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Ex-FAAWAFU

Sink the Bismarck! HMS Ark Royal, 26 May 1941

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34 minutes ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

Here you can see Tetra’s (unfinished, and skewed) on the right and NorthStar on the left.

"Here you can see" sounds a bit of an exageration, given how small those things are! I wonder if there will be an end to the amazement in this build.... probably when it'll be completed...

 

:worthy:

 

Ciao

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I took one look at the Very Fire instructions and went with the North Star Vickers. About half of them are done. I left off the shields though for the early war ship. Maybe added in the Oct 40 Liverpool stay? The devil’s in the details 

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Posted (edited)

I agree re shields early on - and you’ve given me cold feet now; I went back & checked the ref photo on which I based my decision to fit shields, and I am less sure than I was...  it might just be the angle.  

Ark Royal, Mediterranean November 1940, as seen from HMS Kelvin

 

It’s also pretty clear that they dropped the ‘walls’ of the MG sponsons all the time at sea.  The walls are an example of what I was talking about a few days ago, where photos taken when entering / leaving harbour don’t show the ship as she normally looked at sea.  
 

Walls up (pre-war, and I think no shields) - on a visit to Liverpool, judging by some other photos of that visit and the tugs. 

Ark Royal starboard quarter

 

Walls down (even in harbour, this time!) - not my spelling of Gib.  And almost certainly no shields either, dammit!

Ark at Gibraltar, 1941


No matter re the shields: as I said before this was a test run to assess which of Tetra / NorthStar to use.  I think I’ll probably end up with a base of NorthStar with some added Tetra refinements!


[Incidentally, this bottom photo gives more credence to the “repainting only where the ship’s company could reach” theory - look at the obvious line on the starboard quarter.]

Edited by Ex-FAAWAFU

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my old xo would of had us over the side doing touch ups no matter what

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Posted (edited)

Oh, mine too - it’s what XOs do (& what COs insist XOs do).  But it’s a question of what was possible.  
 

I’ve posted this picture before; it’s the weird one where it purports to show her under way, but where the “sea” is obviously (and not very subtly) painted on.  The horizon doesn’t even line up - but the top part is clearly a photograph.

 

I post it again to illustrate the kind of hi-tech paint staging we’re talking about.  Look carefully at the port quarter and you’ll see a Pussers’ Plank lashed on with a couple of lengths of gash rope; perfect for a couple of ODs and a paint pot (which is doubtless exactly what it was for).  Now try and work out how you’d pull that in towards the underneath of the round-down, but without tipping the said two ODs into the oggin...

Ark Royal stern detail (?painting?)

 

Anyway, even the most zealous XO wouldn't have his lads over the side painting while at sea - trebly so in wartime.  

Edited by Ex-FAAWAFU

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8 minutes ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

Now try and work out how you’d pull that in towards the underneath of the round-down, but without tipping the said two ODs into the oggin...

That's why there's nobody on it! 😁👍

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Were the vertical and horizontal 'strakes' (for want of a better term)  some sort of guide rail for painters trestles?

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Being an ex Seaman I've been drawn back to that photo, sad I know but... 

1 hour ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

perfect for a couple of ODs and a paint pot (which is doubtless exactly what it was for).  

I'm not convinced the plank stage was being used for painting in this case, unless it was for underneath the walkway, due to the way its rigged, athwartships as opposed to fore and aft. More likely for some other maintenance task.

Quite unimportant really but something that caught my eye. 

Roger. 

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Posted (edited)

@gunzo, I think the vertical ones yes, but the horizontal ones are plates and/or overlaps for strength in the welded round-down structure.
 

The round-down was to do with minimising turbulence over the deck, but the whole point of the overhang was to get maximum flight deck size for a given displacement / length (because of Washington Treaty limits).  The large proportion of welds instead of rivets (pretty advanced for a big ship of her era) was also to keep weight down.

 

Ark 5 had similar vertical rails under her ramp (just about visible here in the shadows) for exactly the same purpose.

Ark Royal

 

Edited by Ex-FAAWAFU

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2 minutes ago, Roger Newsome said:

Being an ex Seaman I've been drawn back to that photo, sad I know but... 

I'm not convinced the plank stage was being used for painting in this case, unless it was for underneath the walkway, due to the way its rigged, athwartships as opposed to fore and aft. More likely for some other maintenance task.

Quite unimportant really but something that caught my eye. 

Roger. 

You could easily be right - it’s certainly at the “Stoker’s Dhoby Hitch” end of the seaman’s professional scale.  My thinking was merely that it’s athwartships because that’s the only way you could get the rope through the walkway above.  Who knows?

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I’ve painted, paint chipped and weathered the hull already. For a summer of 40 I went with moderate paint chipping overall concentrating on upper hull, under overhangs and along the waterline. A lot of paint chipping was  approaching the look of a lousy weathering job on the model. I’m going for the look before the lower hull was repainted. Your talk about walls has me reconsidering how I want to display these items realistically for the time period I’m doing. I’ve been on vacation so I have had too much time to think about all this.

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Also I just noticed the ready ammo boxes between the Vickers in the top photo in post 803 look like they have angled tops. The Very Fire ones are flat.

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57 minutes ago, dhogue said:

Also I just noticed the ready ammo boxes between the Vickers in the top photo in post 803 look like they have angled tops. The Very Fire ones are flat.

On the other hand, the RU lockers aft of the Vickers in the bottom (Gib) photo in #803 look flat. Up to you!  
 

On the paint chipping, my working plan - and I stress that I have not tested this idea yet - is to use something like THIS.  I like the random look it generates, and I’ve seen some excellent effects using one.  
 

Too much time to think about these things on vacation is definitely a 2-edged sword...

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That’s how I did it. I did a Western Desert Matilda tank diorama a few years ago and used this technique to wear the desert camo back to the original green. I used an old brush with cutdown bristles.    I have more experience with brushes than sponges and felt I had more control. The author of the article said it was tedious, he should try doing it across the vast expanse of the Ark Royal. Ship models is a whole different experience. I got my ship weathering tips from the armor guys though.

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3 hours ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

On the paint chipping, my working plan - and I stress that I have not tested this idea yet - is to use something like THIS.  I like the random look it generates, and I’ve seen some excellent effects using one.  
 

I've been following and looking at the photo's of worn paintwork for when I do my kit of the Ark (after Hood's finished) but wondered - what colour would the chipped areas be?

Back to rusted/worn steel, primer or a darker or lighter shade of grey?

Colour photo's of well worn WW2 warships are hide to find - any thoughts? 

 

Cheers

 

Nick

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Posted (edited)

There will be general weathering, salt stains, rust streaks around hawse pipes, and that sort of thing - but the main “mottled” areas are not that (in my opinion); I believe they are 507C (Mediterranean Grey) coats and 507A (Home Fleet Grey) coats wearing and showing through each other in a fairly complicated mixture.  She spent periods of her life in each scheme, and in some places the paint seems to have been abraded away by wind, waves, salt etc.  There was quite a lot of discussion of this subject early on in this build, including contributions by people who know a great deal more than me about both WW2 RN paint in general and Ark in particular.

 

 

Anyway, we’re bloomin’ ages - months - away from that kind of malarkey yet.  Today’s offering is a hymn of praise in support of PE.   Yes, it can be a pain in the behind, test your patience, feed the carpet monster, and all that - and yes, objectively it’s pretty bonkers that a single Pom-Pom mounting about 1.5cm across has taken about 5 hours of modelling time to finish...

 

But the results are worth it.  I promised that I’d build one of Merit’s Pom-Poms (including some Merit PE, no less) to show you what comes in the box, so here it is.

49615133708_4fee310669_b.jpg

49615651256_d873d1284a_b.jpg 49615651261_1f6198dea1_b.jpg


Bit of a difference, eh?

 

More later in the week - I never did get very far tonight with the 4.5” mounting, but that will be next.

 

Crisp

Edited by Ex-FAAWAFU

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Looks about the same as Trumpy's offerings in their Kent kit. Three bits of plastic with two PE sides.

Talking pom-poms, does anyone have pics/details of the shield fitted to them (both quad and octo if possible) 

Ta ever so

Tom

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Very nice Pom-Poms Crisp - and tiny! Great stuff :) 

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Identical to the Trumpy Kent, I imagine - judging by the (*cough*) slight similarity between Trumpy & Merit Swordfish (they’re identical in every way except the colour of the styrene).

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I think this is the last of the prototype weapons - this time a 4.5” turret.  Tetra, as ever, add quite a lot of detail here, but much of it will be hidden inside the gunshield.  For now, therefore, the mounting etc. will remain detached from the shield, until I’ve got some paint on it.

 

Here’s the mounting itself:

49623618203_3469576d84_b.jpg

 

...and again a bit closer in:

49624133756_9211a79d08_b.jpg

 

From behind with the shield dry fitted:

49624133856_ae565fc6e9_b.jpg

 

Side on:

49624403262_982532343a_b.jpg

 

...and head on:

49623618093_b2ce2dfc26_b.jpg

 

Pretty happy with that.  Several of these prototypes and small pieces are coming home with me to get some primer.

 

Next week I think back to the bridge to finish that off.

 

More soon

 

Crisp

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Spoiler

 

I wonder, would the interior of the gun shield be painted white? That's a heavy duty cutting block

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More nice tiny stuff Crisp - pity it'll be covered but we know it's there :) 

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4 hours ago, dhogue said:
  Reveal hidden contents

 

I wonder, would the interior of the gun shield be painted white? That's a heavy duty cutting block

The cutting block was a sample left over from some building project (before my time) at work.  It sat in my office for months, until I realised that it’s ideal for this purpose.  No bit of pesky brass is going to mess with that boy!

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The weekend’s very brief - but important - contribution; some Alclad black primer for some recent brass, and some Tamiya white rattle can primer for the inside of the 4.5” turret

49635619783_b394a6cf69_b.jpg

 

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