Ex-FAAWAFU Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 Unmatched Donkery of the Highest Class, Tony. Love it - it's utterly convincing in appearance 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 Agreed, those look like pics of the real thing more than renderings Ciao 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in Lincs Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 8 hours ago, TheBaron said: I must say that the engine is in danger of becoming an WIP in its own right ! As if that was ever in doubt. Lovely 'donk'. * *For those not familiar with the term, it's old RAF slang for an engine. 'Donk' or Donkey. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 I'm an engineer (too blo*dy mean to buy any of the plethora of available "I'm an engineer" tee shirts) and to see the renderings of the Avon becoming, is just too amazing. Amazing, I'll have one of them when they become available. Amazing. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in Lincs Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 1 minute ago, perdu said: I'll have one of them when they become available. Only available as matched pairs. Gold plating optional at extra cost. Terms and conditions apply. A POS blood group kidney required as deposit. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 Just now, Pete in Lincs said: A POS blood group kidney required as deposit. There's this Albanian itinerant as comes round collecting 'road sacrifices' of metal, I can probably supply said anatomicals. He often comes alone... Winter is coming... 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in Lincs Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 Albanians are all B NEG. Well known fact. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendie Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 I doff my cap to your Baronial binariness. Lovely modeling. May I make one suggestion though.... 8 hours ago, TheBaron said: - I couldn't resist adding the manufacturer's plate.... 😁 I am sure the hive would not object to the RR makers plate being replaced by a Baronial stamp of authenticity ? - and a nice way of giving a nod to yourself for all the research and effort that has gone into this 4 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 11 hours ago, Pete in Lincs said: Albanians are all B NEG. Well known fact. His mate is from Romania. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in Lincs Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 Say no more, Squire! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadbadge Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 Oh wow Tony the renderings look fantastic. Chris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBaron Posted September 5, 2020 Author Share Posted September 5, 2020 Lunchtime, though you wouldn't know it from the unvarying light levels outside. Supposed to be hedge-trimming but each time I stick my head out the back door, it starts to spit tiny bits of the Atlantic onto your head. Oh well, better stay inside for a bit longer and post this instead.... Mailbag first: On 9/4/2020 at 12:11 PM, bbudde said: That looks great Tony. Maybe A " Tony Barony Modelworks Ltd" in the near future? I must admit that with professional retirement still over a decade away, the vast wealth that comes from running a small model company becomes an ever more desirable way to escape the rat-race Benedikt. I worry though that the cosmopolitan glamour of it all would change me as a person....😁 On 9/4/2020 at 6:01 PM, Ex-FAAWAFU said: Unmatched Donkery of the Highest Class, Tony. Love it - it's utterly convincing in appearance On 9/4/2020 at 7:39 PM, giemme said: Agreed, those look like pics of the real thing more than renderings Obliged to you for that endorsement Crisp & Giorgio! (I figure if I can smuggle my mauled shapes past the the assembled expertise on here then it's in the ball-park accuracy wise...) On 9/4/2020 at 7:46 PM, Pete in Lincs said: As if that was ever in doubt. Lovely 'donk'. * *For those not familiar with the term, it's old RAF slang for an engine. 'Donk' or Donkey. Thanks Pete - and for the explanation that saves my blushes in not having to admit that I hadn't a clue what a donk was... On 9/4/2020 at 7:50 PM, perdu said: I'm an engineer (too blo*dy mean to buy any of the plethora of available "I'm an engineer" tee shirts) and to see the renderings of the Avon becoming, is just too amazing. Amazing, I'll have one of them when they become available. Amazing. I can't promise a T-shirt Bill but a err, 'donk' will certainly find its way into your clutches in due course. I'll have the Avon lady call to Streetly when it's ready! On 9/4/2020 at 7:53 PM, Pete in Lincs said: Only available as matched pairs. Gold plating optional at extra cost. Terms and conditions apply. A POS blood group kidney required as deposit. Mrs B has so far coldly rebuffed any suggestions that a coat of Alclad would transform the humble Avon into desirable costume jewellery.... 23 hours ago, hendie said: I am sure the hive would not object to the RR makers plate being replaced by a Baronial stamp of authenticity ? - and a nice way of giving a nod to yourself for all the research and effort that has gone into this Kind of you Alan. Might have to compromise and meet them halfway? 12 hours ago, bigbadbadge said: Oh wow Tony the renderings look fantastic. Cheers Chris! I'd like to take a lot of credit for the rendering quality but the truth is that Fusion is set up so well in terms of basic materials design that designing the 'look' for a certain piece is really very easy indeed. With all the fastenings taken care of over the course of the week I wanted to get started today on adding the items of external equipment around the engine- much of it clustered around the compressor casing and outlet section immediately behind it. As on many occasions in this build I've had occasion to consult the excellent set of walkaround shots up on the Thunder & Lightnings site, such as this one from a series showing the engine in situ from above: Image credit: Damien Burke Particularly important about this sequence of shots is the way that they show you all the sundry pipework connections remaining in place as, despite the irreplaceable nature of the Navy Wings documentation for this build also, the lads in the hangar there are mad divils for a stripdown and have often pulled their pipes off before a camera appears. With one on either side, today's task was to start shaping-out the valves and outlets for the anti-icing system - those two silver mechanisms sitting out on top of the engine at the 11 and 1 o'clock positions, just in front of that arcing framework which divides the front and rear doors of the engine bay. The pipework for the port one supplies an anti-icing feed into the front engine manifold which (as James has already eruditely pointed out) in turn feeds the air into the system of vanes immediately in front of the compressor blades: this still from a Navy Wings' video rather nicely shows where the pipework feeds into the manifold (as well as directly below it the connection for the air starter feed): The corresponding pipework from the starboard valve can be seen in Damien's photo above to run across to port before turning parallel to the manifold feed and subsequenbtly entering the forward firewall in order to supply anti-icing and cabin pressurization into the forward section of the aircraft. Here then is my initial design for the port valve and actuator: Regrettably (due to their small size - 0.1mm⌀ or less - in terms of printing at this scale) I've had to leave off a lot of the bolts that detail the casings for these mechanisms. Despite their diminutive size, these parts took some considerable time to get right due the the variety of shapes and orientations regarding their placement upon curved surfaces and in relation to the pipework needing to run forwards at the correct angles in relation to surrounding structural elements. Eventually I was happy enough that this was as much as I'd get away with emerging from the print process for this mechanism, so the port version was mirrored over to form the starboard counterpart: I still have to keep reminding myself not to lose sight of the fact that in the case of regions like this engine (which clocks in from exhaust outlet to front lip at 45mm in length) there is a clear distinction between the amount of detail I can discern from reference images and that which will reproduce due to the pixel-based limit of the printing process. Before adding in the pipework for these sections, a number of other encrustations remain to be added around the circumference in various locations: oil cooler bleed valve igniter units fuel pump generator mounting That should keep me busy for the forseeable... Ordered a copy of this earlier from one of my favourite booksellers over in York: The papers included appear to be a series of immediately-postwar reflections upon design decisions in direct relation to operational and strategic need; that process whereby OR gives rise to actual 'things' in the world has long fascinated me and this looks set to be a learned 'dive' into naval concerns. If anyone ever discovers a book that examines in detail how and why camouflage colours are picked for various aircraft and vessels, please let me know! (Plenty of literature agreeing/disagreeing on what actual colours were used and brief paragraphs on development in various publications, but as far as I can find out, no critical historical survey of the processes and methodologies used in various countries to arrive at such distinct variations on the basis of OR and experiment has been published). And airships, I want to know what it was like walking inside the length of an airship during flight through a storm. What did it sound/feel/smell like? What does lunar regolith taste li- 16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 I can almost smell that engine. Heady stuff indeed Tony! It appears that the bar is being raised to such a level that a larger printer will be required to achieve the height. Or a bigger bar stool! Ian 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in Lincs Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 4 hours ago, TheBaron said: the lads in the hangar there are mad divils for a stripdown and have often pulled their pipes off before a camera appears. Snort! I'm sorry, but you will keep walking into these! Lovely engine detail in that T & L shot. Lots of power wrapped in metal snakes. In his autobiography, Clive James wrote of an airliner flight where the engines were 'Weaving ropes of power from thin air'. Or something very similar. I have to keep remembering just how small these engines are going to be when printed. BTW, Call me selfish, but I'll be keeping both my kidneys. You're welcome for the RAF slang explanation. I'm happy to help. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 Tony, now I am very curious to see how those details you added to the engine will print out, especially in relation to the supporting points (or whatever they are called, I can't remember now, but anyway I mean the bits you need to print to prevent the whole thing to fall into a void). I'm ready to be impressed Ciao 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 On 9/4/2020 at 7:46 PM, Pete in Lincs said: As if that was ever in doubt. Lovely 'donk'. * *For those not familiar with the term, it's old RAF slang for an engine. 'Donk' or Donkey. Not just RAF; in widespread use in the RN too. Short for “donkey engine”. Hence my use of the word “donkery” 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbudde Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 7 hours ago, TheBaron said: I worry though that the cosmopolitan glamour of it all would change me as a person No, don't change your personality for that. Glamour is glamour and won't satisfy you in the end as long as you're not a limelight hog. As we say here "Einen alten Baum verpflanzt man nicht (so ohne weiteres)." Too many niggles, behaviours, doubts and etc.. And your body is getting older for new surprises. "No risk, no fun" is no option then (anymore). But I guess you will have enough customers here on bm, I think, and you can choose the name for your trademark individually. Cheers Benedikt 1 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Ranger Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 9 hours ago, TheBaron said: I must admit that with professional retirement still over a decade away, the vast wealth that comes from running a small model company becomes an ever more desirable way to escape the rat-race Benedikt. I worry though that the cosmopolitan glamour of it all would change me as a person....😁 I suspect that running a "small model company" might be like running a small winery. A winery owner of my acquaintance was heard to say, when asked how to make a small fortune in the wine-making business, "Start with a large one." 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andwil Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 3 hours ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said: Not just RAF; in widespread use in the RN too. Short for “donkey engine”. Hence my use of the word “donkery” It’s used down under in respect of car engines too. AW 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 That Avon is simply divine, knock them out in 24th or 16 th and I'm sure you will have a market for them! Love the Baron/RR data plate! On 9/5/2020 at 2:52 PM, TheBaron said: Image credit: Damien Burke Particularly important about this sequence of shots is the way that they show you all the sundry pipework connections remaining in place as, despite the irreplaceable nature of the Navy Wings documentation for this build also, the lads in the hangar there are mad divils for a stripdown and have often pulled their pipes off before a camera appears. The box lower right with the pipe running forward and through the fwd spectacle beam is the controller and ducting for the main intakes heating system. The box on the other side and pipework controls and feeds the main deicing system, both feed from the rear stage of the compressor. I think the thick trunking left side is the cooling air ducting for the rear engine area. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBaron Posted September 9, 2020 Author Share Posted September 9, 2020 On 9/5/2020 at 5:35 PM, Brandy said: I can almost smell that engine. 'Scratch and sniff' kits Ian. There's an idea! (Thanks for your kind comments). On 9/5/2020 at 7:57 PM, Pete in Lincs said: Snort! I'm sorry, but you will keep walking into these! The spirit of Donald McGill is strong in this thread Pete! On 9/5/2020 at 7:57 PM, Pete in Lincs said: In his autobiography, Clive James wrote of an airliner flight where the engines were 'Weaving ropes of power from thin air'. Or something very similar. That's a beautiful phrase isn't it? Mr.James was also an expert on WW2 pilots and aircraft as I recall seeing a television interview with him astonishing his interviewer with the the depth of his knowledge on the subject. On 9/5/2020 at 7:57 PM, Pete in Lincs said: I have to keep remembering just how small these engines are going to be when printed. About 4.5cm in length.... On 9/5/2020 at 8:40 PM, giemme said: Tony, now I am very curious to see how those details you added to the engine will print out, especially in relation to the supporting points Anything 0.2mm thickness or above should print Giorgio - as long as it is solidly supported either by the surrounding structure of the aircraft of else with the printing supports added later on in pre-print preparations. In deciding which features will print as part of a larger ensemble structure and which need to be printed separately, the actual orientation of the parts in relation to the vertical print axis is another variable that if juggled correctly can help avoid having a forest of supports to deal with later. The latest version of the Chitubox printing software has simplified matters enormously and continues to improve in facility with each release. Anything falling below that 0.2mm threshold is immediately disqualified from my designs at 1/72. On 9/5/2020 at 9:12 PM, Ex-FAAWAFU said: Not just RAF; in widespread use in the RN too. Short for “donkey engine”. Hence my use of the word “donkery” Am now curious what they call actual donkeys. Don't tell me they're referred to as Avons.... On 9/5/2020 at 11:00 PM, bbudde said: Glamour is glamour and won't satisfy you in the end as long as you're not a limelight hog. Being an introvert by nature Benedikt, limelight has the same effect upon me as sunlight upon a vampire. On 9/5/2020 at 11:00 PM, bbudde said: And your body is getting older for new surprises. You're exactly right! On 9/6/2020 at 12:56 AM, Space Ranger said: I suspect that running a "small model company" might be like running a small winery. A winery owner of my acquaintance was heard to say, when asked how to make a small fortune in the wine-making business, "Start with a large one." Sage advice Michael, though if course such things rarely stop those gripped by the obsession/passion/adventure do they? On 9/7/2020 at 1:00 PM, 71chally said: That Avon is simply divine, knock them out in 24th or 16 th and I'm sure you will have a market for them! More details incoming James! 😁 On 9/7/2020 at 1:00 PM, 71chally said: I think the thick trunking left side is the cooling air ducting for the rear engine area. I've a bunch of drawings from the manual I need to look up as those items will get done in the near future as well. Not sure if that series of shallow bulges/undulations along their surfaces will reproduce at this scale but we'll give it a go... Work has become increasingly intense and complex of late with regard to planning activities around the various health restrictions on spaces and numbers but despite these pressures, I've been deliberately making time to carry on with the designs here as a useful way of detoxing from the day's demands, to the point that as of tonight, I think I've finished adding all that can be usefully printed in direct proximity to or as part of the engine. Any extra piping that surrounds the engines in the bays will form separate elements installed after the engine has been installed at the construction stage. Here's an exploded view then of what got produced over the last few days: There are of course further details for things like the fuel control unit that sit right underneath these engines but as these are either obscured by the photographic angles from above/side in most reference shots or else obscured by Stygian shadow, I'd rather leave them off than invent fictitious outlines and proportions. A quick walk around of the above parts added in series at their respective positions around the Avon. 1. Bleed valve on the starboard side: 2. Igniter unit (slung underneath) plus something above it that I think is to do with the oil system/cooler (I'll have a thumb through the engine manual later to see if I can identify that part more clearly for you): 3. Air starter intake pipe: 4. Mumble mumble I think this bit is to do with the fuel pump system: 5. The ring of (what I think are) the igniter plugs immediately forward of the combustion chamber: 6. Anti-icing supply to front manifold on port side: 7. Cabin pressurizing and anti-icing feed to forward section on starboard side: Belt and braces with everything on: Having recently acquired an external graphics accelerator for the laptop to run projects at work, I realized that I'd not yet given any of the Sea Vixen designs a run through at the high res. render setting ad was pleased to find it blisteringly fast compared to what the laptop had been able to achieve on its own. What follows then is a virtual walkaround of the completed engine - far, far too shiny in appearance and lacking any detailed colour work that would be present in the finished painted object, but this should at least give a better sense of its eventual emergence as a physical entity: Finally, a few shots of it in the fuselage to give an idea of it in its final setting: As long as there are no nasty surprises in the next couple of days it might be time to do a test print of the engine so at the weekend. Thanks for looking in! Night all. Tony 17 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spookytooth Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 That looks absolutely fantastic Tony. I/we cannot wait to see this take shape. Simon. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 Words fail me! ...apart from those words, obviously 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbudde Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 As above and good to hear you that you are down to earth. Makes signifcant things much easier sometimes! Looks really great and I'm keen to see it printed. Cheers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 La vache sainte! [Holy Cow, or pidgin French attempt at same] 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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