Sea Vixen FAW.1x2

[Space Ranger]

23 hours ago, TheBaron said:

If the wing has positive incidence, then the leading edge should be higher than the trailing edge with respect to the aircraft's center line.

 

Disregard. I just noticed a previous comment that the Sea Vixen has no incidence.

Edited February 16, 2020 by Space Ranger

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

1 hour ago, TheBaron said:

'Live and Let Dry'?

The Fly Who Loved Me (starring Hendie, obvs)

[TheBaron]

6 minutes ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

The Fly Who Loved Me (starring Hendie, obvs)

Don't forget Ced, aka: 'Thundertool', 'A View to a Drill'

[giemme]

No Time to Model?

 

 

Ciao

[Spookytooth]

Or for our older viewers" Live and drip dry."

 

Simon.

[CedB]

43 minutes ago, TheBaron said:

Don't forget Ced, aka: 'Thundertool', 'A View to a Drill'

Ah, Diamond Files are Forever  

[Space Ranger]

Gluefinger?

[Andwil]

Octoputty.

 

AW

[71chally]

2 hours ago, CedB said:

Ah, Diamond Files are Forever  

The Man With The Golden Pun.

[TheBaron]

Great bantz! 😄

Night all.

 

[Aardvark]

9 hours ago, TheBaron said:

Hope that's not a Vixen yon Greek lad's damaging though:

What a strange scriber for panel line!!!! And what a  unique technic  rescrybing panel line on this model!

😉😁😁

4 hours ago, Space Ranger said:

Rats! Now my cover has been blown. Yes, I am (or was!) a secret agent for M.B. (Ministry of Britmodeller) 6. Code name Bondo; James Bondo.

 

Strange, but in our file cabinet you passed as a 00X

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adventures_of_Captain_Wrongel

super agent:

It looks like we were misinformed and You really James Bondo....but were is 00X???

4 hours ago, TheBaron said:

I'm still not entirely convinced that you're really an art historian Serge.

Are you hinting that Aardvark is "an art critic in civilian clothes"

(C) (TM) specially abandoned on BM with mission learn all the secrets Sea Vixen???  Ahhh, probably now my cover has been blown, too!!!

😣

😁😁

 

B.R.

Serge

[Aardvark]

49 minutes ago, 71chally said:

The Man With The Golden Pun.

From Russia with early A-model.

(Horror/ Sci-fi )

😁😁

36 minutes ago, TheBaron said:

Great bantz! 😄

Night all.

 

 

😉😁

 

B.R.

Serge

 

 

[TheBaron]

12 hours ago, Aardvark said:

Are you hinting that Aardvark is "an art critic in civilian clothes"

(C) (TM) specially abandoned on BM with mission learn all the secrets Sea Vixen???  Ahhh, probably now my cover has been blown, too!!!

Sorry Serge but on the British side there was art critic Brian Sewell - a man who could kill at 50yds just by pronunciation of vowels.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IF7fJf3xH1A

 

Love that animation - give me Russian and E. European stuff over Disney (🤮) anyday.*

 

 

Been writing reports for the pass three weeks solid on top of usual work so finished off a load of first drafts earlier and decided that I'd earned an afternoon off ('Because you.re worth it / Maybe it's Maybelline' @etc.). Still some work to do in the studio such as backing this laptop up to an external drive so won't get into Fusion until later, however, before doing so just wanted to bang up some of the image-processing I'd gotten  done before bed last evening whilst on a roll.

 

Video into panoramas:

 

^{Original mage source: Navy Wings}

The original video was somewhat jerky/blurry in places so I did my best to suppress any 'softer' areas with unsharp masking. Bottom two panoramas composed from 7-8 frames.

 

Be aware that in the middle panorama, if you look closely at the uprights running along rib 0 there is an odd apex thing happening halfway along; this is due to way that the footage was shot by someone looking around whilst walking along the length of the bay with the camera not in a fixed orientation: the software obviously had a conniption fit chewing on the geometry in this section, hence the false 'pyramid'. Ideally the camera would have been held at a fixed angle pointing downwards for the whole length of the tracking shot to avoid this, so always be careful of such potentially-erroneous artefacts if using secondhand footage that you haven't shot yourself.

 

Simple procedure to make these though:

1. Select representative frames from section of video, making sure there's a minimum of 30% overlap at edge.
2. Using any reliable panorama stitching program - or even the 'Phototmerge' function in Photoshop - turn into panorama. (You'll need to incorporate geometric (un)distortion as part of this - 'Photomerge' has a function to do this automatically)
3. Unsharp mask results (gently!) and do any final colour correction.

 

With smartphone footage (as I assume the material above was shot on) you're going to have issues with autofocus and the kind of frame distortion caused by wide-angle lenses, but nothing that isn't manageable for modelling references. What I like about this is that whereas walkaround stills  - by the nature of lenses - have to focus upon selected smaller areas of the aircraft if you're to view detail at such proximity, this process gives an excellent synoptic view of wider areas so that you can see the overall relationship between such details, such as in the engine bay above where you can follow the continuity of features all the way from intake to exhaust tunnel.

 

Cognitively-speaking, whereas the original footage of the top two panoramas was shot by somebody standing on the aircraft looking down, the final result of this image is to produce a kind of drone's-eye view equivalent to being about 3 times higher up than this, yet one which preserves all of the original detail in the individual frames. No way a single image can produce that at the original height without mega-levels of fish-eye distortion. There is of course some residual distortion in these so not to be relied upon in orthographic terms, but a useful additional method of drawing additional value from video references for modelling purposes. (I've cut the panoramas posted here down to a fifth of their actual size as the original images they draw upon aren't mine to disseminate as my own work.)

 

Right. System down for a few hours for backup.

Tony

 

*that's not a coded message for 'I'm a sleeper agent' btw Serge.... 😉

 

 

 

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

51 minutes ago, TheBaron said:

 

*that's not a coded message for 'I'm a sleeper agent' btw Serge.... 😉

That’s just what they’d train you to say.  I’ve always had my suspicions about you, Tony (if that is your real name... Anatole?).  Your ability to recreate 1960s capitalist jets out of thin air has merely heightened my concerns.  
 

Watch him, fellas.  I think we have a wrong’un.

[TheBaron]

2 hours ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

That’s just what they’d train you to say.  I’ve always had my suspicions about you, Tony (if that is your real name... Anatole?).  Your ability to recreate 1960s capitalist jets out of thin air has merely heightened my concerns.  
 

Watch him, fellas.  I think we have a wrong’un.

Looks like I'm going to have to send somebody some more tea....

[perdu]

OK getting a bit itchy about somebody rumbling you Gospodin Tony?

 

S'OK you can trust me to remain in awe

 

The photo-stitchery is better than impressive, blimey I almost understood some of what you writ mate…

 

Almost a first in this tremendously scoped topic 

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

Yes, all joking aside how did you get those Vixen panoramas?  Yes, yea, I know you talked about stitching the bits together (ouch), but how did you capture the constituent bits in the first place?  I’ve seen that video on the Navy Wings FB page, and most excellent it and its cousins are, but I don’t recall that it was possible to download it - so how do we mere mortals make the transition from streamed video to still photograph?  
 

P.S. I still have plenty of your delicious tea, thank you.  Besides, I am {*cough*} completely incorruptible.  Apparently.  It sez ‘ere.

Edited February 17, 2020 by Ex-FAAWAFU

[TheBaron]

1 hour ago, perdu said:

The photo-stitchery is better than impressive, blimey I almost understood some of what you writ mate…

Ta me old Shockworker of the Brum Kolkhoz.

It's a handy old technique innit?

40 minutes ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

Yes, all joking aside how did you get those Vixen panoramas?  Yes, yea, I know you talked about stitching the bits together (ouch), but how did you capture the constituent bits in the first place?  I’ve seen that video on the Navy Wings FB page, and most excellent it and its cousins are, but I don’t recall that it was possible to download it - so how do we mere mortals make the transition from streamed video to still photograph?  

Crisp: there's a number of free online video converters such as:

 

https://en.savefrom.net/8/

and

https://www.savethevideo.com/

 

- that will let you paste the url of a particular Ytube video in to their page in order to download it as an mp4 or similar  to play with. They change from time-to-time in usefulness (as Ytube alter their coding to keep them out presumably) and one or two will try to sell you software with popups. but it's pretty common sense.  Certainly better than paying the tax-cheating-data-abusers who own said portal for the privilege of downloading others work for non-commercial use.

 

Once downloaded, if you don't have an NLE like  FinalCut or Premiere on your system, use something like iMovie on the Mac or any free video editor on PC that will let you export single frames. For the panoramas themselves, the more images you use, the more pristine the results. I don't know if that free Photoshop clone GIMP has an equivalent to the 'Photomerge' function if you don't have the former, but there's a number of free panorama stitching programs out there. Just be sure to use one that lets you deal with geometric distortion.

40 minutes ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

Besides, I am {*cough*} completely incorruptible.  Apparently.  It sez ‘ere.

Need a good lawyer guv?

 

[Aardvark]

On 2/17/2020 at 2:45 PM, TheBaron said:

Sorry Serge but on the British side there was art critic Brian Sewell - a man who could kill at 50yds just by pronunciation of vowels.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IF7fJf3xH1A

When I say:

On 2/17/2020 at 2:51 AM, Aardvark said:

"an art critic in civilian clothes"

(C) (TM)

I had a slightly different meaning.

In Russian there is an expression "искусствовед в штатском"

that translates as

"art critic in civilian clothes".... but as for my "critic" not correct, correct "expert".

This expression was ramp-country in the period of the USSR among creative group, artists and other citizens who, for some reason (tours, festivals, symposiums, etc.) traveled to the West (or any capitalist country) for some time.

A group of such people was included in order to counter the recruitment by Western intelligence agencies, an undercover KGB agent who received the ironic nickname among the people:

"an art critic(expert) in civilian clothes"

(C) (TM).....therefore 

"an art critic(expert) in civilian clothes" = agent KGB ( or  other intelligence services) undercover.

 

On 2/17/2020 at 2:45 PM, TheBaron said:

Love that animation - give me Russian and E. European stuff over Disney (🤮) anyday.*

Bad news for You 

our animation did  disappear after the collapse of the USSR, there were some convulsions before the mid-90s, but now they are no longer de facto.  Of course there is an animation like "Masha and the Bear", but this is an animation of the disney type, this is not the original animation.

What is the original animation for me?  As an example, this:

Or this sci-fi with subtitles:

Idiotic translate, but have what have:

....View  on West from East.....Steven King "Battlefield" 

film adaptations:

e.t.c.

....feel a different v.s.  disney !

On 2/17/2020 at 3:40 PM, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

(if that is your real name... Anatole?).

Anatoliy.....but authentic was Tolic ....or maybe

so that it’s absolutely worker-peasant - Tolyan.....

😁😁

 

B.R.

Serge

 

 

Edited February 19, 2020 by Aardvark

[Brandy]

On 2/17/2020 at 7:10 PM, TheBaron said:

Looks like I'm going to have to send somebody some more tea....

Or get the brolly out......

 

Ian

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

5 hours ago, Aardvark said:

 

Anatoliy... it’s absolutely worker-peasant -

 

Worker-peasant; that’s Tony to a T

[The Spadgent]

Mind suitably boggled. Bravo captain. 
 

Johnny

[GROWLER]

17 hours ago, Aardvark said:

Вид на запад с востока ..... Стивен Кинг "Поле битвы" 

экранизация:

и т.д

.... чувствую себя иначе, чем Дисней!

🤣🤣 👍

 

 

[TheBaron]

On 2/19/2020 at 1:30 AM, Aardvark said:

I had a slightly different meaning.

In Russian there is an expression "искусствовед в штатском"

that translates as

"art critic in civilian clothes".... but as for my "critic" not correct, correct "expert".

This expression was ramp-country in the period of the USSR among creative group, artists and other citizens who, for some reason (tours, festivals, symposiums, etc.) traveled to the West (or any capitalist country) for some time.

A group of such people was included in order to counter the recruitment by Western intelligence agencies, an undercover KGB agent who received the ironic nickname among the people:

"an art critic(expert) in civilian clothes"

(C) (TM).....therefore 

"an art critic(expert) in civilian clothes" = agent KGB ( or  other intelligence services) undercover.

That's genuinely fascinating Serge.

 

I believe I may have met a number of domestically-based such 'art critics' when visiting the Soviet Union in 1988 on a university trip, during our time in (then) Leningrad and Moscow. Being a fine art course, were taken round all the usual sights like the Hermitage as well as the cruiser Aurora and so forth, often encountering familiar faces who seemed to be in - but not apparently staying at - the same hotels as us (do all Ruassian hotels have the bar on the top floor?). It was pretty obvious they had some official security function and as we were a -shall we say - raucous group from Belfast, we invited them over to our table to join us for drinks on a couple of occasions, just to witness their abrupt exit from the bar (Usually replaced within minutes by another watcher)

 

Being the last years of communism there was an odd vibe to the place - Gorbachev had just closed down most of the 'official' street bars and kiosks selling vodka to cut down on drunkenness but there were always guys hanging around the hotel entrances who would taken you to the unofficial places - so long as you paid for the booze all night. Many were young men flogging off military kit like hats and belts to tourists and a couple we ended up boozing with showed us the head injuries they'd given themselves with hammers in order to  avoid getting sent to Afghanistan. Extraordinarily sad. Being a smoker at the time I came back with my lungs absolutely wrecked from chain-smoking the 'Sputnik' brand cigarettes....

 

Dug out some photos I'd taken. (still remember the incredible January sub-zero chill making my hands go numbs whilst taking this time exposure out the window of a Leningrad hotel):

Managed to slip away from the group one afternoon and head off alone around the backstreets of the city photographing graffiti:

Being over 30 years old the prints themselves are a bit 'historical' in quality so I must get round to rescanning the negs....

On 2/19/2020 at 1:30 AM, Aardvark said:

Bad news for You 

our animation did  disappear after the collapse of the USSR, there were some convulsions before the mid-90s, but now they are no longer de facto.

Film industry seemed to go the same way Serge no? - my generation in art college in the UK grew up on the likes of Tarkovsky and Klimov (usually bad VHS copies but the occasional joy of finding a small London cinema showing a print). Don't take from the above that I've got that unthinking Western disease of nostalgia for things USSR though: the  culture of the time  - both official and unofficial - is genuinely fascinating, but I harbour no illusions about the human cost.

Have you seen/read:

A lot of people in UK and US currently could use such a reminder about what happen when language is deliberately cut loose from reality...

On 2/19/2020 at 1:30 AM, Aardvark said:

Anatoliy.....but authentic was Tolic ....or maybe

so that it’s absolutely worker-peasant - Tolyan.....

Quite like 'Tolic'.

That can be my cover name....

 

Enjoy your writing Serge!

On 2/19/2020 at 6:10 AM, limeypilot said:

Or get the brolly out......

 

How you can drag Mary Poppins into this just beats me up, it really does. Is nothing sacred Ian? ☂️

On 2/19/2020 at 7:11 AM, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

Worker-peasant; that’s Tony to a T

We-ll,  you have seen the way I eat, so I guess there's no arguing with that Crisp!

On 2/19/2020 at 5:24 PM, The Spadgent said:

Mind suitably boggled. Bravo captain. 

Kind of you me old sausage. Like your new avatar pic btw - is that the new album cover?

 

Finding sufficient headpsace of late had proven a difficult undertaking: in the week since last posting anything here I must confess to encountering a mixture of mental burnout from the pressures of work alongside some frustrating problems with the software - of a kind that normally you'd just knuckle down and overcome but in this case, lacking the energy and perspective to resolve.

 

I won't bore you with the arcane details of the software processes involved but they were based upon:

1. Dimensionality issues with the software issues scaling up/down the aerofoil profiles - chord length would adjust fine but the profiles would always end up being too fat. Can I call wings fat now? Probably not. The profiles would always end up looking like Eamonn Holmes, let's leave it there...

2. I realized (belatedly) that creating a wing profile alone was going to store up problems for later in the timeline unless I also attended to the leading and trailing edge profiles as defining limits to the section.

 

The first point took me a couple of days to solve, locking the chord line in as part of the design right at the start as a defining dimension that could be duplicated in other elements as an editable feature (unfortunately most of the online examples of scaling in Fusion use simple geometric shapes and not complex curved geometries like wing profiles),  and also learning how to correlate image planes to an exact feature, rather than by defining them in relation to the origin.

 

The second point I solved by, well, drawing the wing outline:

Another reason for starting with building the plan view of the wing is the necessity of dimensioning it in those places that are going to have an aerofoil attached, so that you have numerical information to build their chord lines with>

(Those chord length values vaabove were adjusted later btw, so don't use as a scale reference.)

 

How can I be sure that the numbers I'm using below are correct? Accurate numerical dimensions for rib 4 (at the wingfold) in the maintenance manual give a datum point, from which to extrapolate missing values for other sections.

 

Despite the inaccuracies of many - from a visual-reference point of view - illustrations, the manuals do contain some highly useful drawings regarding main structure in such areas:

The aerofoil profiles you can see me building on the laptop screen, from L-R equate to: rib 13, wing fence, wing fold, rib 2, and rib 1.

 

A main reason for getting the wing profile done prior to the aerofoil profiles as to provide an accurate means of locating the latter in space in relation to the former, taking in to account the wing dihedral outboard of rib 2.

Front view:

 

 

 

This then let me use a 'move-to point' operation on each aerofoil in turn, in order to ensure that each profile was accurately located along the trailing edge:

I need to come back nexgt time and finesse the intersection of the tip of each aerofoil with the leading edge of the wing in a similar manner, but this is enough for today:

 

A closer view from the front and you can perhaps just make out the two differing profiles at the wing fence junction:

The outboard one of course needs to have that droop to the camber that we discussed a page or two back. Note also that the rightmost profile (equating to rib 1) would extend slap-bang out through the front of the intake if let in this state: later it will be cannibalized to make the wing section as far as the intake lip, and then a different component built for the the intake surround and interior duct itself.

 

Another reason for taking so long to reduced the chord line / aerofoil profiles to their basic essence in design terms is that this same feature also now gives me the physical separation between top and underside of the wing that I will need later on to turn into separate solids, like so:

The leading and trailing edges of the wing aren't flush with the overall profile in these renders as they haven't been tied in to the design yet (in order to provide the necessary front and back extents for the lofted surface), hence the 'waviness' in places from not being constrained front and back along thosee edges:

That will be my next job of course.

Not until I've produced a full mated loft of both those top and bottom sections, and had a chance to eyeball them as renders, will I be completely sure that I'm not in error in any of the above dimensions, but this is at least a significant step forwards today.

Thanks for looking in.

Tony

 

 

 

 

 

[qn30jEkPz7]

Good idea on fixing one dimension for scaling - I have been struggling with that and reverted to adjusting sections in Inkscape and then importing rather than doing it in Fusion