hendie Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 3 hours ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said: and you can now probably see more clearly the size compromises discussed above couldn't you cut them some amidships somewhere and add a plug to gain the necessary length? good grief! Did I just use a Floaty word? Did I get the context right ? 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted November 26, 2019 Author Share Posted November 26, 2019 7 hours ago, hendie said: Did I just use a Floaty word? I believe your use of “plug” was broadly correct, yes. I could, but there are (at least) 2 reasons why I probably won’t. One is the fact that, though these differences might look significant in blown-up photos, in the big scheme of things they (probably) won’t. The other is that the basic Merit hulls only really look good when transformed by Tetra or WEM brass. And if you change the dimensions of the styrene hulls, the brass will no longer fit. Even the purist in me doesn’t go for that solution, because it’s not just about length; the hull profile (taper, bow and stern shape, etc.) is much more of an issue, and of course yer plug wouldn’t really address that. Still thinking about this and what to do. Crisp 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritag Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 (edited) I promise not to fixate on the gorgeous 32’ cutter being fractionally small I dunno how you can keep producing such consistently excellent results from all that brass etch; I think I’d need at least 3 sets of everything to allow for c*ck ups, tantrums and losses to the carpet monster. Even then I think my eyes would have aged 20 years more then the rest of me; and my hands would have begun a terminal trembling. Edited November 29, 2019 by Fritag 4 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry1954 Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 Glad to see much excellent boaty stuff has continued during my whistlestop trip to Strasbourg and back. Just off the ferry and sitting with a coffee waiting to have a boaty day in Portsmouth Dockyard. The current R09 is looking splendid alongside and quite enormous. First time I have see either of the new carriers in the flesh. A very nice day ahead for me! Terry 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted November 29, 2019 Author Share Posted November 29, 2019 Hmmm. My bank manager should be worried. Last night I visited a friend who is about a year into a monster project to turn the Academy Warspite into Barham; much more work than a non-Battleship man like me had realised. He too was dissatisfied with the boats (though they were way, way better than the Merit offerings), but rather than faff about he went straight to Shapeways for replacements. So now I have seen them, and I have to say they look utterly gorgeous... It is hard to deny that I am wavering! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xffw45343tg Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 16 minutes ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said: he went straight to Shapeways for replacements... It is hard to deny that I am wavering! Time to invest in your own CAD software and 3D printer? I wonder what the payback is for a printer of sufficient resolution to meet your needs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntPhillips Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 The Anatomy of the Ship book on HMS Victorious has a couple of pages dedicated to a set of line drawings for Victorious' sea boats, if any one would like a scanned copy I'm sure I can arrange it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted November 29, 2019 Author Share Posted November 29, 2019 @Kirk I am already strongly considering getting a 3D printer (thanks to that nice Mr @hendie!). To get my design skills to the level of these boats will, however, take me a long time - and keep in mind that there are numerous different types, each of which will require its own CAD design. I don’t mind this build taking a while, but there are limits! @AntPhillips thank you; I have a copy of that book myself. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xffw45343tg Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 52 minutes ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said: there are numerous different types, each of which will require its own CAD design. My understanding is that they pretty much all print "STL" files (=description of layers) and if that is true, you can standardising on learning 1 CAD package and let the file format converters do the hard work. I dabble in AutoCAD but would have to say that whilst it is immensely powerful, the learning curve is pretty steep. The other thing against you here is your choice of subjects; both ships and aircraft have a common habit of being riddled with curves. If you want to do something quickly with CAD, you want it to be made primarily of rectangles or at worst cylinders. My dad used to design model yachts (Marbleheads & 10-Raters mostly) so I appreciate that it's all about "lofting" sections along the hull. Not something they put in the early chapters of "CAD for Dummies". But, if you can draw it, these marvellous printers seem to be able to print it and the fundamental drawing skill is the same as for scratch building - i.e. break everything down into its constituent simple solids and file off anything that sticks out too much. I suspect if you do go down this route Crisp, within a few weeks you'll be producing your own PE and decal artwork too... Good luck. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 1 hour ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said: I am already strongly considering getting a 3D printer (thanks to that nice Mr @hendie!). To get my design skills to the level of these boats will, however, take me a long time Likewise. It's not the printer nor the resin, it's the time you (I) need to get the hang of 3D modelling that is stopping me right now. Can't we just convince @hendie to do that for us? Ciao 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted November 29, 2019 Author Share Posted November 29, 2019 @Kirk you misunderstand me (my fault); I mean that there are numerous different types of boat that I want for this build. For the CAD I’ve actually started to learn Blender (powerful, free, but hideous learning curve!), but I reckon that it’ll take me a good few months before I’m trying anything complicated. I’m teasing @hendie, but it really was him who tipped me over the edge, because of his Wessex tail wheel and rotor head stuff (see his epic Fly Wessex build), and because he pointed me towards a 3D printer that’s kind of affordable: just over £200 is not cheap, but it’s doable, and these things used to be well out of my price range. I agree that the essential thought processes are not unlike scratch building (breaking down into manageable parts), and I am already excited by some of the possibilities. Sea King weapon carriers... Sea King rotor head... details for Ark’s flag deck, bridge, sounding machine... But the boats are likely to be behind my capabilities for many months yet, and I don’t want this build to stagger to a halt (I’ve already got several others like that, without any CAD-learning malarkey!). 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendie Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 I see my moniker getting tossed around here like I'm a person of knowledge and integrity. Blender huh? I completely agree with the "hideous learning curve" statement. I tried it once a few years back but gave up very quickly. It's a tremendously powerful piece of software but I just couldn't get to grips with it at all. and I don't know why you're all blaming me... if I remember correctly it was Ced that forced me into buying one 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modelholic Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 You're all talking wayyyy out of my ball park with all this 3D printer stuff and CAD and I thought 'Blender' was some sort of dating site! Tom 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xffw45343tg Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 I can't really comment on Blender (my stepson tried it at the point I was getting into AutoCAD and whenever I looked in on him, it was so different in approach/philosophy /UI that I ran away fast), but the most straightforward way to approach a ship hull is to start with (by tracing if possible) the half sections at a series of intervals bow to stern, (regular is OK, but closer together at areas of greater change if available) then mirroring them to give a skeleton. These are the "lofted" along the XZ axis (assuming Y to be where you'd draw beam dimensions) to create a surface describing the outside of the hull. You can't print this since it has zero thickness, so you "thicken" the surface inwards to make a solid. The tricky bit is (almost always) finding the commands that achieve each of these steps. What printer did you go for in the end @Hendie? If I ever discover spare cash again, one of these is high on my wish list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard E Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 6 hours ago, hendie said: and I don't know why you're all blaming me... if I remember correctly it was Ced that forced me into buying one When all else fails the "a bigger boy did it and ran away defence" nearly always works. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted November 30, 2019 Author Share Posted November 30, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, Kirk said: What printer did you go for in the end @Hendie? If I ever discover spare cash again, one of these is high on my wish list. https://parg.co/F1c [Shortened retrospectively following Giorgios’s excellent advice below] [Only hendie’s in in American. I expect there’s a better way to display a ridiculously long URL like that in here, but on my phone it defeats me] Edited November 30, 2019 by Ex-FAAWAFU 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 15 minutes ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said: I expect there’s a better way to display a ridiculously long URL like that in here, but on my phone it defeats me] You have to download an app called Shorteners, that's all you need. HTH Ciao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modelholic Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 Bloody Hell. Now it's Shortners! Tom 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted November 30, 2019 Author Share Posted November 30, 2019 (edited) Deleted as double post Edited November 30, 2019 by Ex-FAAWAFU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted December 1, 2019 Author Share Posted December 1, 2019 (edited) It will surprise no-one who has read the direction of travel in the past few posts to learn that I have succumbed & bought... no, Hendie, not the printer!... some replacement boats from Shapeways. Seeing my mate’s examples from his Barham build finally tipped the balance for me. They arrived yesterday and I’ve carefully cleaned them today & given them some time in the sunlight in case of any remaining bits of un-cured resin; now they have a coat of Tamiya primer [I am a bit wary of using my go-to Alclad black on 3D prints]. So, from left to right: rear rank: 2 x 14’ dinghy 2 x 27’ whaler 2 x 32’ cutter 2 x 32’ motor cutter 2 x 32’ fast motor boat Front rank, L to R: 2 x 36’ motor pinnace 2 x 32’ fast seaplane tender 1 x 32’ Admiral’s barge Oh, and some fairleads. Here the same from the other side. The detail is pretty remarkable; with careful painting these could look excellent. It may also be that I can enhance them yet further with some of the PE (masts, for instance), but even as they are they are a major step up. Look, for instance, in the first picture at the engine casing in the pinnaces, and the internal details and ladders in the seaplane tenders. Very happy. I have one more set on the way which will give me a full Ark boat outfit (2 further 36’ pinnaces, 2 25’ fast motor boats and 2 16’ motor boats). In some cases I have opted for prints which include the cradles (the group of 5 here do, but hard to see in these pics), because even the Tetra set only provides sufficient brass cradles for the boats provided by Merit - and Merit miss some out altogether so I wouldn’t have enough. Tomorrow when I get to London I’ll do some comparison shots. There is part of me that is very sad to jettison the corrective brass stuff I did last week - but that was only making the best bodge compromise out of Merit’s hulls; this (as you will see when I compare) gives me a set of proper boats. No amount of adaptation, Milliput and squinting could get this level of consistency. More soon Crisp Edited December 1, 2019 by Ex-FAAWAFU 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBaron Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 On 11/29/2019 at 1:53 PM, Ex-FAAWAFU said: To get my design skills to the level of these boats will, however, take me a long time Tsk tsk. I've seen your drawings of Fearless. Adding a third dimension ain't the mountain you think it to be if you understand the original as well as you do. Edit: we must have posted simultaneously - that new mini-fleet looks superb! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xffw45343tg Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 Wow - those Shapeships look amazing! You'll need some oars though.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendie Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 2 hours ago, Kirk said: You'll need some oars though.... shouldn't he be whittling those from some whalebone or something? 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted December 2, 2019 Author Share Posted December 2, 2019 (edited) You should see the size of the bottle this is going to end up in... Edited December 2, 2019 by Ex-FAAWAFU 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArnoldAmbrose Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 12 minutes ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said: You should see the size of the bottle this is going to end up in... Gidday Ex, After drinking the contents first, no doubt.🤪 Regards, Jeff. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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