounted around it:

Due to the variation of shapes and angle in relation to the top of the nose section, these components will be printed as separate items to be added later during construction:

That angled bulkhead itself is also pierced through the centre by the canopy release strut: as I reckon a printed length of unsupported tube that long will warp after curing though, it's more sensible to make a hole for it to be added out of brass tubing later on:

 

Last night and this morning then I did get back in harness to begin some preparatory work on the radome, prior to the AI.18 fittings going inside. The interface between radome and nose section is complicated by various fittings for the latching mechanism that threads around the circumference of the fuselage in this region, as well as by the radome hinge positioned to starboard. The first stage of addressing this involved projecting a drawing of the radome outline onto a new image plane and then altering it to include those sections that encroach inwards to represent the mountings for the latching pins, like so:

You'll be horrified to learn that I had to cheat a little with those circular mounting points around the edge - they should be flush with the lip of the radome (as a consequence of the fact that the surface they are attached to is recessed into the radome slightly) but at 1/72 it's not possible to form a thin enough lip around the edge of the radome to do this, so they are slightly proud - enough to signal their necessary presence, but at 0.2mm, not enough to ruin to ruin the overall looks I feel.

 

Once completed for the radome, these details were then projected back onto the front section of the nose that mates with the radome in order to create their counterparts:

I've added holes for the latching points in this instance when on the aircraft these are actual sharp-looking pins (spigots a better word? ) that stick forward to engage with the previously discussed openings around the radome - the holes here are just pilot holes to be drilled out so that short sections of brass tube/rod can be used to make the pins/spigots/pointy bits. With transparency on for the nose section, you can better see how important it was to get these sections correctly aligned at the design stage:

 

Also visible above is the radome hinge mechanism now installed- a necessarily chunky piece of kit that firstly needed some attention to the outside of the aircraft to make the required openings in the skin. You can just about make out in the screenshot below where I've recessed the rear panel inwards that allows the hinge itself to pivot backwards upon being opened up to access the dish and electronics

You can also see that directly behind this I've reinstated the starboard access hatch: up until now I'd missed the bleedin' obvious in that having the radome open on XN708 means the hatch would obstruct it's rotating backwards (no such issue over to port so that hatch will still be opened up to display contents).

 

Radome open seen from overhead:

To avoid the hinge being too weak to actually support the radome in place required taking some slight liberties with the appearance of some of the finer details of the mounting structure inside of there - largely making a couple of thinner sections a bit thicker to support the weight (as well as for reliable printability):

I'd toyed briefly with the possibility of making this a working hinge - which can certainly be done at scales above 1/72 - but here it would have involved weakening the structure perilously. Here you can see in closer detail the two points where the hinge mounts into the nose:

The top one has a 0.5mm hole in both hinge and mounting plate to enable brass rod to be used to pin it securely into place. The bottom 'arm' of the hinge is about 0.6mm thick and fits into a commensurate opening in the mounting plate inside the nose there.

 

Between the two, I think they should be strong enough to form a fixture that won't snap at a gentle knock:

 

A final render of the latest efforts, showing the void in the nose yet to be filled:

The 'mood board' for the next stage has been assembled in preparation:

Several of these images are courtesy of @CedB who sent them to me yonks back and so it's a pleasure to finally credit him.

 

A quick sketch of the front aspect to help me in understanding  what's going on regarding the major components to be added behind the dish:

Some detail will be too fine to reproduced at this scale but I'm sanguine that between resin components and adding various wires in from...errr...wire later, then a reasonable scale representation of the essentials should be feasible. Buttler (who else?) notes in one of the appendices to his canonical book on the Sea Vixen that the reflector dish is 29" wide, which at 1/72 comes out to 10.2306 mm.

 

Hungry for some hot brass action during the week, I knocked-up an oversize test mule from some scrap to test a workflow I had in mind for the parabola:

The notion here is that the central 'stalk' will simultanously act as a mounting pin at the rear to attach the dish assembly to the operating mechanism behind it:

Damien Burke also notes that the front of the electronics bay was usually obscured by a cover (which I hadn't realized until recently but which makes sense):

 - so luckily XN708 is going to be undergoing maintenance with it off in this instance.

 

That torus mounted on the front of the reflector I've given some thought to and I reckon that a good bet would be to make this from transparency and paint it on the underside only to mimic the visuals of the actual item. We'll see later when this gets tested out if it's going to work as a paint effect.

 

Beautiful winter day here yesterday: I worked outside with a bonfire crackling and the Eastern sky full of froth:

 - whilst a moon set through lanes of vapour in the West:

Peace.

 

 

Tony

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[giemme]

All looking excellent,  as per norm!  

 

Ciao 

[Terry1954]

Giorgio has already summed it up perfectly!

 

Terry