Sea Vixen FAW.1x2

[hendie]

wonderful. Can't think of anything else to say really. I wish I could proffer some advice but you appear to have all the angles covered.

I don't know if there's a similar store in the UK, but you could always look into Miniature hardware for rivets, nuts, bolts and  other incidentals.  I find they always come in handy for additional detailing.  The rivets for example, make great levers if you file the heads flat on two sides.

The drivers lounge is looking nicely busy and workmanlike. Your foray into the alchemy of acid etching is something I look forward to with interest

[Terry1954]

13 hours ago, Brandy said:

Far better roast potatoes in the oven than a bun!

 

Pregnant pause ..............

 

Where was I........... ah yes, I see some Baron etch at some point in our future then. Don't tell Steve @Fritag, he might start this 3D malarky in response!

 

Brilliant stuff as ever.

 

Terry

[TheBaron]

Beautiful evening here as I tap this - our neighbour Declan was round with his gert big JCB 805 yesterday and trimmed all our hedging back so that there's more light spilling across the lawn than there has been in years. With the end of the garden looking due West we've gotten our horizon back again just in time to watch the sun slipping away further southwards along the edge of the world each evening as it sets.

 

To mail first.

 

On 10/11/2020 at 7:14 PM, Martian said:

There will be a wait anyway.

These are not the tidings we are here for: take care of your needs and come back to us when you're able Daddy M.

On 10/11/2020 at 7:20 PM, giemme said:

The cockpit is shaping up

On 10/12/2020 at 9:33 AM, CedB said:

Super detailing on the internals Tony.

Oddly Giorgio and Ced  it's less taxing working up the details inside there as you've so many features to triangulate against each other. Compared with the white-knuckle ride of getting fuselage shapes done right, this is positively relaxing by comparison!

On 10/11/2020 at 7:39 PM, Pete in Lincs said:

Down by the Nav's feet is an odd place to fit the Elsan though.

It's not the container for a very fat carrier pigeon then?

Gah. I can't get nuffink right. 🐦 (not a carrier pigeon)

On 10/11/2020 at 10:00 PM, Navy Bird said:

How were the roast potatoes? 

Rather splendid Bill now that you mention it. Cut in half lengthways, rolled in vegetable oil, plenty of salt, pepper and maize flour. Cooked in a hot oven until a devilishly nice crust forms.

Consume until sated.

On 10/11/2020 at 11:28 PM, CJP said:

Amazing work on the cockpit!- cant wait to see them printed out.

In theory CJ everything you see falls within printable tolerances.

In theory.....

On 10/12/2020 at 2:06 AM, Space Ranger said:

That "stuff from the colonies", as you call it, is one of the three great exports* of my former residence, the beautiful Commonwealth of Kentucky.

I've heard the Tennessee stuff's better.... 

On 10/12/2020 at 5:07 PM, Brandy said:

forethought in figuring out the mounting of it all.

Not often my strong point in life Ian but in this case I'm making a determined effort to think ahead!

On 10/13/2020 at 12:04 AM, hendie said:

I wish I could proffer some advice

About 10 months ago would have been a good point Alan at which to warn: 'You do realize this CAD stuff will come to dominate your waking moments like a raging shapeshifting fever?'

On 10/13/2020 at 6:20 AM, Terry1954 said:

Don't tell Steve @Fritag, he might start this 3D malarky in response!

Is he back on the International Space Station again Terry? <tut-tuts in Morse code> 😁

 

So I loathe it when people start sentences with 'So'.

So I won't.

 

I  must apologize for proffering you some X Band equipment with an incorrect number of buttons and knobs at the weekend. This was unconscionable and has since been rectified:

These AI 18 sets were powerful enough that the one on the Flight Deck experience at Yeovilton is capable of locking onto the aircraft on @CedBs ceiling.

(He doesn't realize that's why the light bulb in his room sometimes gets brighter for no apparent reason on Bank Holidays...)

 

Couple of late sessions at the start of the week also enabled me to complete detailing the cockpit interior and attend to how the seats will be mounted into place (bearing in mind the a the pilot's one will have to be slipped in from above after the cockpit has been fixed inside the fuselage.)

 

Raised platform for the pilot's seat added, along with the beginnings of a control column:

Further study of photographs and I was able to refine the shape of that column to something more there, rather than thereabouts:

Also present in the above are the panels on the port side of the pilot's cockpit.

 

With everything  now in place on that side, the clearances for the pilot's seat to fit in are marginal:

Having measured the gaps though we should just have sufficient wiggle room for it to fit in snug from above:

 

Also in that shot above you can see that I extended the rear rails of the ejector seats vertically downwards and added some corresponding cutouts in the floors for them to both locate and fix  into position firmly enough during assembly.

Pilot:

Observer:

The whole caboodle (excluding the cockpit floor on which all this will sit as a raft to be slid inside from the rear bulkhead:

Finally, I'll leave you with some higher res. renders to get a better idea of what's going on inside there as physical objects arranged around the crew in space:

 

Dying to swing around the front and get cracking on the radar dish &etc. but disciplining myself for the rather arduous task of building the pilot's cannopy* and associated gubbins. As mentioned previously the transparent parts will be vacformed from an experimental resin buck, however, as the front framing around the windshield is somewhat of a 16th century suit of armour helmet in its substantiveness, I've a plan to incorporate some resin and brass to give more realisti visual weight than vaform alone would produce. We'll see if that actually work on the fullness of time. Mustn't forget the observer's door also has some detailing to sort out.

 

Hope your respective weeks are going ok.

More hopefully at the weekend.

Tony

 

*or rather, the two different types of canopy required for these aircraft.

 

 

 

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

29 minutes ago, TheBaron said:

I've heard the Tennessee stuff's better.... 

thems can be fightin words down in those parts. 😉

[Pete in Lincs]

37 minutes ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

thems can be fightin words down in those parts.

How about a drink first though?

 

Quite charming cockpit/bang seat details your Baronship. Put me down on the well impressed list, if you please.

[EDCS87]

Masterful work all around!

 

[Spookytooth]

Quite astonishing work.

Build your on cockpit with added gubbins fitted.

 

Thinking of the weight Tony, will she have metal/brass legs?

 

Stay safe.

 

Simon.

[giemme]

Impressive interiors,  Tony!   

 

Ciao 

[Space Ranger]

4 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

thems can be fightin words down in those parts. 😉

Not to mention aboard the Orbit Jet!! The words "Tennessee" and "bourbon" should never be used in combination!

[michaelc]

37 minutes ago, Space Ranger said:

Not to mention aboard the Orbit Jet!! The words "Tennessee" and "bourbon" should never be used in combination!

 

I don't know, there's got to be something strange going on.  Here I am quietly lurking on this thread, making the odd comment and I see references to whisky, not only here but on another site devoted to wargames!  Yes and before I get pummelled I do realise that there is a difference between whisky, whiskey and.... bourbon.   

[hendie]

5 hours ago, TheBaron said:

You do realize this CAD stuff will come to dominate your waking moments like a raging shapeshifting fever?'

 

spoken like a true CAD monkey

 

 

5 hours ago, TheBaron said:

Hope your respective weeks are going ok.

 

Nope.

 

but thanks for asking.

 

 

5 hours ago, TheBaron said:

however, as the front framing around the windshield is somewhat of a 16th century suit of armour helmet in its substantiveness, I've a plan to incorporate some resin and brass to give more realistic visual weight than vacform alone would produce.

 

Interesting.  I think you have a couple of options available. As you mention, there's brass. However printing may give you several options.  First, there's the print the framing as a complete entity - fully formed etc. I think that may be troublesome due to the support structure needed and the subsequent cleanup. Some parts may be doable though.

 

Another option to explore is treating it (the canopy) as sheet metal... if you can 'unfold' it (may be in more than one piece) you can print it as a flat structure.  Dunno about you but I've always found that the bottom surfaces (closest to the build plate) end up a bit wavy and uneven due to the way resin pools on that surface during the printing process, but any surfaces facing the other way end up being very good in flatness and definition.

If you can unfold the canopy framing into a flat sheet - you can build any greeblies (rivets etc.) onto the flattened surface if needed, you can then print the parts directly on the build plate without any support structures. (I did that one day by accident and printed a perfectly flat sheet, microns thick, and it peeled off the build plate without too much trouble.)

I think you'll be able to get something very close to scale thickness, or at least visually undetectable thickness wise.

 

For removal of the printed part I'd recommend some of these plastic razor blades.  I have started using these lately for part removal (just to be clear!) and found them much better than the original removal tool supplied with the printer.

Now, coming off the build plate, the part(s) should still be very pliable. You can then rinse them carefully, and before final cure, and while still pliable, wrap them around the clear canopy, tape/tack/glue/spit in position and stick them outside for twenty minutes. That'll cure them in situ and they'll be nicely formed directly on the canopy itself.

 

Since parts that thick will take no more than a few minutes to print, you could print different flattened versions  of the canopy frame and cut and paste them all the relevant bits together later.  The biggest problem is likely to be washing the parts without damaging them.

Worth a try?

 

I did search for flattened canopy in case anyone had tried this method before but sometimes google thinks it knows better than us and all I got was these...

 

 

They should stick nicely to the canopy though

 

 

5 hours ago, TheBaron said:

... the pilot's cannopy*

 

*or rather, the two different types of canopy required for these aircraft.

 

ah... cannopy, where n=2.  I saw what you did there.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CedB]

Stunning interiors Tony, just stunning.

 

15 hours ago, TheBaron said:

These AI 18 sets were powerful enough that the one on the Flight Deck experience at Yeovilton is capable of locking onto the aircraft on @CedBs ceiling.

(He doesn't realize that's why the light bulb in his room sometimes gets brighter for no apparent reason on Bank Holidays...)

 

Ah, that's what it is! I thought it was dodgy wiring…  

[Brandy]

More supreme imagery work here Tony.

How long until printing? (I too detest the "so" introduction to a sentence. So unnecessary.) 

 

Ian

[Pete in Lincs]

Some sensible (for once) suggestions there (to me at least) from @hendie

Except for the plastic razor blades. Are they meant for shaving false beards? 

[TheBaron]

Yesterday was a good day for standing up against the forces of entropy that threaten the well-being of a person's buttocks with the onset of winter.

I'm calling this one 'Intimate Causality No.5':

 

With the perimeter hedging cut back I've also now got a better view of the carrier pigeons rooks arriving with the forum mail:

What tidings bring you sweet e-birds?

 

On 14/10/2020 at 18:01, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

thems can be fightin words down in those parts.

Ooo-errr. {withdraws job application to Diplomatic Corps...}

On 14/10/2020 at 18:41, Pete in Lincs said:

Quite charming cockpit/bang seat details your Baronship. Put me down on the well impressed list, if you please.

Thank you young Peter - you're a damn' decent cove for saying so.

On 14/10/2020 at 18:57, EDCS87 said:

Masterful work all around!

 

Most kind of you ED - you are most welcome to the forum also!

On 14/10/2020 at 19:14, Spookytooth said:

Thinking of the weight Tony, will she have metal/brass legs?

Due to their heavy 'naval' nature Simon I'm pretty confident that those resin pillars will support the weight of the aircraft right up until the point that they snap. (I'm a great believer in the preventative  application of hindsight...)

On 14/10/2020 at 20:58, giemme said:

Impressive interiors,  Tony! 

Grazie Giorgio.

(There's more I would have loved to have added  but that simply wouldn't be reproducible in a convincing manner at this scale).

On 14/10/2020 at 22:51, Space Ranger said:

The words "Tennessee" and "bourbon" should never be used in combination!

Out of curiosity Michael, what is the commonly acknowledged geographical boundary that bourbon can be said to authentically hail from within?

On 14/10/2020 at 23:32, michaelc said:

Yes and before I get pummelled I do realise that there is a difference between whisky, whiskey and.... bourbon.

In some Glasgow bars the difference used to be whether you kept your front teeth or not when making the case for false distinctions.

 

In the late 80s I was privileged to be present near closing-time in a Glaswegian hostelry as an elderly boor from South of the border treated the bar staff to his views on the superior qualities of gin compared to those of the favoured uisge-beatha: I don't really need to describe the ensuing events in any detail as you've all seen the pub scene in 'An American Werewolf in London'....

On 14/10/2020 at 23:36, hendie said:

If you can unfold the canopy framing into a flat sheet - you can build any greeblies (rivets etc.) onto the flattened surface if needed, you can then print the parts directly on the build plate without any support structures. (I did that one day by accident and printed a perfectly flat sheet, microns thick, and it peeled off the build plate without too much trouble.)

I really really like this idea Alan (also the plastic razor blades a genius addition for which I thank you). I *think* (based on my current parlous knowledge bank) that I would be unable to unfold the kind of three-dimensional curved surfaces of the Vixen canopy using the sheet metal function as it seems to required a flat 'base' feature to open the surrounding parts out around in relation to. What I really need to discover is some CAD process similar to UV unwrapping in Maya that would let me translate curved geometries into a 2D pattern. There is a plugin for Fusion called Exact Flat which I thought might be good at task this but having just checked it out, it costs over $3000 per annum for the ensuing cloud online conversion service back-end. That's obvs a non-runner so I may experiment with exporting an .obj into Maya and UV unwrapping it there.

 

This happy fellow gives a perfect view of the challenges involved:

I think it may be possible to 3D print that big heavy diagonal/vertical framing for the front windshield whilst having a look at the method you outlined for some of the thinner rear framing.

 

That front frame is quite a clunky beast into which the rear canopy slides shut:

 - whilst the central heating duct up the front of the windshield and the allied frames on either side of it are perfect candidates for slivers of brass.

 

On the earlier canopy of XJ481, there's only a small front fairing to be added, but with the later Mod. on XN708, there is the larger rain-shedding / heating duct arrangement to deal with:

The simplest route I think is to vacform a common perspex transparency for both aircraft, along with common brass fixings and printed front upright frame. The two different sets of fairings can then be printed separately to be added to create the differing early/later canopies.

On 14/10/2020 at 23:36, hendie said:

 

They should stick nicely to the canopy though

Has some animal put slices of tangerine on that?

Citrus fruit has no business near savoury foodstuffs unless it is lemon or lime - the rules are quite clear on this and yet some people seem quite determined to act as if they don't apply to them.

On 15/10/2020 at 09:13, CedB said:

Ah, that's what it is! I thought it was dodgy wiring…

On the plus side, if you leave a microwavable meal out for the afternoon it should be cooked in time for tea...

On 15/10/2020 at 15:36, Brandy said:

(I too detest the "so" introduction to a sentence. So unnecessary.) 

Quite so.

On 15/10/2020 at 15:36, Brandy said:

How long until printing?

I reckon once the canopy(ies)s are done and the hatch for the coal hole it will be time to bang on another print to check quality control Ian. Being so busy at work I'm finding each weekend now I'm a bit tireder than the previous so progress up to that point might take another three weeks.

On 15/10/2020 at 18:19, Pete in Lincs said:

Except for the plastic razor blades. Are they meant for shaving false beards? 

Either that or shaving sex dolls.

 

 

Canopy then.

Obligatory 'mood board' cluster of refs:

 

To build the transparent perspex section of the canopy was essentially a reprise of the method used previously to create bulges like the Microcells and airbrake - define the vertical centreline profile and then project the plan outline of the part in question onto the curved surface of the airframe, ensuring that both intersect with each other where the vertical and horizontal outlines meet:

From this, you can then add the required number of additional vertical profiles to give you an accurate rendition of the changing nature of this shape through three dimensions:

This drawing process took rather a long time due not only to the complex set of interactions as you go from the rear 'teardrop' to the segmented windshield, but the asymmetric nature of the canopy laterally due to the differing heights of the fuselage caused by its curvature in this region. An additional complication is that some reference shots taken looking forward from inside the cockpit l have clearly been photographed using very wide angle lenses that exaggerate both perspective and curvature of the canopy cross section. Until I copped to this my first draft looked more like canopy of an F16 than a Vixen in the mid region....

 

Due to the complex nature of the plan outline around the curve of the top fuselage, this wouldn't loft into a solid object in a single chained operation, so in the I had to create this out of six separate surface sections and then stitch these together to form the required solid.

 

Or rather, giving the resulting solid the material properties of glass so that it becomes transparent:

 

 

 

I should add I made the canopy about 0.2mm smaller than it should be in order to allow for the thickness of the material to be vacformed over it.

I plan to trytwo approaches for vacforming:

1. 3D printing a resin buck and seeing how this will handle vacforming directly.
2. Create a negative mold of the canopy shape in resin in order to make a Milliput moulding of the canopy as an insurance policy should the resin melt/deform.

I've an old test print of the radome knocking about I can try a test on before committing anyway.

 

Listen, that's enough for today - I'm sorry there isn't more to show but too tired for longer intense sessions these days.

Tony

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[giemme]

Looking forward to the vacforming tests, Tony - this looks very promising  

 

Ciao

[perdu]

6 minutes ago, giemme said:

Looking forward to the vacforming tests, Tony - this looks very promising  

 

Ciao

He's right you know, very promising.

 

Nice stack of stuff, presumably something a chap might need in rural climes.

Way beyond my ken I fear.

 

[Pete in Lincs]

8 hours ago, TheBaron said:

Listen, that's enough for today - I'm sorry there isn't more to show but too tired for longer intense sessions these days.

You take it easy! This is supposed to be a hobby that we enjoy as we proceed. If we push the envelope then the enjoyment may falter.

This build is far beyond the shake the box kit, and way too interesting to be abandoned or sidelined.

Half of what you're doing on the electric brain is beyond me anyway, but I'll happily settle for shorter posts if it helps you in any way.

Have a good week, Pete

 

[hendie]

Canopy work looks great Tony. Another brilliant installment.

 

That head on front shot has me wondering though.  I'm sure I've seen a photo on BM during discussions on the Sea Vixen canopy and the canopy was tilted more over to the port side whereas yours is almost vertical. I also seem to remember that the canopy itself was more "blown". i.e. narrower at the bottom edge before flaring out then coming back into the curve at top.

 

I could well be and am most probably wrong but it might be worth checking before going any further

 

I'm sure there's some more knowledgeable folks who can confirm I am definitely going senile

 

 

*** edit***

Ignore my inane ramblings Tony.  All the head on shots I can find show the canopy exactly as you have it.  I'm losing it. It's official

[CedB]

More bloomin' amazing stuff Tony. Caps doffed accordingly Sir  

[AdrianMF]

12 hours ago, hendie said:

Ignore my inane ramblings

There are a lot of photos that look a bit distorted/fisheyed so maybe you picked up on one of them... or maybe you are losing it 

[keefr22]

21 hours ago, TheBaron said:

I'm pretty confident that those resin pillars will support the weight of the aircraft right up until the point that they snap

 

Ah, proper old school materials testing....!!

 

K

[The Spadgent]

On 04/10/2020 at 16:52, TheBaron said:

Who said soft furnishings were easy James? Based on that description I went hunting and realized there was another smaller image of a Mk.4 on the Martin Baker page that seemed to match that cushion appearance:

and amended the shape of mine to something similar:

(The closest leather texture I could find in Fusion that didn't look like elephant skin at 1/72 scale is this Rover 3500 upholstery! 🤦‍♂️)

They are the same (I think) that I built for my venom.

Only thing is I can’t print you a set. Dang!!!!! 😩 Brilliant work on the Vixen kid. ❤️
 

Johnny

[Space Ranger]

On 10/19/2020 at 5:04 AM, keefr22 said:

 

Ah, proper old school materials testing....!!

 

K

Test pilot's last words: "When they said 'test to destruction' I didn't think they meant with me in it!"

[bbudde]

On 10/4/2020 at 2:27 PM, TheBaron said:

PS. Final image - a storm rolling in from Galway bay seen from the hospital room on Tuesday evening of last week:

Hello Tony. Nice work on that so far. I've just choosen that picture as there is a very nice warm front just goiing across my old linden tree in front of my house (the municipal servants will curse it tomorow). now. Dancing leaves in the warm windy air from the south west.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abZnTYVdpNs

 And the one for the seaside soul

 

 

 

Cheers Benedikt

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 21, 2020 by bbudde