71chally Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 While we're on the doors, and I think that you have captured this looking at your CADs, but the doors attached to the legs are angled outboard at their leading edges when open, ie they are not straight fwd to aft. Notice in this shot we are looking straight down the door, but the aircraft is 3/4s on to us. de Havilland Sea Vixen FAW.1 XJ481 by James Thomas, on Flickr 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendie Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 1 hour ago, TheBaron said: My supposition that it was a bottle-opener for the deck crew beers cruelly wide of the mark then. 😁 No, 71chally said the primary use was to give the doors clearance for the Red Top missile fins. He never said anything about what else they were used for. Expert wiggle removal though. Where are they going to crack the bottles open now? 5 hours ago, TheBaron said: On 6/30/2020 at 3:07 PM, Pete in Lincs said: My favourite Victor Borges sketch... - which I'd never seen Pete. Absolutely superb - what timing and grace he had with that audience. I hate introducing thread drift like this in such an enthralling thread but this was too good to pass up. After Pete mentioned his favorite sketch, I had a look for one of mine where Victor did "famous endings" of various pieces. I couldn't find it but came across this... I think this is some of Victor at his finest. It's laugh after laugh after laugh from start to finish. How he can pack so much great humor into 10 minutes is just incredible. Regarding those wing folds. I think I'd be tempted to forego a three dimensional/multiple axes slicing operation and just do a simple vertical slice through the wing at the most appropriate geometry. I'd follow that up by using boolean operations to add and subtract from each wing half, top and bottom surfaces. Maybe not the most elegant solution but sometimes using an axe to take the top off the boiled egg works, and I think would be easier to make modifications later if required. I'mm sure you'll figure out a sublimely simple and elegant solution to achieve the requisite chop so I'll go sit at the back and play with my train 1 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in Lincs Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 17 hours ago, hendie said: I think this is some of Victor at his finest. A musical genius. Thanks for that. Boolean? I thought that was a Library in Oxford. A quick Googly gave me this. What is Boolean NOT? The boolean NOT operator ("!") inverts the value of a boolean expression. ... The boolean exclusive XOR operator ("^") will result in true if one and only one of the values on the sides of the operator is true. Now I hope that is clear to you all. there will be questions later. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 55 minutes ago, Pete in Lincs said: The boolean NOT operator ("!") inverts the value of a boolean expression. ... The boolean exclusive XOR operator ("^") will result in true if one and only one of the values on the sides of the operator is true. Now I hope that is clear to you all. there will be questions later. I remember that from an IT training course. Well, I say I remember that, what I actually remember is my eyes glazing over, just like they've done again now....!! Keith 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Ranger Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 As one with a mathematics minor, I cannot resist posting this: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in Lincs Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 19 hours ago, Space Ranger said: As one with a mathematics minor Is that anything like a Morris Minor? Which raises the question, Was the Morris 1000 metric? Ours was about three inches too big to fit into the yard. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather Kay Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 2 minutes ago, Pete in Lincs said: Was the Morris 1000 metric? Well, yes, it was. 1000 cubic centimetres. Okay, 998, being pedantic. So a shade under a litre. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in Lincs Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 3 minutes ago, Heather Kay said: So a shade under a litre Though there's better shade under a tree. (Sorry, Heather. I'm in a silly mood). It's Friday and I have a glass of Ossett Brunette here. A rather nice beer. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Ranger Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 57 minutes ago, Pete in Lincs said: Is that anything like a Morris Minor? Nothing at all. Considering the length of time it took me to graduate, it might as well have been called a Mathematics Major Effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamden Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 1 hour ago, Heather Kay said: Well, yes, it was. 1000 cubic centimetres. Okay, 998, being pedantic. So a shade under a litre. Well the later ones were 1098cc so just over a litre so take your choice.🤣 Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBaron Posted July 3, 2020 Author Share Posted July 3, 2020 On 7/1/2020 at 10:16 PM, 71chally said: the doors attached to the legs are angled outboard at their leading edges when open That's happening James. (With the axis of rotation in relation the door shape at its end point this seems to be a natural consequence) On 7/2/2020 at 12:08 AM, hendie said: Where are they going to crack the bottles open now? Commence 'Operation Arsecheeks'..... On 7/2/2020 at 12:08 AM, hendie said: I hate introducing thread drift like this in such an enthralling thread but this was too good to pass up. This is not by any means thread drift Alan but enrichment - post away old thing! On 7/2/2020 at 12:08 AM, hendie said: I'mm sure you'll figure out a sublimely simple and elegant solution to achieve the requisite chop Always do. After I've tried everything else first. On 7/2/2020 at 5:18 PM, Pete in Lincs said: Now I hope that is clear to you all. there will be questions later. As long as they don't turn into police enquiries..... On 7/2/2020 at 6:15 PM, keefr22 said: I remember that from an IT training course. Well, I say I remember that, what I actually remember is my eyes glazing over Ahhhh, the classic Boolean THAT operator in action Keith! 22 hours ago, Space Ranger said: As one with a mathematics minor, I cannot resist posting this: Unfortunately that wouldn't play At this end Michael - maybe a copyright restriction for Ireland? Mr. Lehrer's work has a perennial welcome here however. 2 hours ago, Pete in Lincs said: Ours was about three inches too big to fit into the yard. Presumably on account of the surfeit of boys that Kelis' milkshake had attracted to it. 2 hours ago, Heather Kay said: So a shade under a litre What's that in shillings Heather? 2 hours ago, Pete in Lincs said: I have a glass of Ossett Brunette here Is that French for 'small brown horse'? 12 minutes ago, Hamden said: Well the later ones were 1098cc so just over a litre so take your choice Hard to believe the average mobile phone now has more memory than cars back then Roger. I can still remember where I was when President Kennedy landed on Marilyn Monroe. Having decided to flood the guest bedroom soon after the recent flooding of the kitchen caused by the dishwasher, the Baronial chambers have been moister than usual. Cleanup operations and disposal of a ponging carpet put matters Vixonian somewhat further back in the hustings than hoped, although I did make an initial start on a main gear wheel earlier. In relation to James' previous point about the angling outward of the main gear door, in looking at head-on photos it seems also to be the case that the main gear legs don't go straight down but angle inwards a few degrees from the vertical something like this? Tony 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 They do, here's one in Crisps' favourite colour scheme, to prove the point https://www.airliners.net/photo/Red-Bull/De-Havilland-DH-110-Sea-Vixen-D3/1138679/L 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 I find the pink schematic slightly disturbing (entirely my problem), but it shows very well your problem Ciao 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather Kay Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 11 minutes ago, TheBaron said: What's that in shillings Heather? About five and seven-eighths. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qn30jEkPz7 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 14 minutes ago, TheBaron said: the Baronial chambers have been moister than usual. Moderators! Moderators! I didn’t think smut like this was allowed on the board 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in Lincs Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 12 minutes ago, TheBaron said: the Baronial chambers have been moister than usual. No comment. It seems that my Morris 1000 comments were too subtle for most. Ah well. It was funny in my head anyway. Or maybe I've been driven round the bend after working for three days? 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 Sorry, I missed the bit about the flooding, hope you get that sorted soon and that doesn't affect things too much. I got flooded out of a property before, won't ever forget that! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadbadge Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 Great work on the u/c doors etc, a pink Sea Vixen!!! My daughter will love that, she asked if she could paint a model, when I asked her what she intended to do she said pink with rainbows on the wings, so I quickly built up the old Frog Sea Venom for her to do this (this was at the beginning of lockdown) and it's still sat waiting for her to paint!!! Hope the dish washer situation is sorted. Keep up the good work All the best Chris 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendie Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 16 hours ago, giemme said: I find the pink schematic slightly disturbing (entirely my problem), but it shows very well your problem Ciao Giorgio - the pink is still infinitely preferable to that Red Bullshi oops... scheme 16 hours ago, TheBaron said: Having decided to flood the guest bedroom soon after the recent flooding of the kitchen On the face of it a seemingly strange decision, but each to their own they say It's a scientifically proven fact that things happen in threes y'know. With that in mind Tony, here's the latest in fashion apparel for the hygroscopically challenged modeler - Aaaaaand it matches your pink vixen theme! no need to thank me. s'all part of the service 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 1 hour ago, hendie said: your pink vixen theme! Wasn't that a 1980's female rock band? Either that or a previously unknown Peter Sellers film. Ian 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBaron Posted July 4, 2020 Author Share Posted July 4, 2020 22 hours ago, 71chally said: They do, here's one in Crisps' favourite colour scheme, to prove the point Much better illumination on the undersides of that one than my refs showing this angle James - thanks for the confirmation. 22 hours ago, giemme said: I find the pink schematic slightly disturbing 3 hours ago, Brandy said: Wasn't that a 1980's female rock band? Either that or a previously unknown Peter Sellers film. 😁 Giorgio & Ian: I'm starting a rumour that The Beatles' Yellow Submarine film was originally to be called Pink Vixen, with all the voices done by Victor Borge.... 22 hours ago, Heather Kay said: About five and seven-eighths. Is that at 1/72 Heather? 22 hours ago, LostCosmonauts said: Moderators! Moderators! I didn’t think smut like this was allowed on the board Come for the filth, stay for the CAD..... 22 hours ago, Pete in Lincs said: It seems that my Morris 1000 comments were too subtle for most. Not now Pete. He's on a trunk call: 22 hours ago, 71chally said: Sorry, I missed the bit about the flooding, hope you get that sorted soon and that doesn't affect things too much. I got flooded out of a property before, won't ever forget that! All well thanks. Carpet tossed to become weed suppressant in the graden where needed and a new dishwasher arriving Monday. The ghastly pong of damp shag-pile has thankfully abated too... 9 hours ago, bigbadbadge said: My daughter will love that, she asked if she could paint a model, when I asked her what she intended to do she said pink with rainbows on the wings, so I quickly built up the old Frog Sea Venom for her to do this (this was at the beginning of lockdown) and it's still sat waiting for her to paint!!! Tell her to get on with it Chris - I'm sure it would look wonderful! 5 hours ago, hendie said: With that in mind Tony, here's the latest in fashion apparel for the hygroscopically challenged modeler - Aaaaaand it matches your pink vixen theme! Be careful what you wish for Alan: from 1988-89 a pink jumpsuit, silver belt and motorcyle boots were a routine part of my wardrobe - partly on account of living in Glasgow for a few months on an exchange and discovering the brilliant Barras market! Sartorial iniquities aside, amidst all the domesticity there have been some moments free to repair to the interface and slap some more drawings togegther. Unlike the front gear - which has apparatus all nice and cleanly displayed from multiple angles - the main gear coquettishly giggles at you from behind a fan its door and wheel. Late, but not too late, I remembered the Prime Portal site had been incredibly useful back in the Iron Chicken days, and again it came up trumps with some excellent shots of the main gear by Howard Mason, which were duly added to the 'mood board': One thing I've learned to be cautious of in this respect is that across many shots online there are considerable variations in how far the shock absorber unit is extended, which can fool you into producing elements to the wrong length. In Mr Mason's shots for example, most features are well-shown, however the shock absorber is almost completely closed, whereas on James' shots and the Red Bull one I'm using on the mood board above as references for extents, the shock is naturally opened up much further. The Navy Wings guys have a lovely video of an undercarriage test here with the Vixen up on jacks so that you can see the shocks fully extended with no loading: To use a phrase repeated regularly here: 'as with so many other things about the Vixen', the main gear leg is not a straghtforward pillar but changes cross section significantly in a number of areas from wheel to well, so - as with many stages here - I started with a rough pencil sketch to understand the key alignments: First up was to buld the wheel of known dimensions in order to have a visual baseline to judge the accuracy of surrounding parts against: - and the more prosaic reverse, that's most covered by sundry excresences: You can see hin the above screenshot also that the 'blister' has been added to the outer gear door. A later part of the leg build will be forming the traingular top section of the leg so I made sure to record the width of the wheel well at that point in order to ensure the gear cross section fits (there being a clear gap between the leg and well wopeing in this respect): After creating the lower section of the shock absorber, I added a couple of (dashed, brown) construction lines to help me work out angles of the 'scissors' arms that stick out forwards of the gear: Some necessary cheating on thickness with those arms I'm afraid as the actuality scales-down as too thin to print successfully at 1/72; this is the best compromise possible in that it retains two arms top and bottom, but they lack the more involved angles and wider horizontal separation of the original: That took much longer to acheive than the corresponding level of work on the nose gear due to the need for constant readjustment and modification along the way. Before going any further I decided to pause and see if the all-important 'sit' of the aircraft was working: What do you think - does it need a little more down-angle at the back? My eyes are too tired now tonight to make a clear call. Gear displacements form the front though looking ok to me so far: The main legs still look slightly askance of course because I still need to add the triangular vertical section to it starting about halfway up, and unless my eyes deceive me, it is itself canted slightly outward from the already angled centreline of the main gear leg. We'll get to that tomrrow after a night's sleep hopefully, along with completing the gubbins around the axle area too: Tony 17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 That pencil sketch catches the angled leg and the thus angled axle perfectly 👍 Excellent wheel renders, I would have gone the easy route on those and brought some of the excellent resin available, I knew you wouldn't though! The pink Vixen, sounds like something that might loiter in a knicker drawer. 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 I have no knowledge of the aircraft so I can't speak about the accuracy, but the result looks excellent - love those renders, especially the one showing the "sit". Have you already mentioned/thought about how you are going to reproduce the clear parts? Ciao 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in Lincs Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 Now look here! As a founder member of the Johnny Morris Animal magic appreciation society, I have to say that the Elephant in question was not connected to the GPO. (1960's) I think this chimp needed a new agent, however. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAILTQLI5oY In view of your nice legwork on the aforementioned Pink Vixen I will forgive any transgressions upon receipt of a well stuffed brown envelope (as they say. Ahem). As for mainleg extensions. I've found in the past that the last landing can have an effect, as can the fuel/ordnance state. Museum Aircraft cannot be trusted at all! On the PC-9 for example, it was possible to lift the wingtip in order to extend the gear, (if it looked low) and it would then stay at that level. Kept the Pilots happy! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendie Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 4 hours ago, TheBaron said: What do you think - does it need a little more down-angle at the back? can't say for sure. I think you're pretty darn close though. It's hard to tell without the canopy on there as well as that adds to the overall look you went to Ra Barras wearing a pink jumpsuit ? You are a very, very, very, VERY brave man s'all I can say 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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