Space Ranger Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 6 hours ago, limeypilot said: b) try to print external genitalia for it. There really are no bounds to this hobby! Don;t give him any ideas! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBaron Posted June 24, 2020 Author Share Posted June 24, 2020 On 6/22/2020 at 8:27 PM, Pete in Lincs said: Are we really reduced to using fluffy Penguins as a unit of measurement? Pro tip: never try to measure a killer whale with one Pete. On 6/22/2020 at 9:26 PM, 71chally said: Ye gadds, it's tiny Tony! Dr Tinkle will see you now! Lots of detail going into that arrester hook bay, lovely job. Where does detailing the arrestor gear bay end and falling down a rabbit hole begin James? On 6/22/2020 at 9:39 PM, The Spadgent said: Digi-tastic. 🤩 ps. Glad you’re feeling better. Thanks on x2 counts Johnny. On 6/22/2020 at 11:22 PM, CedB said: ut then… arrestor hook bay detail at 1/72? That's gonna be about the size of a gnat's whisker As Humphrey Littleton would have said! (Ced). 😁 On 6/22/2020 at 11:24 PM, hendie said: As tempting as it is, the Mars can handle 99% of anything I'll want to print in the foreseeable future. Same here Alan: the only difference I can see in output terms is that of the size of the piece, and I imagine pretty quickly with the subjects we work that it would increase the number of orientation/support problems many fold. On 6/22/2020 at 11:24 PM, hendie said: I think once you get under a certain diameter, the viscosity of the resin prevents the excess from draining away and can end up getting (partially) cured later. One thing to look into is shrinkage over time. Both points are on my radar and will indeed for the basis of the next set of test prints, given the wide variety of thicknesses starting to come into play by this stage. For some of the smaller pieces I'll also give you increased exposure tests a run myself. On 6/23/2020 at 8:11 AM, giemme said: Looks like you haven't lost your touch after all, Tony Appearances are certainly deceiving Giorgio - after not touching the aircraft for a few days my brain was all over the place for the first couple of hours! On 6/23/2020 at 8:22 AM, Hamden said: Glad your feeling better More superb design work in search of the definitive 1/72 Sea Vixen! Although I like a lot of others don't understand the CAD/3D printing systems I can appreciate the time and trouble you go to in search of accuracy. Looking forward to more of the same Thank you on all counts Roger - the sheer range of detail that I never noticed on this aircraft until studying it more closely continues to amaze me! On 6/23/2020 at 2:10 PM, limeypilot said: I think you must be the first to a) assert that a Vixen is male, and b) try to print external genitalia for it. There really are no bounds to this hobby! Proud that this comment appeared in a thread of mine. #myworkhereisdone 18 hours ago, Space Ranger said: Don;t give him any ideas! As if I would! As often happens after a night or two's repose you come back to a job and realize you haven't quite got things as they should be. In this case I'd managed to pull some more detailed views out of the shadowed bay in Photoshop and realized that I hadn't understood the interface 'twixt Hook, Hinge & Hydraulic. (Sounds like an animatronic Hinge & Bracket tribute act...). This is my revised attempt: Differences now are a modified hook mounting and the fact that the hydraulic actuator is now mounted more vertically in the fully-retracted posture. Of course, when closed (as it will be on XJ481), none of this will be visible, but on '708 I need to remember that the acuator will be extended downward, so produced a second version with this in place: Another addition are the 'wings' on the inside of the door at the hinge joint - I've no satisfactor lateral view of these due to the impossible viewing angle but when viewed from the rear looking up and in, you can just make out features similar to this extending back into the forward section of bulge. It won't be visible when finished of course but will make another useful additional mointing point to hold the lowered door in place. Whilst on the subject of mounting - a closer-in view: - I've thickened the actuator arm to about 0.4mm and cut a wider (0.52mm) mounting hole for it in the roof of the bay. As the actuator meets a thicker section right about there, the idea is to house it in a 0.5mm brass tubing sheath for strength. As Alan's previously noted. I'll doubtless have to 'fully cleanse and refresh' it with a drill after printing due to accumulated resin, so this is much in the manner of a pilot hole. Also note the remodelled hook mount - tapering nowmore towards the rear. The fruits of image processing also revealed I was wrong in my initial designs for the bit that meets the actuator - from what I can see it's less of an upward-angled arm (as I had it on Monday) and more of a sort of Welsh harp shape that's part of the overall forging, as shown here now. I also got the pocket rocket holder housing for the Microcell rockets done: Complicated bugger due its highly-organic profiles. The rear part of it I've just left simplified (rather than eleborately-curved like the front opening) as that section will be invisible and I want a squared-off and stable mounting point. These units were removable (Tony Buttler has a lovely shot in the appendix of his Sea Vixen book of one being serviced) and iirc were designed to be loaded as a single unit with the rockets already installed. I actually came across an article yonks back (typically since misplaced) in an academic research archive, reproducing an old 1960s materials science paper that talked about the housing being made - if memory serves - out of some kind of plastic/resin compound. Buttler also notes acerbically in his general description of the FAW.1 that from his conversations with pilots, this rocket system was deactivated on service aircraft. On early production aircraft (as was XJ481), these were not installed so the sleekness of the nose was unblemished in this area. I'm saying this to remind myself as much as anything as it keeps slippiing my mind: In the above shot you can see that I've now formed the negative space in the underside of the nose that accomadate the rocket housings on '708, along with a feature on the FAW.1 that I'd been oblivious to until quite recently - the scalloped-out section behind the Microcell housing (presumably to deflect rocket blast?): On FAW.2s (such as you seen on XP924 in flight) this scalloped rear was faired over and the Microcell recess itself repurposed to provide a coolant supply for the Red Top / Firestreak sensors. Lateral view of all in place: The front of the Microcell pack has to be designed at such an angle that it closes flush but has sufficient clearance upon opening: Mirrored for a test-viewing: Put yer dukes up! A quick test-sketch earlier revealed it would just have been possible to actually add in the 14 rocket openings per pack, however, the idea is a non-starter as the actual thickness of the walls separating them would have been non-existent at this scale - in this case we'll have to settle for adding them at the painting stage instead. Sun and blue sky beckon out the back, along with Robert Wohl's thoroughly excellent 'A Passion for Wings' to finish-off over afternoon tea. Civlilized as feck me. Thanks for looking in and hope all is well with all of you. Tony 18 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedB Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 Great update Tony, more great stuff 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 Ditto. Not only the modelling/designing stage, but also the sleuthing! Ian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in Lincs Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 I continue to be amazed at the deterioration of @CedB's double entendre spotting skills. Or maybe he's just run out out of f'nars? The Hendie quotes and your Airbrake jack comments had me grinning anyway. The material you are looking for is probably Phenolic resin. The drop tanks were made of the same material, and had a warning stencil to that effect. Lovely schematics and thinking, your Baronship. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadbadge Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 Great work Tony, glad you're feeling better. All the best Chris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendie Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 5 hours ago, TheBaron said: never try to measure a killer whale with one Pete. and just where are we going to find another Pete? Nice doodling. 5 hours ago, TheBaron said: A quick test-sketch earlier revealed it would just have been possible to actually add in the 14 rocket openings per pack, however, the idea is a non-starter as the actual thickness of the walls separating them would have been non-existent at this scale - in this case we'll have to settle for adding them at the painting stage instead. Decal perhaps? Or you could just do 14 little inverted cones/frustums into the face. You probably wouldn't need to go deeper than 0.5 ~ 0.75 mm and a spot of paint in each of the cones would give the impression of 'ere be 'oles 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedB Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 4 hours ago, Pete in Lincs said: I continue to be amazed at the deterioration of @CedB's double entendre spotting skills. Or maybe he's just run out out of f'nars? Sorry Pete - it's this damned heat! Plenty of fnaars left I promise and, when it cools down a bit, I'll be sure to whip one out 1 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 An extra mark to Hendie for his use of “frustum” in casual conversation 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry1954 Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 At least he didn't specify a right frustum. That could have been construed as him getting reet techie un uz" 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBaron Posted June 25, 2020 Author Share Posted June 25, 2020 An extraordinary division of the sky last evening. Sunfall in clear air on the Western side: - whilst simulatenously dark pre-mamma robing the East: Humidity-dreams through the night like, something out of Tennessee Williams... Nonetheless, I seem to have stumbled into a major motivatational streak at the present so taking advantage of every spare moment to press on with blocking-out the secondary details, aka: bumps and hollows. 23 hours ago, Brandy said: Ditto. Not only the modelling/designing stage, but also the sleuthing! Agatha Crusty me. 🕵️♀️ - though not sleuthy enough to notice until this morning that you've changed your forum moniker Ian! 20 hours ago, Pete in Lincs said: I continue to be amazed at the deterioration of @CedB's double entendre spotting skills. Or maybe he's just run out out of f'nars? The Hendie quotes and your Airbrake jack comments had me grinning anyway. The 'oul feller's no been the same since he went looking for baps down the Co-op and came away with sticky buns. 20 hours ago, Pete in Lincs said: The material you are looking for is probably Phenolic resin. The drop tanks were made of the same material, and had a warning stencil to that effect. Phenolic sounds familiar Pete - same stuff the radome was made from? 20 hours ago, bigbadbadge said: Great work Tony, glad you're feeling better. Kind of you as ever Chris - my thanks! 18 hours ago, hendie said: and just where are we going to find another Pete? A rePete? 18 hours ago, hendie said: Nice doodling. Ta Alan - amidst the doodles I also knocked up a batch of Scottish morning rolls and by jove they are the finest thing to make up a bacon roll from. Having established a regular pandemic supplier of bulk strong bread flour and French (Saf-Levure) yeast the move from hipster-sourdough is now complete! 18 hours ago, hendie said: Or you could just do 14 little inverted cones/frustums into the face. You probably wouldn't need to go deeper than 0.5 ~ 0.75 mm and a spot of paint in each of the cones would give the impression of 'ere be 'oles Advice duly taken E pluribus frustums follow in a bit! 16 hours ago, CedB said: I promise and, when it cools down a bit, I'll be sure to whip one out Unlikely Ced. They usually retreat in cold weather.... 7 hours ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said: An extra mark to Hendie for his use of “frustum” in casual conversation That'll be the Scottish aristocracy for ye. 6 hours ago, Terry1954 said: At least he didn't specify a right frustum. That could have been construed as him getting reet techie un uz" Am I the only one on here that didn't go to Eton Terry? Chapter 7 - Recess, Dimple & Cavity. Having finally re-located the parson's nose for the rear of the exhaust fairing (I'd renamed it the midst of re-organizing the design heirarchy), I was able to finish off work on the arrestor gear by creating the negative space that the hook and shaft are housed in when retracted: These jobs are getting simpler now that I've developed a methodology for dealing with such tasks -usually now only requiring about 3-4 intersected drawings to create the required three dimensional forms: @hendies frustum idea I really really liked as a piece of elegant compromise, which I further compromised by eschewing cone and proceeding to dimple: Fourteen dimples in fact, of about 0.55mm diameter/depth. These should print without compromising edge strength too much and show up nicely under a tenebrous* pigment. Whilst back on this section I also took the opportunity to add a square locating lug (about 0.9mm each side) and slightly oversize hole in the fuselage to receive it: From there it was on to the well for the nose gear and some careful study of schematics in the manual: I made up a working sketch from all these various sources as a way of trying to understand what's going-on inside this under - photographed area (lots of synoptic & hoblique photos floating around but none that I can see with the camera stuck up inside for close scrutiny). My crude understanding of what's happening ion there structurally: The rear of the nosewheel bay appears to be defined by the arcing inner bay to house the retracting wheel. Where the curve of this intersects with that forward arc to accomadating the rotation of the main leg there is a mounting point (2) for the radius arm. Somewhere at (1) is the mounting for the main leg itself I think and in front of it some extra gubbins connected with the undercarriage that sits faired in below the radar gear. Very little will be seen inside there at this scale of course but I like to try and understand what's going on. It occurred to me that as the nopsewheel is a prominent geometric feature in this region, that it would provide a useful datum to keep scale and structure consistent. A search of the maintenace section of the manual yielded the required numbers: 24" tubeless @ 1/72 =8.46mm: and in retacted posture in relation to the nosewheel door opening: I'm open to correction on this interpretation as the manual drawings themselves are a trifle sketchy in terms of overall shape on the negative space inside the fuselage thus required. To give some idea of the numbers: From point where radius rod is mounted to door opening is just over 7mm. Transparent view showing bay: Doors for that to build next. Tony *They're presudo-frustums for God's sake - of course they're not gonna use just any old 'dark' paint. 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 23 minutes ago, TheBaron said: Sunfall in clear air on the Western side: - whilst simulatenously dark pre-mamma robing the East: Oddly enough, we could see a really impressive looking thick blanket of mammatus a fair way to the west of us as the sun went down - may have been the eastern edge of what you could see depending on the extent of the bank? Bright clear blue sky directly overhead and everywhere else we could see! Keith 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in Lincs Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 1 hour ago, TheBaron said: same stuff the radome was made from? Could well be. The new wonder material of the age. I've seen pictures on here somewhere of the droptank stencils. I just about remember it from my Airframe Mechs course in 1976! An interesting post as always. BTW, RePete? Must be the bubbles in this drink. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 1 hour ago, TheBaron said: It occurred to me that as the nopsewheel is a prominent geometric feature in this region You cannot beat a really good nopsewheel, my Granny always used to say 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 Although not an expert on this type, I would doubt the position of your retracted nopsewheel. The hinge point is usually at the top of the strut, and the pic you show has the leg under load. With the aircraft airborne, the strut would extend. I would suggest that the retracted nopsewheel is at least in line with the length of the blue line from its top to the wheel centre, using that length as a radius, maybe a little further back allowing for leg extension. Yes, I did undergo a painless name change. My last name being Brand, my close friends have called me Brandy since I was about 5 years old. Probably not much creativity involved, but we don't get to choose our nicknames! Ian 1 1 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbudde Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 2 hours ago, keefr22 said: - whilst simulatenously dark pre-mamma robing the East: Hello Tony, you should be lucky, that these are no real mammatus clouds hanging over in front of you place. Otherwise you could get a bad surprise at the end of the horizon. Ask me how I know. Cheers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in Lincs Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 Nopsewheel. Another BM legend is born. At least he can't blame it on predictive Texas 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 58 minutes ago, Brandy said: Yes, I did undergo a painless name change. When I saw it I thought you'd had a rather more painful change....!! 🤣 Keith 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Ranger Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 24 minutes ago, bbudde said: Hello Tony, you should be lucky, that these are no real mammatus clouds hanging over in front of you place. Otherwise you could get a bad surprise at the end of the horizon. Ask me how I know. Cheers Yes, we here in Tornado Alley are very familiar with those mammatus clouds and what they may bring. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Ranger Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 2 minutes ago, Pete in Lincs said: Nopsewheel. Another BM legend is born. At least he can't blame it on predictive Texas Hey! We Texans are many things, but "predictive" we are not! "Overimaginative," maybe. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in Lincs Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 4 minutes ago, Space Ranger said: Hey! We Texans are many things, but "predictive" we are not! Sorry. Y'all 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Ranger Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 1 minute ago, Pete in Lincs said: Sorry. Y'all Y'all's apology accepted. :-) 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBaron Posted June 25, 2020 Author Share Posted June 25, 2020 3 hours ago, Pete in Lincs said: BTW, RePete? Must be the bubbles in this drink. Fizzy drink is wont to repete on one innit Pete? 4 hours ago, keefr22 said: Oddly enough, we could see a really impressive looking thick blanket of mammatus a fair way to the west of us as the sun went down - may have been the eastern edge of what you could see depending on the extent of the bank? Given our proximity Keith I've no doubt we regularly share the same cloud - or else we send you ours across on the West wind when we've gotten fed up with the rain! 3 hours ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said: You cannot beat a really good nopsewheel, my Granny always used to say 1 hour ago, Pete in Lincs said: Nopsewheel. Another BM legend is born. - and there's me thinking it was Wiltshire dialect! 😁 1 hour ago, bbudde said: Hello Tony, you should be lucky, that these are no real mammatus clouds hanging over in front of you place. Otherwise you could get a bad surprise at the end of the horizon. Ask me how I know. Go on then - how do you know Benedikt? 😄 1 hour ago, Space Ranger said: Yes, we here in Tornado Alley are very familiar with those mammatus clouds and what they may bring. From pictures I've seen you have truly continental scale weather systems Michael. Ours here in Ireland is more a case of the Atlantic throwing a strop and stomping off in high dudgeon across the edge of Europe.... 2 hours ago, Brandy said: Although not an expert on this type, I would doubt the position of your retracted nopsewheel. The hinge point is usually at the top of the strut, and the pic you show has the leg under load. With the aircraft airborne, the strut would extend. I would suggest that the retracted nopsewheel is at least in line with the length of the blue line from its top to the wheel centre, using that length as a radius, maybe a little further back allowing for leg extension. Thanks Ian - I'd harboured niggling doubts the ore I looked at today's attempt so appreicate the insight. This is one of those instances where the kind of engineering insight I lack can't be compensated for by visual observation alone. The quality of the scans in the manuals I have vary considerably and it's usually the most useful smaller location drawings in the top corners (showing the various parts in situ) that suffer the most dropout of detail as a consequence. I dragged the best of the scans into Illustrator earlier to trace a graphically clearer version: The numbered shaded areas consecutively: pivot point of radius rod (ie. where mounted on airframe) top of oleo leg pivot point of leg The pale green curve seems to delineate the internal clearance need by the various mechanisms rotating during retraction. Here's a grab of the nosewheel itself to compare: Knowing the wheel diameter accurately, it's probably not a bad idea to build a simplified version of the nosegear and actually use this as a way of finesssing the interior clearances in the next session. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbudde Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 (edited) 55 minutes ago, TheBaron said: Go on then - how do you know Benedikt? There was a little scary one here then with a full performance. Mammatus at its finest, a big double stocked shelf cloud, a nice wide range bow echo and a strong roll cloud: Shortly after this nice view of all this began here: And this 1 1/2 h earlier in the Ruhr valley. No Tornado, but enough to kill some people. The only time I packed my bag for several neccessary things during a storm here, when it should come to severe damage. Cheers Benedikt Edited June 25, 2020 by bbudde 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedB Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 I'm still here… and still completely lost (apart from the funnies). Reminds me of one of my favourite Larson cartoons: Larson_what_dogs_hear by Ced Bufton, on Flickr …only re-titled 'What Tony posts' and 'What Ced reads' 16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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